A Space & astronomy forum. SpaceBanter.com

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » SpaceBanter.com forum » Space Science » History
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

...Article...Obama Moves to Counter China With Pentagon-NASA Link



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old January 6th 09, 01:38 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,rec.aviation.military
jonathan[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 485
Default ...Article...Obama Moves to Counter China With Pentagon-NASA Link


Looks like a classic trial balloon to me, to cancel the stick and go
with EELV's to me! Contrary to what the article says, cancelling
the stick means cancelling the moon...imho.

I've said many times, it's the Chinese that's driving our space policy now
and right into the hands of the Pentagon.

.................................

Obama Moves to Counter China With Pentagon-NASA Link
Demian Mclean - Fri Jan 2, 3:58 pm ET

(Excerpts)

Obama's transition team is considering a collaboration between
the Defense Department and the National Aeronautics and Space
Administration because military rockets may be cheaper and ready
sooner than the space agency's planned launch vehicle, which isn't
slated to fly until 2015, according to people who've discussed the
idea with the Obama team.

Obama has said the Pentagon's space program -- which spent
about $22 billion in fiscal year 2008, almost a third more than
NASA's budget -- could be tapped to speed the civilian agency
toward its goals as the recession pressures federal
spending.

The potential change comes as Pentagon concerns are rising
over China's space ambitions because of what is perceived as an
eventual threat to U.S. defense satellites, the lofty battlefield eyes
of the military.

To boost cooperation between NASA and the Pentagon, Obama
has promised to revive the National Aeronautics and Space Council,
which oversaw the entire space arena for four presidents, most
actively from 1958 to 1973.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20...g/aovrno0oj41g














Ads
  #2  
Old January 6th 09, 02:02 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,rec.aviation.military
Rand Simberg[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,311
Default ...Article...Obama Moves to Counter China With Pentagon-NASA Link

On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 20:38:25 -0500, in a place far, far away,
"jonathan" made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:


Looks like a classic trial balloon to me, to cancel the stick and go
with EELV's to me! Contrary to what the article says, cancelling
the stick means cancelling the moon...imho.

I've said many times, it's the Chinese that's driving our space policy now
and right into the hands of the Pentagon.

................................

Obama Moves to Counter China With Pentagon-NASA Link
Demian Mclean - Fri Jan 2, 3:58 pm ET

(Excerpts)

Obama's transition team is considering a collaboration between
the Defense Department and the National Aeronautics and Space
Administration because military rockets may be cheaper and ready
sooner than the space agency's planned launch vehicle, which isn't
slated to fly until 2015, according to people who've discussed the
idea with the Obama team.


That's an idiotic article. The reporter has no clue about either
space policy in general, or what the Obama transition team plans.
There is no "collaboration" required between the AF and NASA for them
to use EELVs, and it has nothing to do with China. NASA has been
using EELVs all along.
  #3  
Old January 6th 09, 02:15 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,rec.aviation.military
jonathan[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 485
Default ...Article...Obama Moves to Counter China With Pentagon-NASA Link


"Rand Simberg" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 20:38:25 -0500, in a place far, far away,
"jonathan" made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:


Looks like a classic trial balloon to me, to cancel the stick and go
with EELV's to me! Contrary to what the article says, cancelling
the stick means cancelling the moon...imho.

I've said many times, it's the Chinese that's driving our space policy now
and right into the hands of the Pentagon.

................................

Obama Moves to Counter China With Pentagon-NASA Link
Demian Mclean - Fri Jan 2, 3:58 pm ET

(Excerpts)

Obama's transition team is considering a collaboration between
the Defense Department and the National Aeronautics and Space
Administration because military rockets may be cheaper and ready
sooner than the space agency's planned launch vehicle, which isn't
slated to fly until 2015, according to people who've discussed the
idea with the Obama team.


That's an idiotic article. The reporter has no clue about either
space policy in general, or what the Obama transition team plans.
There is no "collaboration" required between the AF and NASA for them
to use EELVs, and it has nothing to do with China. NASA has been
using EELVs all along.

'

The comment about "Pentagon EELV's" was kinda odd.
I thought they were built by Boeing/Lockheed.

But this looks like something the administration might 'leak' out
and see what happens. With the key point being canceling the stick
in favor of EELV's. And the key justification for new policy being
the Chinese 'space race' amidst tight economic conditions.

So in trying to figure out what might become of NASA policy, we
should be trying to figure out what the military wants and needs.

Which I believe means putting an end to the new Ares rockets.
And replacing the shuttle with EELV's, for the short term, with
the long term program becoming the military space plane
instead of a moon shot.











  #4  
Old January 6th 09, 02:21 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,rec.aviation.military
Rand Simberg[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,311
Default ...Article...Obama Moves to Counter China With Pentagon-NASA Link

On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 21:15:03 -0500, in a place far, far away,
"jonathan" made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:


"Rand Simberg" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 20:38:25 -0500, in a place far, far away,
"jonathan" made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:


Looks like a classic trial balloon to me, to cancel the stick and go
with EELV's to me! Contrary to what the article says, cancelling
the stick means cancelling the moon...imho.

I've said many times, it's the Chinese that's driving our space policy now
and right into the hands of the Pentagon.

................................

Obama Moves to Counter China With Pentagon-NASA Link
Demian Mclean - Fri Jan 2, 3:58 pm ET

(Excerpts)

Obama's transition team is considering a collaboration between
the Defense Department and the National Aeronautics and Space
Administration because military rockets may be cheaper and ready
sooner than the space agency's planned launch vehicle, which isn't
slated to fly until 2015, according to people who've discussed the
idea with the Obama team.


That's an idiotic article. The reporter has no clue about either
space policy in general, or what the Obama transition team plans.
There is no "collaboration" required between the AF and NASA for them
to use EELVs, and it has nothing to do with China. NASA has been
using EELVs all along.

'

The comment about "Pentagon EELV's" was kinda odd.
I thought they were built by Boeing/Lockheed.


They are.

But this looks like something the administration might 'leak' out
and see what happens.


No, it's just an idiot reporter completely misinterpreting what he was
told by the transition team.
  #5  
Old January 6th 09, 04:14 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,rec.aviation.military
Matt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 258
Default ...Article...Obama Moves to Counter China With Pentagon-NASA Link

The headlines in other publications have gotten really crazy: "Report:
Obama May Merge NASA, Pentagon Space Programs" on Fox News. There are
even more sensational examples... none of them with a basis in
reality.

It all started with this Bloomberg item saying the Obama
administration might turn the mission of launching NASA's Orion
capsule from the planned Ares I over to "military rockets" - the Atlas
or Delta EELVs - " because military rockets may be cheaper and ready
sooner than the space agency's planned launch vehicle." Other outlets
picked up on Bloomberg and took it to the point of alleging a "merger"
without ever noticing the premise was wrong and that no merger is even
being contemplated.

The Bloomberg story as spectacularly uninformed. The Atlas and Delta
EELVs are not purely military rockets: NASA can purchase them
commercially from United Launch Alliance (ULA) any time they want.
EELVs carry commercial satellites and NASA payloads like the GOES
series. What NASA would have to pay ULA to do is build a man-rated
version, which the Pentagon has no interest in. It's also not clear
where NASA and DoD ties need to be closer: they cooperate every day on
everything from range operations to the significant military support
to shuttle launches to missions like Orbital Express and vehicles like
the X-43.

Matt Bille
Freelance space writer/historian
http://mattbille.blogspot.com
  #6  
Old January 6th 09, 04:27 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,rec.aviation.military
Rand Simberg[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,311
Default ...Article...Obama Moves to Counter China With Pentagon-NASA Link

On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 20:14:03 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
Matt made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such
a way as to indicate that:

The headlines in other publications have gotten really crazy: "Report:
Obama May Merge NASA, Pentagon Space Programs" on Fox News. There are
even more sensational examples... none of them with a basis in
reality.

It all started with this Bloomberg item saying the Obama
administration might turn the mission of launching NASA's Orion
capsule from the planned Ares I over to "military rockets" - the Atlas
or Delta EELVs - " because military rockets may be cheaper and ready
sooner than the space agency's planned launch vehicle." Other outlets
picked up on Bloomberg and took it to the point of alleging a "merger"
without ever noticing the premise was wrong and that no merger is even
being contemplated.

The Bloomberg story as spectacularly uninformed. The Atlas and Delta
EELVs are not purely military rockets: NASA can purchase them
commercially from United Launch Alliance (ULA) any time they want.
EELVs carry commercial satellites and NASA payloads like the GOES
series. What NASA would have to pay ULA to do is build a man-rated
version, which the Pentagon has no interest in. It's also not clear
where NASA and DoD ties need to be closer: they cooperate every day on
everything from range operations to the significant military support
to shuttle launches to missions like Orbital Express and vehicles like
the X-43.


I agree. In fact, I'll have a piece tomorrow at Pajamas Media
completely debunking this nonsense.
  #7  
Old January 6th 09, 01:39 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,rec.aviation.military
Rand Simberg[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,311
Default ...Article...Obama Moves to Counter China With Pentagon-NASA Link

On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 20:14:03 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
Matt made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such
a way as to indicate that:

The headlines in other publications have gotten really crazy: "Report:
Obama May Merge NASA, Pentagon Space Programs" on Fox News. There are
even more sensational examples... none of them with a basis in
reality.

It all started with this Bloomberg item saying the Obama
administration might turn the mission of launching NASA's Orion
capsule from the planned Ares I over to "military rockets" - the Atlas
or Delta EELVs - " because military rockets may be cheaper and ready
sooner than the space agency's planned launch vehicle." Other outlets
picked up on Bloomberg and took it to the point of alleging a "merger"
without ever noticing the premise was wrong and that no merger is even
being contemplated.

The Bloomberg story as spectacularly uninformed. The Atlas and Delta
EELVs are not purely military rockets: NASA can purchase them
commercially from United Launch Alliance (ULA) any time they want.
EELVs carry commercial satellites and NASA payloads like the GOES
series. What NASA would have to pay ULA to do is build a man-rated
version, which the Pentagon has no interest in. It's also not clear
where NASA and DoD ties need to be closer: they cooperate every day on
everything from range operations to the significant military support
to shuttle launches to missions like Orbital Express and vehicles like
the X-43.


Here's my piece on this silliness today:

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/media-b...as-nasa-plans/
  #8  
Old January 7th 09, 01:03 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,rec.aviation.military
jonathan[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 485
Default ...Article...Obama Moves to Counter China With Pentagon-NASA Link


"Matt" wrote in message
...
The headlines in other publications have gotten really crazy: "Report:
Obama May Merge NASA, Pentagon Space Programs" on Fox News. There are
even more sensational examples... none of them with a basis in
reality.

It all started with this Bloomberg item saying the Obama
administration might turn the mission of launching NASA's Orion
capsule from the planned Ares I over to "military rockets" - the Atlas
or Delta EELVs - " because military rockets may be cheaper and ready
sooner than the space agency's planned launch vehicle." Other outlets
picked up on Bloomberg and took it to the point of alleging a "merger"
without ever noticing the premise was wrong and that no merger is even
being contemplated.

The Bloomberg story as spectacularly uninformed. The Atlas and Delta
EELVs are not purely military rockets: NASA can purchase them
commercially from United Launch Alliance (ULA) any time they want.
EELVs carry commercial satellites and NASA payloads like the GOES
series. What NASA would have to pay ULA to do is build a man-rated
version, which the Pentagon has no interest in. It's also not clear
where NASA and DoD ties need to be closer: they cooperate every day on
everything from range operations to the significant military support
to shuttle launches to missions like Orbital Express and vehicles like
the X-43.



All that is true, but it misses the point. This has every aspect of a
trial balloon coming indirectly from the incoming administration.
Neal Lane is quoted and is most definitely an insider, not just
another talking head.
http://clinton2.nara.gov/WH/EOP/OSTP/html/lanebio.html

The point of this article seems to be that both NASA and the military
want new launchers, but we shouldn't hold our breath on getting
both Ares and some military space plane. Since national security
and economic needs will have the priority.

And if this is a trial balloon, it doesn't take much reading between
the lines to see that Ares 5 at least and the moon are already history.
And our next generation of launchers will be EELV's for now
and some new military space plane down the road.

Maybe the first true space plane...at last.

And I'm all for it, I think it's the smart thing to do. And I believe
Obama can be counted on to make intelligent decisions that
make sense.

Our future needs low cost to orbit, and it most certainly
is NOT in conventional liquid/solid fueled rockets.
If for no other reason than the pollution from the massive
numbers of flights required for significantly exploiting space
in the future.

We should be continuing on the X-33 - X-47 path to some
more advanced space plane.



Matt Bille
Freelance space writer/historian
http://mattbille.blogspot.com




  #9  
Old January 7th 09, 01:07 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,rec.aviation.military
jonathan[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 485
Default ...Article...Obama Moves to Counter China With Pentagon-NASA Link


"Rand Simberg" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 20:14:03 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
Matt made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such
a way as to indicate that:

The headlines in other publications have gotten really crazy: "Report:
Obama May Merge NASA, Pentagon Space Programs" on Fox News. There are
even more sensational examples... none of them with a basis in
reality.

It all started with this Bloomberg item saying the Obama
administration might turn the mission of launching NASA's Orion
capsule from the planned Ares I over to "military rockets" - the Atlas
or Delta EELVs - " because military rockets may be cheaper and ready
sooner than the space agency's planned launch vehicle." Other outlets
picked up on Bloomberg and took it to the point of alleging a "merger"
without ever noticing the premise was wrong and that no merger is even
being contemplated.

The Bloomberg story as spectacularly uninformed. The Atlas and Delta
EELVs are not purely military rockets: NASA can purchase them
commercially from United Launch Alliance (ULA) any time they want.
EELVs carry commercial satellites and NASA payloads like the GOES
series. What NASA would have to pay ULA to do is build a man-rated
version, which the Pentagon has no interest in. It's also not clear
where NASA and DoD ties need to be closer: they cooperate every day on
everything from range operations to the significant military support
to shuttle launches to missions like Orbital Express and vehicles like
the X-43.


I agree. In fact, I'll have a piece tomorrow at Pajamas Media
completely debunking this nonsense.



Good luck, Obama trial balloons are floating all over the place
right now, from one end of his agenda to the other. This has
all the earmarks of the administration floating early policy
to see the reaction.










  #10  
Old January 7th 09, 01:23 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,rec.aviation.military
jonathan[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 485
Default ...Article...Obama Moves to Counter China With Pentagon-NASA Link


"Rand Simberg" wrote in message
...

Here's my piece on this silliness today:

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/media-b...as-nasa-plans/



You wrote...

"The only problem with this is that - unless they are talking about
some other vehicles, and if so, it's hard to imagine what they are
- the EELVs aren't "military rockets."

The military is launching the little X-47b next month. Why? Just to
blow a hundred million?

Come on! Wake up and smell what's brewing!

The military has made it clear they want a far more advanced
and capable spacecraft then envisioned with either the X-33
or 47b.



 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
...Article...Obama Moves to Counter China With Pentagon-NASA Link jonathan[_3_] Policy 24 January 9th 09 05:15 PM
CMOS vs. CCD -- Link to Article Davoud Amateur Astronomy 11 December 5th 05 04:27 PM
After the Beijing Olympics...China Will Go For Taiwan! China Threatens to Nuke US (article) jonathan Policy 29 August 2nd 05 11:35 PM
Europe moves forward while U.S. moves backward? vthokie Policy 31 May 26th 04 02:12 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2022 SpaceBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.