|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
The Ping-Pong Ball and The Sun / S D Rodrian
Aardvark wrote:
Once the ping-pong ball reaches the center of the Sun it will achieve gravity equilibrium and lie forever suspended there (at the exact center of a great hollow). No it won't. It will oscillate back and forth. -- Which of the seven heavens / Was responsible her smile / Wouldn't be sure but attested / That, whoever it was, a god / Worth kneeling-to for a while / Had tabernacled and rested. |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
The Ping-Pong Ball and The Sun / S D Rodrian
On Oct 29, 6:40*am, Frederick Williams
wrote: Aardvark wrote: Once the ping-pong ball reaches the center of the Sun it will achieve gravity equilibrium and lie forever suspended there (at the exact center of a great hollow). No it won't. It will oscillate back and forth. -- Which of the seven heavens / Was responsible her smile / Wouldn't be sure but attested / That, whoever it was, a god / Worth kneeling-to for a while / Had tabernacled and rested. I refer you back to: http://groups.google.com/group/uk.ph...n&dmode=source S D Rodrian http://sdrodrian.com http://physics.sdrodrian.com http://mp3.sdrodrian.com On Oct 26, 1:51 am, BradGuth wrote: Gravity Force Inside a Spherical Shell (is always zero) http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...ell2.html#wtls So, how thick is the shell or gaseous outer wall of our sun? If the universe operated as described by classical laws of gravity (e.g. via your mythical graviton) then probably the Sun would look like a big frozen planet (along with every other star). The "shell" might simply descend in density to a least dense center, that's all. Fortunately the universe doesn't look inside the craniums of men to learn how it's permitted to work (or not): Eventually men LEARN the Earth isn't flat. That the universe does not revolve around their itty bitty planet. And that the reason why gravitational anomalies suffuse the universe everywhere they look is NOT because "God likes lo create complex puzzles with wandering planets, and gravitational forces that don't act on the parts of a mass just on the whole of it" BUT because they have yet to fully grasp (understand) exactly how perfectly simple the workings of the universe really are. You can learn a bit of it by traveling to: http://physics.sdrodrian.com You will have to shut your mind to the bunk more primitive monkeys than you have come up with throughout theis ascent from more primitive ages... to our howling day. But it can be done (by most monkeys, if not all). Good luck! S D Rodrian http://sdrodrian.com http://physics.sdrodrian.com http://mp3.sdrodrian.com .. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
The Ping-Pong Ball and The Sun / S D Rodrian
On Oct 29, 7:59 pm, "Peter Webb" wrote:
"Aardvark" wrote in message If the universe operated as described by classical laws of gravity (e.g. via your mythical graviton) then probably the Sun would look like a big frozen planet (along with every other star). The "shell" might simply descend in density to a least dense center, that's all. The Sun is a fluid. On earth, more dense objects sink in fluids, and less dense objects float. But you believe that on the Sun, the highest density matter floats on top of less dense matter? You're not thinking straight: I do not claim that the universe works in any way differently from how we know it works. I do know that if gravity were producing "the effects of gravity," then the universe could NOT work the way we know it works (from the way gravity should work if it were to work according to its own laws). ERGO my scenario of a "less dense core" for the Sun... if the universe worked according to the laws of gavity. The Sun does not actually have a less dense core BECAUSE (see Newton's laws of motion) since the beginning of the universe everything in it has been accelerating towards ITS CENTER(s). NOTE: Not towards "a" center because the sum total of its matter IS its center. THERE is no other matter in the universe than matter---I know this simplicity is hard for monkeys to grasp. And I have great sympathy for you, believe me. But eventually you will all understand it; just as you now understand that the math that proved Ptolemy's earh-centered notion didn't really prove anything except perhaps the over-cleverness of us monkeys. In affect, the universe is acting like THE MOTHER OF ALL BLACK HOLES with every "bit of matter in it" being its "point of infinite density" (the very obviously misnamed "singularity"). EVERYTHING about us is telling us this is the case, but we are not yet prepared (as a monkey society) to see it (only I can see it--others may see it as well, or perhaps blurrily, sooner or later). THAT is why denser (the more mass, given the same space) stuff "moves" toward center with "greater weight" (more impetus) than less massive matter (and why nearly mass- less particles like the photon seen to shoot about AT AN ALMOST INCREDIBLY CONSTANT SPEED regardless of where in the universe they are). And without knowing each other. And why, the photon, after it slows down while passing through a denser medium suddenly re-speeds up after it hits a less dense medium, and WITHOUT having to fire any after-burners! It's all explained from several different angles at: http://physics.sdrodrian.com and in a plain/simple English language which even a six year old can follow. See if you can, S D Rodrian http://sdrodrian.com http://physics.sdrodrian.com http://mp3.sdrodrian.com .. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
The Ping-Pong Ball and The Sun / S D Rodrian
On Nov 1, 3:39 am, Tomm Carr
wrote: Aardvark wrote: The Ping-Pong Ball and The Sun. [When it is at the Sun's surface, the pull of the Sun's gravity on the ping-pong ball will be at its maximum.] The instant the ping-pong ball plunges past the surface of the Sun, the pull of the Sun's gravity on the ping-pong ball will begin to decrease. [This is because as the ping-pong ball travels closer and closer to the center of the Sun: the mass pulling on the ping-pong ball is decreasing, all the time that there will be a growing amount of Sun-mass behind it pulling back on it.] Once the ping-pong ball reaches the center of the Sun it will achieve gravity equilibrium and lie forever suspended there (at the exact center of a great hollow). Conclusions from the above thought experiment: Your conclusions are flawed for a very simple reason. Thank God! I hate it when my conclusions are flawed because of very complex reasons. What you have done is a rhetorical sleight-of-hand which, like a good magician, gets us looking in one direction while the action is taking place in the other. See: This is why there should be a law against those TV programs that reveal how the tricks of magicians like me are done. You get everyone looking only at gravity and missing the other forces at work. That's in the other forces' work contract. What you say about gravity is true: it is greatest on the surface and will cancel out -- be effectively zero -- in the center. Pressure, otoh, will be least on the surface and greatest in the center. You're thinking of a bowling ball there, friend: [The Sun is not a bowling ball: If it were, we'd know where the pressure was coming from--But since the Sun is a ball of gas/plasma, it should perfectly "describes" the impression of gravity upon its matter ... exactly like the magnetic fields of a magnet's poles "describe" themselves on iron filings spread out on a sheet of paper under which you move said magnet. Do the experiment yourself. Remember: There is NO WAY for one of the Sun's "filings" (or: atomic particle) to "push" another anywhe They should all travel towards where they are "pulled" by gravity. ERGO: If the Sun were indeed being "shaped" by gravity, there would be no/little pressure towards the core to carry out any fusion reaction. That is a physical fact which nothing in your philosophy can dispute. THERE IS fusion going on at the Sun's core, otherwise it'd be a big ole bowling ball.] Therefore, Tommy Trust me: The Sun (and every other heavenly body) is being shaped/worked by "something" other than your laws of gravity. Go read all about it at: http://physics.sdrodrian.com The answer is PAINFULLY simple: It HAD to be, otherwise IT COULDN'T BE--Even Einstein knew this, when he said that "God does not play dice." ("Physicists have suggested that the laws and constants of physics are too good - as if the universe were set up to favour life's evolution. It is as though there were, say, half a dozen dials representing the major constants of physics. Each of the dials could in principle be tuned to any of a wide range of values. Almost all of these knob- twiddlings would yield a universe in which life would be impossible. Some universes would fizzle out within the first picosecond. Others would contain no elements heavier than hydrogen and helium. In yet others, matter would never condense into stars (and you need stars in order to forge the elements of chemistry and hence life). You can estimate the very low odds against the six knobs all just happening to be correctly tuned, and conclude that a divine knob-twiddler must have been at work" IF you do not understand that the sequence is not one of six disparate/unrelated knobs but one of one leading INEVITABLY to the next. In other words: The explanation to Existence is always 1,2,3,4,5,6 ... inevitably. If any other sequece is proposed the proposal is as wrong as proposing your nephew created the universe: No proof of that can ever be right. And regardless how elegant the math may be. How is that? Because the pressure is not the result of gravity acting directly on the ping-pong ball. It is the result of gravity acting on everything else. At the surface, and at all points under the surface until it gets to the center, gravity is pulling the ball towards the center. In fact, gravity is pulling all the hydrogen (yes, helium and other elements too -- but vastly more hydrogen) toward the center. Once at the center, gravity is no longer effecting the ping-pong ball, but it is still effecting the trillions of trillions of trillions of tons of hydrogen, all being pulled, and generating pressure, toward the center -- directly at the hapless ping-pong ball. This exerts, as could well be imagined, a good deal of pressure on said ping-pong ball. Read the theory of solar system creation: All your atoms are experiencing a swirling, NOT a rush towards center (you know, like the orbiting planets, which are just merely agglomerations of atoms). The pressure towards center can NOT be the result of gravity for an universe of reasons (no pun intended). For the reason why everything is always moving towards center, go thou read it at: http://physics.sdrodrian.com You know, when the Ptolemy System was drawn up... it all fit together perfectly. The math was mavelus! Except, of course, that a few "stars" (planets, actually, like Venus) would suddenly seem to come to a dead stop, and then go back the way they'd come!!! But that was just a few planets--Why scrap a beautiful system like Ptolemy's just for a few lousy planets that refused to obey its laws? Well, because it told you the system was rotten. Well the system of Gravity we have today to explain the way the universe works doesn't just have a few wandering planets, it has scientists losing their sanity and proposing science fiction solutions at almost EVERY turn: Time-travel (Yes: they're now quite SERIOUSLY blaming the failure at CERN on "the notion that the troubled collider is being sabotaged by its own futu A pair of otherwise distinguished physicists have suggested that the hypothesized Higgs boson, which physicists hope to produce with the collider, might be so abhorrent to nature that its creation would ripple backward through time and stop the collider before it could make one, like a time traveler who goes back in time to kill his grandfather.")... and a myriad other idiotic physical impossibilities like "dark energy." And yet these idiots refuse to accept that their extire system is rotten. Believe Einstein on this one: The solution is not 1, 483, 43, 9, 1999, 2 but 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Inevitability is ALWAYS the correct solution. You can even perform a real-world experiment to observe this principle, using a real ping-pong ball and a swimming pool. At the surface, there is no pressure on the ball -- it floats there quite happily. But cup your hand over it and push it to the bottom of the deep end. By the time you get to the bottom of the pool, the ball should be thoroughly crushed. By gravity? No, the amount of gravity pulling on the ball will not have changed significantly from the top of the pool to the bottom. It was all that water on top of the ball that generated the pressure. --Tomm Catt I already tried this experiment on the SUN itself, and burnt my hand--I suggest you try thought experiments (if you're crazy enough they'll all work out). S D Rodrian http://sdrodrian.com http://physics.sdrodrian.com http://mp3.sdrodrian.com .. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
The Ping-Pong Ball and The Sun / S D Rodrian
On Nov 21, 12:29 am, "Angelo Campanella"
wrote: Rather than a cavity, the region is one of zero gravity! Sorry: The region (core) is one of the MOST/ THE HIGHEST pressure of all--My point, rather, is that according to the laws of gravity THIS SHOULD NOT BE. And yet it is. Did you miss this? The vacuum concept is the one that does not occur, per se. In its place is the Zero gravity field, which allows for mixing with no gradients interfereing, an intersting cauldron. Well, if you can explain how the hydrogen atoms are PRESSED closed enough together to knock them into a fusion reaction... WITHOUT any gravitational intervention: THAT would certainly be something worth listening to! Which is it? SEE: http://physics.sdrodrian.com Very long winded. I never got to any core punch line. This is the history of people who do not know and probably will never know: You simply are not interested enough to pursue the hard road to where the answer IS. I'll write it he Gravity does not exist. There is NO such thing as "gravity" (e.g. gravitons, gravity waves, or anything like). Now go read the complete solution at: http://physics.sdrodrian.com The universe (and stars, the Sun) does not work by gravity--what has been described as gravity). Nor is it the result of a primordial infinitely dense atom exploding (a Big Bang) where the 4 forces were one or any such nonsense (hell, even the people who propose this will instantly turn around and tell you in the very next breath that gravity is not really a force: "It is a timespace fabric" upon which marbles and balls roll around... bending the fabric Einstein knitted to replace the ether idea he himself had torn to shreds (replaced, really, as you can see). BECAUSE it is impossible to defend the existence of the "force" of gravity. Please ask these people how gravity ceased to be a force immediately after the Big Bang and became an ether. And it all goes back to HOW the universe came to be formed in the first place: In its simplest sense, think of it as an area in "the primordial voids" of lesser pressure into which the surrounding greater pressures rushed--And there was created our universe. That "rush" of everything towards center(s) is still going on (but ever faster and faster because of the conservation of angular momentum one sees when something/anything spinning suddenly occupies a smaller area). This is essentially what has been going on in the universe all along... and eventually creates a universe of hydrogen atoms which eventually becomes a universe of black holes and then--? Since the universe is rather ancient now and it is ever-accelerating, its "speed" now must be horrifically fast--Why don't we notice it? We do, in the speed of light. But this hints at an even profounder human condition: Our lives, which appear to be so protracted, are really unimaginably instantaneous (which give us the sensation of a universe just hanging around, chilling as it were, because our every thoughts are so fleeting): Our lives are a blink, we just don't see it. Life, as we know it, can only exist in the universe in transition from hydrogen atoms to black holes. So take time to understand things now, because there will never exist understanding ever again. S D Rodrian http://sdrodrian.com http://physics.sdrodrian.com http://mp3.sdrodrian.com .. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
The Ping-Pong Ball and The Sun / S D Rodrian
"Aardvark" wrote in message ... Well, if you can explain how the hydrogen atoms are PRESSED closed enough together to knock them into a fusion reaction... WITHOUT any gravitational intervention: THAT would certainly be something worth listening to! Still at this? Stand in the center of 100,000 starving people and hold up a Big Mac. Everyone towards the center will be pushing back, but they are outnumbered which will lead to you, and them, getting crushed. So, yeah, that Mac's influence was pretty much equalized at the center, now, wasn't it? |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
The Ping-Pong Ball and The Sun / S D Rodrian | BradGuth | Solar | 6 | January 5th 10 11:05 PM |
The Ping-Pong Ball and The Sun / S D Rodrian | Aardvark | Astronomy Misc | 30 | November 4th 09 11:51 AM |
The Ping-Pong Ball and The Sun / S D Rodrian | Sleepalot[_2_] | Solar | 3 | October 26th 09 03:06 AM |
Picture Request: von Braun and Pong | gb | History | 1 | May 18th 05 04:43 AM |