Dobsdonian Light Bucket 10''

I'm looking into buying one of these what brand and do you suggest
anything else. I'm probley going to be getting a Barlow eyepiece what
else should I get. What kind of atlas should I get. I also want lot's
of sky catologs what do you suggest.

"Macro" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm looking into buying one of these what brand and do you suggest
anything else. I'm probley going to be getting a Barlow eyepiece what
else should I get. What kind of atlas should I get. I also want lot's
of sky catologs what do you suggest.


Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord

Dennis Woos wrote:

"Macro" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm looking into buying one of these what brand and do you suggest
anything else. I'm probley going to be getting a Barlow eyepiece what
else should I get. What kind of atlas should I get. I also want lot's
of sky catologs what do you suggest.


Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord



Hi, there, Macro, and I'd agree with Dennis that Starlord's FAQ is one
the best places to start in learning about telescopes and making an
informed decision. There are a number of other good resources on the
Web about selecting a telescope, so you might want to read Starlord's
first, and then look at some of the others also.

As it happens, I'm the very new user of a 20cm (or 7.9") Dob, so what
I'm about to say is based on a small amount of practical experience
plus some reading. Others may have helpful comments also -- which,
together with the FAQ's, may help you get a feeling for the range
of opinions you'll often encounter among amateur astronomers.

Why don't I try to address your question about atlases and catalogues,
inviting more experienced people to correct or expand upon what I say.

You are very right to focus on star atlases and catalogues, because
with a usual Dob style of observing, you will be locating objects
visually by starhopping -- the topic of some recent threads here,
and something you can practice with the naked eye or binoculars
while thinking about and ordering a scope.

This means learning the night sky, and using atlases or charts to
help you in locating some easy-to-find landmark in the sky, and
then "hopping" to another recognizable star or other object --
until the chain of "road signs" take you to an object you're
seeking to find, such as a star cluster or galaxy, or possibly
a planet. Of course, if you take a special interest in the Moon,
that's usually easier to find grin.

Many experienced people would actually advise you to put off making
any decision on a scope until you've learned the night sky fairly
well and become experienced with binoculars -- great to have whether
you also have a scope or not! However, I must admit that my own
method was to research and order a scope, and at the same time do
lots of binocular observing while waiting for its arrival. I'm happy
-- but your mileage or kilometrage may vary!

With star atlases, we might speak of three general categories. The
wide-area map or lower resolution type, as with some pocket atlases,
is very convenient for getting an overview of the sky, and for locating
where you are with a telescope finder scope or binoculars closely
enough to let you use a more detailed atlas or chart for finding an
object from there. Such an atlas might show stars down to around
magnitude 6.5, about the limit for the naked eye at a dark site.

Next there are "intermediate" atlases that go down to stars at around
magnitude 8.5. One of these that I use, and is available for free on
the Web, is Taki's 8.5 Magnitude Star Atlas. The pages are formatted
for the international A4 standard, and I understand that the Adobe
Acrobat reader can convert them to letter size (8.5"x11") in places
where that is a customary standard. I've used this both with 7X50
binoculars and my Sky-Watcher Dob, and am very happy. This, or one
of the comparable commercial atlases, is ideal for navigating with
binoculars or a finder scope.

However, for starhopping through the telescope eyepiece itself
(usually at a magnification of 30X or more, and a much narrower
field of view than binoculars), we do best with a really detailed
or "high-resolution" atlas like Uranometria 2000 or the Millennium
Star Atlas. These atlases represent quite an investment -- and
are large and also may require some care if you use them for
observing in the field (e.g. watching out for exposure to dew).
However, at some point, you may want to consider this option.
The Millennium Star Atlas goes down to magnitude 11, and Uranometria
to magnitude 9.75. The former may be ideal for starhopping through
the eyepiece because its generous scale more comfortably fits your
likely eyepiece view, while the latter has an excellent guidebook
volume and also more deep sky objects (DSO's) such as open and
globular star clusters, nebulae, and galaxies.

The more detailed an atlas, all things being equal, the more
charts -- and the the smaller the area of the sky covered by
any one chart. Thus with something like Uranometria 2000 or the
Millennium Atlas, you might use a pocket atlas, or one of the
larger magnitude 6-8.5 atlases, to find your general location,
and then turn to the right chart in the more detailed atlas.
This is a bit like first using your naked eyes or finder scope
to move your scope to the area near an object of interest, and
then do the close-in starhopping through an eyepiece.

With a Dob in the 8"-10" (or 200-250mm) range, however, even the
Millennium Atlas with its Magnitude 11 limit shows far fewer
stars than you can see in the scope. Various computer programs
use databases like the Tycho 2 Star Catalogue to generate charts
that can be more detailed than any printed atlas.

Many catalogues of DSO's are available on the Web, and there are
also excellent books giving more information about these objects
and how to find them. The Messier catalogue of about 110 objects
includes some of the finest DSO's, which should all be visible
in dark sky conditions with just about any scope, with the NGC
(New General Catalogue), which grew out of the observations of
William, Caroline, and John Herschel, is a listing of thousands
of objects which should keep any amateur astronomer busy for
quite a while! There are also popular subsets of the NGC like
the "Herschel 400" and "Herschel 2" (another 400 objects),
as well smaller selections like the Caldwell list.

Again, I'd join Dennis in urging you to read Starlord's FAQ
(a real classic!); know that you are not alone, and that s.a.a.
is the right place for these questions.

Most appreciatively,

Margo Schulter

Lat. 38.566 Long. -121.430

Thank you Margo and Dennis. I appreciate your advise and I'm printing
it now.

Dennis Woos Boys has a chubby for ****etards arsehole:

"Macro" feltched in massage
oups.com...
I'm looking into buying one of these what brand and do you suggest
anything else. I'm probley going to be getting a Barlow eyepiece what
else should I get. What kind of atlas should I get. I also want lot's
of sky catologs what do you suggest.


Telescope Buyers FAQ starlord ****etard starlord ****etard spammertard starlord ****etard
http://tinyurl.com/ypt5fn



Hi, there, Tard Puppet, and I'd agree with Tard that ****e Tards's SPAMMING FAQ is one
the best places to start in learning about SPAMMING GOB****E RUBBISH and making an
informed decision on BUTT PLUGS. There are a number of other good resources on the
pedophile site about selecting gerbil felching tubes, so you might want to read ****eTard's
first, and then look at some of the other shela sods also. I want to add that we
love the sporge floods that Dennis Bishop the self pity 30% cripple and hard ****ed drunken bum
and dishonourably discharged cowardly fawking spamming stalking tarded gob****e rubbish
fawking arsehole with the 70 iq and his ickle radio flyer caused,
making sci.astro.amateur totally fawking useless. We love Dennis at the star
parties, because the blokes whip out their chubby telescopes and gang bang Tard up
his ****e hole. I use a strap on the chubby john holmes model. Dennis the tarded gimp
and spammertard of rosatard and spelling bee champion loves to take it up the arse
in front of children. He will swallow for a ten bob and does the whole
crew for case of lager then hobbles down 20th street wagon in tow

As it happens, I'm the very new user of a 20cm (or 7.9") gerbil tube, so what
I'm about to say is based on a large amount of practical felching experience in groups
plus some reading on ****etard's gerbil FAQ. Others may have helpful comments also -- which,
together with the Tard FAQ's, may help you get a feeling of being buggered up your
arsehole for the range of opinions you'll often encounter among amateur arsetro buggers.

Jul qba'g V gel gb nqqerff lbhe dhrfgvba nobhg ngynfrf naq pngnybthrf,
vaivgvat zber rkcrevraprq crbcyr gb pbeerpg be rkcnaq hcba jung V fnl.

Lbh ner irel evtug gb sbphf ba fgne ngynfrf naq pngnybthrf, orpnhfr
jvgu n hfhny Qbo fglyr bs bofreivat, lbh jvyy or ybpngvat bowrpgf
ivfhnyyl ol fgneubccvat -- gur gbcvp bs fbzr erprag guernqf urer,
naq fbzrguvat lbh pna cenpgvpr jvgu gur anxrq rlr be ovabphynef
juvyr guvaxvat nobhg naq beqrevat n fpbcr.

Guvf zrnaf yrneavat gur avtug fxl, naq hfvat ngynfrf be punegf gb
uryc lbh va ybpngvat fbzr rnfl-gb-svaq ynaqznex va gur fxl, naq
gura "ubccvat" gb nabgure erpbtavmnoyr fgne be bgure bowrpg --
hagvy gur punva bs "ebnq fvtaf" gnxr lbh gb na bowrpg lbh'er
frrxvat gb svaq, fhpu nf n fgne pyhfgre be tnynkl, be cbffvoyl
n cynarg. Bs pbhefr, vs lbh gnxr n fcrpvny vagrerfg va gur Zbba,
gung'f hfhnyyl rnfvre gb svaq teva.

Znal rkcrevraprq crbcyr jbhyq npghnyyl nqivfr lbh gb chg bss znxvat
nal qrpvfvba ba n fpbcr hagvy lbh'ir yrnearq gur avtug fxl snveyl
jryy naq orpbzr rkcrevraprq jvgu ovabphynef -- terng gb unir jurgure
lbh nyfb unir n fpbcr be abg! Ubjrire, V zhfg nqzvg gung zl bja
zrgubq jnf gb erfrnepu naq beqre n fpbcr, naq ng gur fnzr gvzr qb
ybgf bs ovabphyne bofreivat juvyr jnvgvat sbe vgf neeviny. V'z unccl
-- ohg lbhe zvyrntr be xvybzrgentr znl inel!

Jvgu fgne ngynfrf, jr zvtug fcrnx bs guerr trareny pngrtbevrf. Gur
jvqr-nern znc be ybjre erfbyhgvba glcr, nf jvgu fbzr cbpxrg ngynfrf,
vf irel pbairavrag sbe trggvat na bireivrj bs gur fxl, naq sbe ybpngvat
jurer lbh ner jvgu n gryrfpbcr svaqre fpbcr be ovabphynef pybfryl
rabhtu gb yrg lbh hfr n zber qrgnvyrq ngynf be puneg sbe svaqvat na
bowrpg sebz gurer. Fhpu na ngynf zvtug fubj fgnef qbja gb nebhaq
zntavghqr 6.5, nobhg gur yvzvg sbe gur anxrq rlr ng n qnex fvgr.

Arkg gurer ner "vagrezrqvngr" ngynfrf gung tb qbja gb fgnef ng nebhaq
zntavghqr 8.5. Bar bs gurfr gung V hfr, naq vf ninvynoyr sbe serr ba
gur Jro, vf Gnxv'f 8.5 Zntavghqr Fgne Ngynf. Gur cntrf ner sbeznggrq
sbe gur vagreangvbany N4 fgnaqneq, naq V haqrefgnaq gung gur Nqbor
Npebong ernqre pna pbaireg gurz gb yrggre fvmr (8.5"k11") va cynprf
jurer gung vf n phfgbznel fgnaqneq. V'ir hfrq guvf obgu jvgu 7K50
ovabphynef naq zl Fxl-Jngpure Qbo, naq nz irel unccl. Guvf, be bar
bs gur pbzcnenoyr pbzzrepvny ngynfrf, vf vqrny sbe anivtngvat jvgu
ovabphynef be n svaqre fpbcr.

Ubjrire, sbe fgneubccvat guebhtu gur gryrfpbcr rlrcvrpr vgfrys
(hfhnyyl ng n zntavsvpngvba bs 30K be zber, naq n zhpu aneebjre
svryq bs ivrj guna ovabphynef), jr qb orfg jvgu n ernyyl qrgnvyrq
be "uvtu-erfbyhgvba" ngynf yvxr Henabzrgevn 2000 be gur Zvyyraavhz
Fgne Ngynf. Gurfr ngynfrf ercerfrag dhvgr na vairfgzrag -- naq
ner ynetr naq nyfb znl erdhver fbzr pner vs lbh hfr gurz sbe
bofreivat va gur svryq (r.t. jngpuvat bhg sbe rkcbfher gb qrj).
Ubjrire, ng fbzr cbvag, lbh znl jnag gb pbafvqre guvf bcgvba.
Gur Zvyyraavhz Fgne Ngynf tbrf qbja gb zntavghqr 11, naq Henabzrgevn
gb zntavghqr 9.75. Gur sbezre znl or vqrny sbe fgneubccvat guebhtu
gur rlrcvrpr orpnhfr vgf trarebhf fpnyr zber pbzsbegnoyl svgf lbhe
yvxryl rlrcvrpr ivrj, juvyr gur ynggre unf na rkpryyrag thvqrobbx
ibyhzr naq nyfb zber qrrc fxl bowrpgf (QFB'f) fhpu nf bcra naq
tybohyne fgne pyhfgref, arohynr, naq tnynkvrf.

Gur zber qrgnvyrq na ngynf, nyy guvatf orvat rdhny, gur zber
punegf -- naq gur gur fznyyre gur nern bs gur fxl pbirerq ol
nal bar puneg. Guhf jvgu fbzrguvat yvxr Henabzrgevn 2000 be gur
Zvyyraavhz Ngynf, lbh zvtug hfr n cbpxrg ngynf, be bar bs gur
ynetre zntavghqr 6-8.5 ngynfrf, gb svaq lbhe trareny ybpngvba,
naq gura ghea gb gur evtug puneg va gur zber qrgnvyrq ngynf.
Guvf vf n ovg yvxr svefg hfvat lbhe anxrq rlrf be svaqre fpbcr
gb zbir lbhe fpbcr gb gur nern arne na bowrpg bs vagrerfg, naq
gura qb gur pybfr-va fgneubccvat guebhtu na rlrcvrpr.

Jvgu n Qbo va gur 8"-10" (be 200-250zz) enatr, ubjrire, rira gur
Zvyyraavhz Ngynf jvgu vgf Zntavghqr 11 yvzvg fubjf sne srjre
fgnef guna lbh pna frr va gur fpbcr. Inevbhf pbzchgre cebtenzf
hfr qngnonfrf yvxr gur Glpub 2 Fgne Pngnybthr gb trarengr punegf
gung pna or zber qrgnvyrq guna nal cevagrq ngynf.

Znal pngnybthrf bs QFB'f ner ninvynoyr ba gur Jro, naq gurer ner
nyfb rkpryyrag obbxf tvivat zber vasbezngvba nobhg gurfr bowrpgf
naq ubj gb svaq gurz. Gur Zrffvre pngnybthr bs nobhg 110 bowrpgf
vapyhqrf fbzr bs gur svarfg QFB'f, juvpu fubhyq nyy or ivfvoyr
va qnex fxl pbaqvgvbaf jvgu whfg nobhg nal fpbcr, jvgu gur ATP
(Arj Trareny Pngnybthr), juvpu terj bhg bs gur bofreingvbaf bs
Jvyyvnz, Pnebyvar, naq Wbua Urefpury, vf n yvfgvat bs gubhfnaqf
bs bowrpgf juvpu fubhyq xrrc nal nzngrhe nfgebabzre ohfl sbe
dhvgr n juvyr! Gurer ner nyfb cbchyne fhofrgf bs gur ATP yvxr
gur "Urefpury 400" naq "Urefpury 2" (nabgure 400 bowrpgf),
nf jryy fznyyre fryrpgvbaf yvxr gur Pnyqjryy yvfg.

Ntnva, V'q wbva Qraavf va hetvat lbh gb ernq Fgneybeq'f SND
(n erny pynffvp!); xabj gung lbh ner abg nybar, naq gung f.n.n.
vf gur evtug cynpr sbe gurfr dhrfgvbaf.

Zbfg nccerpvngviryl,

SPAMMERTard Puppet
as
Yng. 38.566 Ybat. -121.430
Antelope Valley Mobile Estates my arse its a fawking trailer trash dump for
nappy headed drunken bums and SPAMMERS and STALKERS and PLAGIARISTS
and SOCK PUPPETS and fawking barmy ARSEHOLES that cause SPORGE FLOODS
****etard the dishonourably discharged spammertard of rosatard dennis bishop

On Sep 7, 6:48 pm, Macro wrote:
Thank you Margo and Dennis. I appreciate your advise and I'm printing
it now.

Hi Macro;

You also asked about star charts and star atlases. I like Andrew
Johnson's Mag 7 star atlas project, which is a free star atlas in PDF
format. You can download the atlas he http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=1052
(scroll down to the bottom of that page to get the most recent
version). The atlas can also be downloaded from this page:
http://www.siaris.net/astro/atlas/ and an object index is available on
that page as well.

In addition, I have a couple of indexes I made myself at
http://astrogeek.wordpress.com/2007/...dated-indexes/

In addition, Toshimi Taki has produced two excellent atlases, one is a
Mag 6.5 atlas (12 pages) at http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~zs3t-tk/atlas/atlas.htm,
and the second is a Mag 8.5 atlas and set of object lists at
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~zs3t-tk/...5/atlas_85.htm (CAUTION:
The Mag 8.5 atlas with object lists and manual is almost 700 pages,
and will take a while to download if you are on a slow connection).

If you are interested in making your own planispheres, then there's
either Jan Tosovsky's page at http://nio.astronomy.cz/om/ or Toshimi
Taki's pages at http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~zs3t-tk/...lanisphere.htm
There's also one at the Sky and Telescope site, but I can't seem to
find that link at the moment. If you want to purchase a good plastic
planisphere, then the double-sided one at http://www.astromax.com/chandler/nightsky.htm
can be had for $6 (small) or $10 (large) or the larger Sky and
Telescope planisphere can be found at shopatsky.com for around $16.

In addition, if you go to skymaps.com at the beginning of each month,
there is a sky chart published there that you can download that is
specific to the upcoming month.

On Sep 6, 3:37 pm, Macro wrote:
I'm looking into buying one of these what brand and do you suggest
anything else. I'm probley going to be getting a Barlow eyepiece what
else should I get. What kind of atlas should I get. I also want lot's
of sky catologs what do you suggest.

Whatever you choose, you should consider the choice of finder almost
as important as the scope, or at least the atlas. Particularly under
somewhat light-polluted skies, you'll find it difficult to star-hop
with a typical 30 mm finder. My Dob has such a little clunker, and
it's amazing how much more enjoyable it is to hunt around with the
Orion 9 x 50 mm right-angle finder on my Synta scopes. The slightly
smaller field of view is not really a problem, IMVHO. It's no
competition to a high-quality 50 mm binocular, of course, but it even
does a fair job of showing objects objects too large to view with the
main scope, such as M31 or Kemble's Cascade.

mx wrote:

Whatever you choose, you should consider the choice of finder almost
as important as the scope, or at least the atlas. Particularly under
somewhat light-polluted skies, you'll find it difficult to star-hop
with a typical 30 mm finder. My Dob has such a little clunker, and
it's amazing how much more enjoyable it is to hunt around with the
Orion 9 x 50 mm right-angle finder on my Synta scopes. The slightly
smaller field of view is not really a problem, IMVHO. It's no
competition to a high-quality 50 mm binocular, of course, but it even
does a fair job of showing objects objects too large to view with the
main scope, such as M31 or Kemble's Cascade.

Please let me agree that having a finder with more aperture and
magnification (9X50 is a good standard) can indeed help with light
pollution.

Also I would agree that a somewhat smaller field is a reasonable
compromise if the increased magnification makes it possible actually
to see through the finder what you're looking for, whether a sought
object itself or a guidestar. A 8"-10" scope really should have 9X50
or the like.

To the original poster, I should add one comment about atlases: while
I consider a very detailed atlas very helpful, I wouldn't want to
promote "atlas fever," a bit like the aperture fever that maybe you've
already heard about where it seems that, "If I only had a mirror a
couple of inches wider, everything would be fine" -- even if one's
present mirror is 20" grin. Someone in this thread posted some
excellent links to some free atlases, and these should provide a
fine starting point. Also, monthly star charts you can find on the
Web, at least one with a nice list of naked eye, binocular, and
telescopic objects to look for in a given month, are another
helpful starting point.

Finally, I would suggest giving yourself some time to make a decision.
There are questions like whether you would like to go with a classic
Dob, or possibly something like the Orion IntelliScope concept, which
gives you the option of using a computerized object locator system to
find deep sky objects and the like (you still point the scope manually,
but the computer guides you in the process).

As you look into telescope brands or models, or run into questions
about concepts you encounter in FAQ documents and the like, please
feel free to post about it here. Informed choice is one of the goals
of the group, and it's a pleasure to help.

Most appreciatively,

Margo Schulter

Lat. 38.566 Long. -121.430