December Solstice 2014

With the Earth roughly 28 million miles away from its orbital position where the North/South polar surface locations are midway between the circle of illumination, we dwell again on the surface rotation which brings those surface points to their Solstice destinations.

What carries the North and South poles around in a circle where they alternatively face away from the central Sun or face the Sun directly can be attributed to the specific way the Earth moves through space and turns at the same time.

The problem is always caused by the celestial sphere bunch dumping everything into the daily rotation of the Earth via stellar circumpolar motion thereby giving no room for the the surface rotation as a function of the Earth's orbital motion a space to breath for observers even with imaging in support.

On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 9:53:16 AM UTC-8, oriel36 wrote:

What carries the North and South poles around in a circle where they alternatively face away from the central Sun or face the Sun directly can be attributed to the specific way the Earth moves through space and turns at the same time.

Gerald, the Earth only APPEARS to turn to the central Sun throughout the year. We know the Earth doesn't really turn because the north pole, for example, constantly points very near Polaris ALL the time, unwavering!

Apparent motion is observed just about everywhere we look is the sky. It is a big reason how and why Copernicus figured out that it was the Sun at the center of the solar system and not the Earth! But still, never forget, this turning of the Earth wrt the Sun throughout the year is only APPARENT!

On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 9:23:45 PM UTC, palsing wrote:
On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 9:53:16 AM UTC-8, oriel36 wrote:

What carries the North and South poles around in a circle where they alternatively face away from the central Sun or face the Sun directly can be attributed to the specific way the Earth moves through space and turns at the same time.

Gerald, the Earth only APPEARS to turn to the central Sun throughout the year. We know the Earth doesn't really turn because the north pole, for example, constantly points very near Polaris ALL the time, unwavering!


I assure you, at the North and South poles they experience a single day and night cycle and as you should know it takes a surface rotation to the central Sun to accomplish that experience.

What you do is split the two day/night cycles and treat each cycle separately by way of dynamics, in the case of daily rotation it involves the diminishing of latitudinal speeds to zero at the poles from maximum at the Equator thereby leaving the polar surface coordinates as a means to explain why those location turn once to the central Sun across a single orbital circuit.

You can't have it both ways by having Northern orientation fixed to Polaris and then dither around trying to make the Earth tilt towards and away from the Sun.


Apparent motion is observed just about everywhere we look is the sky. It is a big reason how and why Copernicus figured out that it was the Sun at the center of the solar system and not the Earth! But still, never forget, this turning of the Earth wrt the Sun throughout the year is only APPARENT!

Stop this capitalization business as it never works no more than killfiling does. The surface rotation as a function of the orbital motion of the Earth is actual and either by direct observation or by analogy it presents a clear explanation for why the seasons vary and why the reason the natural noon cycles vary is due to the surface rotation where as the Earth speed varies as it moves through space then so does that surface rotation respond unevenly. This allows for the assumption that daily rotation is constant leaving the orbital surface rotation to account for the time difference with each sweep of the Sun across a meridian.

Use the orientation to Polaris effectively by asking one of the kids at your star party to walk/orbit some object representing the Sun and explain to them that every part of their body will face the central object/Sun hence it has to be treated as a surface rotation quite separate to and in addition to daily rotation. They will thank you for introducing them to the dual rotations of the Earth to the central Sun while you still explain why the stars appear to rotate around Polaris.

On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 1:49:38 PM UTC-8, oriel36 wrote:
On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 9:23:45 PM UTC, palsing wrote:
On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 9:53:16 AM UTC-8, oriel36 wrote:

What carries the North and South poles around in a circle where they alternatively face away from the central Sun or face the Sun directly can be attributed to the specific way the Earth moves through space and turns at the same time.

Gerald, the Earth only APPEARS to turn to the central Sun throughout the year. We know the Earth doesn't really turn because the north pole, for example, constantly points very near Polaris ALL the time, unwavering!


I assure you, at the North and South poles they experience a single day and night cycle and as you should know it takes a surface rotation to the central Sun to accomplish that experience.

Sure... but as is obvious to almost everyone, the Earth's axis has not turned wrt to the fixed stars over the course of that year.

What you do is split the two day/night cycles and treat each cycle separately by way of dynamics, in the case of daily rotation it involves the diminishing of latitudinal speeds to zero at the poles from maximum at the Equator thereby leaving the polar surface coordinates as a means to explain why those location turn once to the central Sun across a single orbital circuit.

On Thursday, December 4, 2014 12:05:09 AM UTC, palsing wrote:
On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 1:49:38 PM UTC-8, oriel36 wrote:
On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 9:23:45 PM UTC, palsing wrote:
On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 9:53:16 AM UTC-8, oriel36 wrote:

What carries the North and South poles around in a circle where they alternatively face away from the central Sun or face the Sun directly can be attributed to the specific way the Earth moves through space and turns at the same time.

Gerald, the Earth only APPEARS to turn to the central Sun throughout the year. We know the Earth doesn't really turn because the north pole, for example, constantly points very near Polaris ALL the time, unwavering!


I assure you, at the North and South poles they experience a single day and night cycle and as you should know it takes a surface rotation to the central Sun to accomplish that experience.

Sure... but as is obvious to almost everyone, the Earth's axis has not turned wrt to the fixed stars over the course of that year.


The real difficulty most would have is that all motions are treated locally and to the central Sun for we experience the daily rotation locally as day and night and the orbital surface rotation locally as the seasons,or,in the absence of daily rotation at the North/South poles, as a separate and single day/night cycle taking a year and an orbital circuit to complete.

Were observers interested enough they would extract themselves from stellar circumpolar motion entirely and focus on the two cycles which govern their lives whether it is the daily cycle where day turns to night using daily rotation or temperature rises and falls in response to one rotation or to the seasonal cycle of summer and winter where hemispheres respond to the annual rotation of the planet's surface as it turns to the Sun while moving through space.





What you do is split the two day/night cycles and treat each cycle separately by way of dynamics, in the case of daily rotation it involves the diminishing of latitudinal speeds to zero at the poles from maximum at the Equator thereby leaving the polar surface coordinates as a means to explain why those location turn once to the central Sun across a single orbital circuit.

Correction, the poles only appear to turn to the central Sun, since the north pole continuously points to Polaris...


The experience of a single day/night cycle at the poles is actual as is its rotational cause but instead of trying to gauge a solution by appealing to Polaris, it is easier to turn to the space telescope and look at the behavior of a planet that is close by, in this case Uranus and its unique traits..

The development of Arctic sea ice is actual so all these guys making a fuss about planetary temperatures have to assign dynamical cause for its seasonal appearance and disappearance. The time where everyone could just say the Earth tilts to the Sun in summer and away from the Sun in winter are over for just as frost and ice generally form at a local level as the Earth turns daily into the orbital shadow then this is writ large at the polar latitudes where large chunks of the Earth turn into the orbital shadow for considerable periods of time. Sure it is more complicated than that but the drift in that direction should be much easier than it presently is.




Apparent motion is observed just about everywhere we look is the sky. It is a big reason how and why Copernicus figured out that it was the Sun at the center of the solar system and not the Earth! But still, never forget, this turning of the Earth wrt the Sun throughout the year is only APPARENT!

Stop this capitalization business as it never works no more than killfiling does.

My capitalization is only meant to emphasize, not to 'yell'...

Use the orientation to Polaris effectively by asking one of the kids at your star party to walk/orbit some object representing the Sun and explain to them that every part of their body will face the central object/Sun...

Exactly correct...

... hence it has to be treated as a surface rotation quite separate to and in addition to daily rotation.

Indeed... but there was no actual rotation, only an apparent rotation wrt the central object. Those brooms they were riding did not rotate to anything EXCEPT the central object.

They will thank you for introducing them to the dual rotations of the Earth to the central Sun while you still explain why the stars appear to rotate around Polaris.

They already have. Hundreds and hundreds of them. But I don't explain it the same way you do because I understand that the yearly single day/night cycle experienced at either pole is due to an apparent turning of the Earth and not an actual turning. I can be no other way!

As the Earth moves through space the entire planet turns rather than just focusing in on the poles themselves hence a more complicated picture when deal with the combination of dual rotations at lower latitudes towards the Equator in terms of variations in temperatures daily and annually or daylight/darkness asymmetries. The example above of daily frost as opposed to Arctic sea ice development may be enough to draw attention to dual surface rotations for the massive development of ice at the North pole is worthy of an actual dynamic hence the surface rotation is actual and not apparent.

On Thursday, December 4, 2014 12:21:55 AM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:

The real difficulty most would have is that all motions are treated locally
and to the central Sun for we experience the daily rotation locally as day
and night and the orbital surface rotation locally as the seasons,or,in the
absence of daily rotation at the North/South poles, as a separate and single
day/night cycle taking a year and an orbital circuit to complete.

Were observers interested enough they would extract themselves from stellar
circumpolar motion entirely and focus on the two cycles which govern their
lives whether it is the daily cycle where day turns to night using daily
rotation or temperature rises and falls in response to one rotation or to the
seasonal cycle of summer and winter where hemispheres respond to the annual
rotation of the planet's surface as it turns to the Sun while moving through
space.

Focusing on the "cycles that govern" our lives, and treating motion locally, instead of referring it to the stars, makes doing calculations of precise motion more complicated. One has to add in, and subtract back out again, the Equation of Time for no good reason.

That's why observers are not "interested enough". Making calculations simpler is the test that distinguishes simple motions from compound ones.

John Savard

As the Earth moves through space and to its orbital location where the Solstice occurs within the next 7 days,the entire planet will have turned just enough to bring the Northern polar location to orbital noon where that latitude will exist mid-way between the circle of illumination.

Are people prepared to accept the idea that the circle of illumination pivots off the Equator rather than pick up the easy to understand concept that the Earth has two separate surface rotations to the central Sun ?. I would generally not press on with something if it were not worthy of consideration yet what must it take to present something as hideous as a pivoting terminator -

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...easonearth.png

The only means by which a planet's climate can truly change is via variations in its inclination relative to the line drawn by the circle of illumination and the orbital motion of the Earth yet there, in the middle of the most read reference website in the world, is an intellectual abomination.

This is far removed from the social political 'climate change' nonsense plaguing the great terrestrial science of climate as a facet within astronomy so the price of ignoring the additional surface rotation as a function of the Earth's orbital motion is incredibly high.

On Sunday, December 14, 2014 7:06:06 AM UTC-8, oriel36 wrote:
As the Earth moves through space and to its orbital location where the Solstice occurs within the next 7 days,the entire planet will have turned just enough to bring the Northern polar location to orbital noon where that latitude will exist mid-way between the circle of illumination.


That should have been Southern polar noon rather than Northern as the surface location is at its maximum distance either side of the circle of illumination as a physical property of the orbital orientation of the Earth.

With the people of the planet ideologically buried in a halo of carbon dioxide as the driver of planetary temperatures and the dour conclusions attached to that notion, the genuine antidote for this ideological tragedy dumped on humanity comes from this astronomical quarter in the form of a new surface rotation to look at and quite separate from daily rotation.

On Sunday, December 14, 2014 7:06:06 AM UTC-8, oriel36 wrote:

As the Earth moves through space and to its orbital location where the Solstice occurs within the next 7 days,the entire planet will have turned just enough to bring the Northern polar location to orbital noon where that latitude will exist mid-way between the circle of illumination.

That should actually be... "As the Earth moves through space and to its orbital location where the Solstice occurs within the next 7 days, the entire planet will have MOVED ALONG ITS ORBITAL PATH JUST ENOUGH to bring the SOUTHERN polar location to orbital noon"... since the Earth is only APPARENTLY turning wrt the Sun.



Are people prepared to accept the idea that the circle of illumination pivots off the Equator rather than pick up the easy to understand concept that the Earth has two separate surface rotations to the central Sun ?. I would generally not press on with something if it were not worthy of consideration yet what must it take to present something as hideous as a pivoting terminator -

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...easonearth.png

The only means by which a planet's climate can truly change is via variations in its inclination relative to the line drawn by the circle of illumination and the orbital motion of the Earth yet there, in the middle of the most read reference website in the world, is an intellectual abomination.

This is far removed from the social political 'climate change' nonsense plaguing the great terrestrial science of climate as a facet within astronomy so the price of ignoring the additional surface rotation as a function of the Earth's orbital motion is incredibly high.

On Sunday, December 14, 2014 11:14:49 AM UTC-8, palsing wrote:
On Sunday, December 14, 2014 7:06:06 AM UTC-8, oriel36 wrote:

As the Earth moves through space and to its orbital location where the Solstice occurs within the next 7 days,the entire planet will have turned just enough to bring the Northern polar location to orbital noon where that latitude will exist mid-way between the circle of illumination.

That should actually be... "As the Earth moves through space and to its orbital location where the Solstice occurs within the next 7 days, the entire planet will have MOVED ALONG ITS ORBITAL PATH JUST ENOUGH to bring the SOUTHERN polar location to orbital noon"... since the Earth is only APPARENTLY turning wrt the Sun.


As the planet moves through space the entire planet turns hence all locations,including the polar latitudes where the separate daily rotation is absent, at one time or another face the central Sun or in the opposite direction..

It is the turn of the surface location that is the South pole to face the central Sun directly hence there is nothing apparent about it no more than the North pole is almost reaching its position mid-way between the circle of illumination and facing the opposite direction to the central Sun.

The cause of frost in Northern Europe daily and its disappearance is a consequence of the actual daily rotation of the Earth as those locations turn daily towards and away from the Sun while the annual development of Arctic sea ice and its disappearance also has a surface rotational cause as the entire surface of the planet turns slowly and unevenly while moving around the Sun.

Scream 'apparent' all you like, the actual surface conditions at the poles require a surface rotation to explain it and nothing better than having humans visit the Antarctic presently where it is approaching orbital noon as the Earth moves along its orbital circuit and turns as it does so.

Here is what you unfortunate people believe rather than adopt the additional surface rotation -

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...easonearth.png

The blanket coverage about the mindnumbing idea that humans can and should control of the planet's temperature is the worse type of slavery because its comes from the same cult that refuses to accept the cause of both the daily and annual temperature fluctuations via the dynamics of the planet.

Cut off all the funding and see how real the concern for the planet is but I already know what the result will be. The issue is the fear that were the horrendous mistakes at a level of the most basic planetary facts made it into wider circulation then humanity would neither trust nor pay for scientist ever again after what is effectively a betrayal of Western civilization. This quagmire notwithstanding I would still have to keep ideas and concepts front and center knowing full well that like a chameleon, the entire community would eventually adopt the principles as though this is what they always believed. That is lousy but the only way forward presently so in case you think you are insulting me, think again.