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United States Falling Behind EVERYONE In Physics, Science, Rockets,EVERYTHING.



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 8th 08, 07:46 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.environment,sci.physics,sci.chem
Damon Hill[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 162
Default United States Falling Behind EVERYONE In Physics, Science, Rockets, EVERYTHING.

Ian Parker wrote in

oups.com:


I think the US is falling behind both Europe and Asia. I
think there are a number of reasons.

1) The failure to build a supercollider.


Too busy building advanced semiconductor fabs--those are
hugely expensive.

2) Creationalism, the view that the World is no older than
the Ice Age.


Quite a lot of people here, most in fact, don't believe in
that. Still, the fundamentalist conservatives are inhibiting
progress.

3) Governmenr interference with things like Stem Cell
research.


Got more specific examples; this seems trivial by itself.

4) The US is now a lot less welcoming to foreigners than it
was in the time of Kennedy.


You don't live here, do you? Spanish has become the 2nd
national language by default. We're not as bilingual as
Canada but our economic wealth attracts much immigration.

--Damon
Ads
  #12  
Old September 9th 08, 12:45 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.environment,sci.physics,sci.chem
jonathan[_3_]
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Posts: 485
Default United States Falling Behind EVERYONE In Physics, Science, Rockets, EVERYTHING.


"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
dakotatelephone...


jonathan wrote:
Super Collider? The ultimate in reductionist goals. This type of science
defines the most useless, most irrelevant and least meaningful kind
of science possible....ie...it defines 'pure' science.


I'm still keen to see CERN crank it up...about the time that Stephen Hawking
thinks: "Did I make a slip there? Was that a plus where a minus should have
gone in that formula around thirty years ago?"
Then, in around a matter of a hour or so, the entire solar system collapses
into the black hole where Earth used to be.
Many would be appalled to conceive of such a possibility.
I'd find that to be absolutely hilariously funny. :-D



DOOMSDAY FEARS SPARK LAWSUIT

"The builders of the world's biggest particle collider are being sued
in federal court over fears that the experiment might create
globe-gobbling black holes or never-before-seen strains
of matter that would destroy the planet."
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archi...27/823924.aspx


"One experiment at the LHC, known as ALICE, seeks to re-create the
conditions that existed just an instant after the big bang"
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archi...5/1290475.aspx

Wait just a freakin' minute...didn't the universe suddenly and monstrously
.....inflate....just after the big bang? Maybe we'll become that tiny
particle inside a huge new universe. Maybe they think shrinking us down
to subatomic size will allow them to finally find the long lost "God Particle".

Leave it to the Euros to blow up the planet again.


s











Pat




  #13  
Old September 9th 08, 12:48 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.environment,sci.physics,sci.chem
Al
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 81
Default United States Falling Behind EVERYONE In Physics, Science,Rockets, EVERYTHING.

On Sep 6, 9:53*pm, kT wrote:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/157514

One look at NASA's Orion on Ares I (Constellation) and it's easy to see,
* up front and personal, the tragic and inevitable decline of science,
physics and rocketry in the United States. The rest of the world has
already noticed, but Americans are too wrapped up in their vanities to
see what is already glaringly obvious to the most casual of observers.

I'm going to try to codify this phenomenon in a research proposal.

Perhaps it can be reversed, but I doubt it.

Thirty years of Reagan Idiocracy.


Not thirty years of Idiocracy, thirty years of Kakistocracy!!!

No end in sight, H L Mencken must be roaring in his grave!



  #14  
Old September 9th 08, 06:41 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.environment,sci.physics,sci.chem
Bill Penrose[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default United States Falling Behind EVERYONE In Physics, Science,Rockets, EVERYTHING.

On Sep 6, 7:53*pm, kT wrote:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/157514

One look at NASA's Orion on Ares I (Constellation) and it's easy to see,
* up front and personal, the tragic and inevitable decline of science,
physics and rocketry in the United States.


But we're way ahead in intelligent design, flat earth theory, and
alternate logical systems.

DB



  #15  
Old September 9th 08, 06:50 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.environment,sci.physics,sci.chem
kT
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,032
Default United States Falling Behind EVERYONE In Physics, Science, Rockets,EVERYTHING.

Bill Penrose wrote:

On Sep 6, 7:53 pm, kT wrote:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/157514

One look at NASA's Orion on Ares I (Constellation) and it's easy to see,
up front and personal, the tragic and inevitable decline of science,
physics and rocketry in the United States.


But we're way ahead in intelligent design, flat earth theory, and
alternate logical systems.


In America, one has complete freedom ... to be an idiot.
  #16  
Old September 9th 08, 11:25 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.environment
Ian Parker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,554
Default United States Falling Behind EVERYONE In Physics, Science,Rockets, EVERYTHING.

On 8 Sep, 19:46, Damon Hill wrote:
Ian Parker wrote
oups.com:

I think the US is falling behind both Europe and Asia. I
think there are a number of reasons.


1) The failure to build a supercollider.


Too busy building advanced semiconductor fabs--those are
hugely expensive.

The problem is the US isn't. There is a $50billion adverse trade gap
in high tech products. OK a lot of that may well be in assembly and
also in "old hat" chips. Still automation in this field mitigates the
effect of higher US wage levels. The US has allowed itself to fall
behind in mobile phone technology, to take one example.

Once a country is good it tends to stay good. Scandanavia is good and
looks like remaining so. The US got ioff to a poor start because it
lacked a standard. This reflects the poor quality of public policy. A
Europe consisting of a great many countries managed to agree a
standard which the US failed to do.

2) Creationalism, the view that the World is no older than
the Ice Age.


Quite a lot of people here, most in fact, don't believe in
that. Still, the fundamentalist conservatives are inhibiting
progress.

3) Governmenr interference with things like Stem Cell
research.


Got more specific examples; this seems trivial by itself.

If you read me carefully you would realise that there is no single
factor. The important factor is attracting young people into science.
Obama wants to end the ban on stem cell research. That will do no
good, you cannot have a research program which proceeds in fits and
starts.

One other serious consideration is the nature of the Genesis story
itself. No one can say CERN will melt the Antarctic ice cap (as in the
Garden of Eden). Black holes are (just) semi respectable. Overiding
everything is the feeling that there are areas of knowledge we should
not be enquiring into. This is to me immensely damaging.

Fundamentalism has little effect in Europe and none at all in the Far
East. It is as well to remember this.

4) The US is now a lot less welcoming to foreigners than it
was in the time of Kennedy.


You don't live here, do you? *Spanish has become the 2nd
national language by default. *We're not as bilingual as
Canada but our economic wealth attracts much immigration.

I was talking in the main about the ease of obtaining student visas
etc. The "war" on Terror. Al Qaeda say they are religious yet they are
overwhemingly supporting Europe and China. That isd what historians of
the future will conclude. I think they will be even less happy with
what will follow US dominance than they are with the US.

If you were taking a history exam in the mid to late 21st century you
would be expected to list all these factors in a question about the
decline of US science and (ultimately) US political power.


- Ian Parker

  #17  
Old September 9th 08, 02:15 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.environment
BradGuth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21,544
Default United States Falling Behind EVERYONE In Physics, Science,Rockets, EVERYTHING.

On Sep 9, 3:25 am, Ian Parker wrote:
On 8 Sep, 19:46, Damon Hill wrote: Ian Parker wrote
oups.com:


I think the US is falling behind both Europe and Asia. I
think there are a number of reasons.


1) The failure to build a supercollider.


Too busy building advanced semiconductor fabs--those are
hugely expensive.


The problem is the US isn't. There is a $50billion adverse trade gap
in high tech products. OK a lot of that may well be in assembly and
also in "old hat" chips. Still automation in this field mitigates the
effect of higher US wage levels. The US has allowed itself to fall
behind in mobile phone technology, to take one example.

Once a country is good it tends to stay good. Scandanavia is good and
looks like remaining so. The US got ioff to a poor start because it
lacked a standard. This reflects the poor quality of public policy. A
Europe consisting of a great many countries managed to agree a
standard which the US failed to do.

2) Creationalism, the view that the World is no older than
the Ice Age.


Quite a lot of people here, most in fact, don't believe in
that. Still, the fundamentalist conservatives are inhibiting
progress.


3) Governmenr interference with things like Stem Cell
research.


Got more specific examples; this seems trivial by itself.


If you read me carefully you would realise that there is no single
factor. The important factor is attracting young people into science.
Obama wants to end the ban on stem cell research. That will do no
good, you cannot have a research program which proceeds in fits and
starts.

One other serious consideration is the nature of the Genesis story
itself. No one can say CERN will melt the Antarctic ice cap (as in the
Garden of Eden). Black holes are (just) semi respectable. Overiding
everything is the feeling that there are areas of knowledge we should
not be enquiring into. This is to me immensely damaging.

Fundamentalism has little effect in Europe and none at all in the Far
East. It is as well to remember this.

4) The US is now a lot less welcoming to foreigners than it
was in the time of Kennedy.


You don't live here, do you? Spanish has become the 2nd
national language by default. We're not as bilingual as
Canada but our economic wealth attracts much immigration.


I was talking in the main about the ease of obtaining student visas
etc. The "war" on Terror. Al Qaeda say they are religious yet they are
overwhemingly supporting Europe and China. That isd what historians of
the future will conclude. I think they will be even less happy with
what will follow US dominance than they are with the US.

If you were taking a history exam in the mid to late 21st century you
would be expected to list all these factors in a question about the
decline of US science and (ultimately) US political power.

- Ian Parker


As you say, many factors are responsible for the ongoing demise and
subsequent "decline of US science and (ultimately) US political
power".

Firstly, our public education of physics and science sucks, not to
mention our having to learn and accept lies instead of truths.

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth
  #18  
Old September 9th 08, 02:17 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.environment,sci.physics,sci.chem
BradGuth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21,544
Default United States Falling Behind EVERYONE In Physics, Science,Rockets, EVERYTHING.

On Sep 8, 10:50 pm, kT wrote:
Bill Penrose wrote:
On Sep 6, 7:53 pm, kT wrote:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/157514


One look at NASA's Orion on Ares I (Constellation) and it's easy to see,
up front and personal, the tragic and inevitable decline of science,
physics and rocketry in the United States.


But we're way ahead in intelligent design, flat earth theory, and
alternate logical systems.


In America, one has complete freedom ... to be an idiot.


Make that a village idiot, because it takes a village of such idiots
in order to produce yet another of their own kind.

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth
  #19  
Old September 9th 08, 03:44 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.environment
Eric Chomko[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,853
Default United States Falling Behind EVERYONE In Physics, Science,Rockets, EVERYTHING.

On Sep 9, 6:25*am, Ian Parker wrote:
On 8 Sep, 19:46, Damon Hill wrote: Ian Parker wrote
oups.com:


I think the US is falling behind both Europe and Asia. I
think there are a number of reasons.


1) The failure to build a supercollider.


Too busy building advanced semiconductor fabs--those are
hugely expensive.


The problem is the US isn't. There is a $50billion adverse trade gap
in high tech products. OK a lot of that may well be in assembly and
also in "old hat" chips. Still automation in this field mitigates the
effect of higher US wage levels. The US has allowed itself to fall
behind in mobile phone technology, to take one example.

Once a country is good it tends to stay good. Scandanavia is good and
looks like remaining so. The US got ioff to a poor start because it
lacked a standard. This reflects the poor quality of public policy. A
Europe consisting of a great many countries managed to agree a
standard which the US failed to do.


Why am I compelled to say that the euro will crush the pound before it
does the dollar after reading the above?


2) Creationalism, the view that the World is no older than
the Ice Age.


Quite a lot of people here, most in fact, don't believe in
that. Still, the fundamentalist conservatives are inhibiting
progress.


3) Governmenr interference with things like Stem Cell
research.


Got more specific examples; this seems trivial by itself.


If you read me carefully you would realise that there is no single
factor. The important factor is attracting young people into science.
Obama wants to end the ban on stem cell research. That will do no
good, you cannot have a research program which proceeds in fits and
starts.

One other serious consideration is the nature of the Genesis story
itself. No one can say CERN will melt the Antarctic ice cap (as in the
Garden of Eden). Black holes are (just) semi respectable. Overiding
everything is the feeling that there are areas of knowledge we should
not be enquiring into. This is to me immensely damaging.

Fundamentalism has little effect in Europe and none at all in the Far
East. It is as well to remember this.


Even the Muslims who are hellbent on destroying infidels? Yes, I know
you meant Christianity.

4) The US is now a lot less welcoming to foreigners than it
was in the time of Kennedy.


You don't live here, do you? *Spanish has become the 2nd
national language by default. *We're not as bilingual as
Canada but our economic wealth attracts much immigration.


I was talking in the main about the ease of obtaining student visas
etc. The "war" on Terror. Al Qaeda say they are religious yet they are
overwhemingly supporting Europe and China. That isd what historians of
the future will conclude. I think they will be even less happy with
what will follow US dominance than they are with the US.

If you were taking a history exam in the mid to late 21st century you
would be expected to list all these factors in a question about the
decline of US science and (ultimately) US political power.


Assuming that actually happens. Somebody has to lead the world away
from fossil fuel, why not the US?

Eric
  #20  
Old September 9th 08, 03:52 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.environment,sci.physics,sci.chem
Eric Chomko[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,853
Default United States Falling Behind EVERYONE In Physics, Science,Rockets, EVERYTHING.

On Sep 9, 1:50*am, kT wrote:
Bill Penrose wrote:
On Sep 6, 7:53 pm, kT wrote:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/157514


One look at NASA's Orion on Ares I (Constellation) and it's easy to see,
* up front and personal, the tragic and inevitable decline of science,
physics and rocketry in the United States.


But we're way ahead in intelligent design, flat earth theory, and
alternate logical systems.


In America, one has complete freedom ... to be an idiot.


Hey all those guides for idiots have to have an audience.
 




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