Tal 2m or Explorer 150/200?

Hi,

I'm a newcomer to Astronomy but have used binoculars on and off over the
years and read a few books because it's a subject that has always interested
me.

I'm interested in buying a first telescope and have a budget of up to around
£400. I am interested in a telescope that will enable me to view planets
and deep sky objects in reasonable quality and am quite keen to use the
scope for photography via digicam.

I have spent a bit of time considering what to buy. I live on the outskirts
of a Surrey town in a small modern close. Unfortunately I do not have
unobstructed views in all directions due a neigbours trees down the side of
my back garden and of course my and others houses. I havce a fairly
unobstructed sky at the front of my house but am not sure if I will look a
bit daft to the odd passer by (it's a quiet residential cul de sac!)

I'm trying to decide between say a Tal 2m (£400) or the Skywatcher 150
(£350) or possibly the Skywatcher 200 newt (£430) and which is around £535
if motorised and I suspect it would need to be for astrophotography.

I also like the idea of go-to and connecting my scope to a laptop to drive
it while sitting in the comfort of the lounge viewing things but am unsure
if either of these scopes could ever be adaped to such use and in fact for
that you're into buying a Meade or CRestron SCT and a whole lot more
budget!

I'd really welcome views on which if any of the above would seem to be the
best option. How much difference is there on say views of Mars between the
Tal and the 8" Skywatcher? Would you want to drag any of them around from
the back garden to the front? Am I better to set one up in my relatively
secure back garden and leave it there permanently? - maybe chained up and
covered?

Interested in views from the experts out there. I am keen to buy a scope
that I won't grow frustrated with due to poor views and have been somewhat
spoiled by seeing what a Meade LX90 8" can do!

Many thanks,

Jon

No technical advice for you, but if those two Skywatchers you mentioned are
the dobsonians, they are way overpriced. Look at Sherwoods site for an idea
of prices.

Garry

Garry,

Thanks for the reply - they are both Newtonians -
http://www.swoptics.co.uk/view.asp?KEY=819 and Sherwoods are one of the
stores I was looking at because they seem very good.

I have also spoken to Telescope house and am curious about their Bresser
Messier n203 8" equatorial reflector at £350. How would this compare to the
Skywatcher Explorer 8"?

Grateful for any input - especially because I plan to pop into Telescope
House later today and may end up finally buying something!.

Thanks,

Jonathan
"garry parker" wrote in message
...
No technical advice for you, but if those two Skywatchers you mentioned
are
the dobsonians, they are way overpriced. Look at Sherwoods site for an
idea
of prices.

Garry

"Saxon" wrote in message
...
Garry,

Thanks for the reply - they are both Newtonians -
http://www.swoptics.co.uk/view.asp?KEY=819 and Sherwoods are one of the
stores I was looking at because they seem very good.

I have also spoken to Telescope house and am curious about their Bresser
Messier n203 8" equatorial reflector at £350. How would this compare to
the
Skywatcher Explorer 8"?

Grateful for any input - especially because I plan to pop into Telescope
House later today and may end up finally buying something!.

Thanks,

Jonathan
"garry parker" wrote in message
...
No technical advice for you, but if those two Skywatchers you mentioned
are
the dobsonians, they are way overpriced. Look at Sherwoods site for an
idea
of prices.

Garry


I'm sorry about this, I got the Explorer range confused with the dobsonian
Skyliner range! I'll keep quiet now and let someone a bit more intelligent
chip in!

Garry

Hi Jon,

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 15:30:52 GMT, "Saxon"
wrote:
I'm interested in buying a first telescope and have a budget of up to around
£400. I am interested in a telescope that will enable me to view planets
and deep sky objects in reasonable quality and am quite keen to use the
scope for photography via digicam.

To see all the planets, up to Pluto, I recommend an 8 inch 'scope as a
minimum. To do any web cam imaging of the nearer planets a reasonably
good steady mount is required, an EQ5 or better.

I have spent a bit of time considering what to buy. I live on the outskirts
of a Surrey town in a small modern close. Unfortunately I do not have
unobstructed views in all directions due a neigbours trees down the side of
my back garden and of course my and others houses. I have a fairly
unobstructed sky at the front of my house but am not sure if I will look a
bit daft to the odd passer by (it's a quiet residential cul de sac!)

Which way faces south? That direction is your main planetary observing
area, from east round to west if possible.

I'm trying to decide between say a Tal 2m (£400) or the Skywatcher 150
(£350) or possibly the Skywatcher 200 newt (£430) and which is around £535
if motorised and I suspect it would need to be for astrophotography.

I also like the idea of go-to and connecting my scope to a laptop to drive
it while sitting in the comfort of the lounge viewing things but am unsure
if either of these scopes could ever be adaped to such use and in fact for
that you're into buying a Meade or CRestron SCT and a whole lot more
budget!

The Tal can't be motorised on the Dec axis so can't be goto'd.
Skywatcher mounts can have drives on both axes but computerising them
is, not impossible but ia a bit of a DIY job and can be problematic.
The Skywatcher HEQ5 and EQ6 mounts can be goto'd.

The Skywatcher 200 EQ5 or 200 HEQ5 are contenders and the HEQ5 has
built in drives and is a steadier mount (and can be goto'd). However,
they are both F5 scopes and for planetary viewing a longer focal
length is preferable so as to achieve higher magnifications more
easily. The Tal-2M is better in this respect at F7.3 (but it is much
smaller in aperture). For deep sky objects the F5 scopes are more
suitable.

I'd really welcome views on which if any of the above would seem to be the
best option. How much difference is there on say views of Mars between the
Tal and the 8" Skywatcher?

There would be a significant difference, very noticeable, due to the
77% increase in aperture.

Would you want to drag any of them around from
the back garden to the front? Am I better to set one up in my relatively
secure back garden and leave it there permanently? - maybe chained up and
covered?

All these 'scopes are quite large and require some considerable
setting up for an evening's observing. I used to have a Tal-2M and
found it quite awkward to lift and carry, even in its main component
parts; that's one of the reasons that the more expensive
schmidt-cassegrain telescopes are popular.

I wouldn't leave a whole telescope permenantly set-up in any gardern
it's just too much of a theft or vandalism risk. There are also
condensation problems to deal with. You can instal a permenant pier to
attach you mount to, once you've decided on the best location and that
is what many people do.

As for achieving a fully remote set-up, it's much more difficult than
you might imagine. Plan on being there out under the stars to begin
with.

Interested in views from the experts out there. I am keen to buy a scope
that I won't grow frustrated with due to poor views and have been somewhat
spoiled by seeing what a Meade LX90 8" can do!

Bigger is always better in telescopes, but, you could always go for
something slightly smaller and much easier to set-up. The Skywatcher
maksutovs are good, the 127mm one is a bit on the small side but will
give you good views of Jupiter, Mars and Saturn. It comes as standard
on a EQ3-2 mount with no drives for about 400 GBP and you could always
negotiate a EQ5 mount and a drive or two at the time of purchase (for
extra dosh of course). This would give you a nice planetary set-up
that's reasonably easy to carry and gives good views for the money. It
won't be so good for feint deep sky objects, can't be easily goto'd
and is more tricky to collimate than a newtonian, but can give very
good planetary results via a web cam; See Kevin McCarthy's site at:

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/smallscope/index.htm

If you do get an EQ5 upgrade then it will be quite easy to buy another
OTA with the sandard EQ5 dovetail to go on it should aperture fever
strike you later (it usually does!).

If you want to be able to goto your mount later then something on the
HEQ5 mount is worth considering, although at 439 GBP it's not a
particularly cheap upgrade, you'd end up spending 1000 GBP and are
then at the cost of a Meade LXD75 schmidt newtonian.

Cheers

- Mike

Chaps (Mike especially),

Many many thanks for the comprehensive reply - it's greatly appreciated when
those with experience stop to help those just starting out. I am pleased to
report that I did buy a scope yesterday but it ended up being one that
wasn't on my shortlist. I went in to Telescope House and they helped me
choose a Bresser Messier N203 8" Newtonian reflector
http://www.telescopehouse.co.uk/page...0C0&action=lnk
which along with a basic filter pack and the two axis motordrive ended up
coming to £450 with SPA discount. The scope seems to bear some resemblance
to the Meade LXD75 range in terms of both mount and according to Telescope
House the optics too although I believe assembly is of course done in China.
Overall I was extremely impressed with the fit and finish and it certainly
felt like a well engineered product for the price, the tripod for example
not dramatically different from that on the LX90. I spent a very enjoyable
few hours putting the scope together and achieved first light around 7.45pm.
It was such a thrill to see how many stars were visible through the scope in
any patch of sky. I closed in on Mars which by now was starting to approach
my neigbours trees on the South West side of the back garden. I moved
through the eyepieces - 25mm, 15mm, 10mm and then 10mm with 2x Barlow, still
fumbling for the RA and DEC levers in the dark and trying to get used to the
strange motion of my first equatorially mounted experience! One thing I
found very tricky was adjusting the height of the tripod with the scope
attached - I'm presuming this is best accomplished before the scope is
mounted! I ended up either stooped or kneeling most of the time!

Eventually I got Mars nicely centred although did find that at 180x
magnification even adjusting focus caused the planet to move around in the
view. I presume this is normal on a lower end telescope -or should I
tighten the eyepiece screws more? I was rewarded with an obvious orange
sphere only occasionally exhibiting surface patches. I couldn't see any ice
caps or anything but my goodness it was a thrill!! I wouldn't say the image
was tack sharp either, but it's hard to know if that was related to the fact
I haven't collimated the scope yet, the quality of the bundled eyepieces or
just the general seeing conditions on the fringes of the M25.

I was just turning my attention to Orion and the Orion Nebula which was
prominent in the Southern sky last night when the clouds rolled in and I
realiseed that by 21.30 my opportunity for observing was done for the night.
Can't wait for tomorrow now!!

I haven't yet connected the motor drive control, I wanted to get a feel for
the manual handling of the scope. I'm really looking forward to seeing the
moon later in the month along with Saturn and Jupiter. I'm chuffed to bits
after having an interest in the subject for 30 years (I still have my Hamlyn
Book of Astronomy 1975!) that I finally own my first telescope.

One final query - I know that my 90mm focal length isn't ideal for planetary
observing but the chaps at Telescope House stillreckoned it would produce
better results than the 6 inch reflector with 1200mm focal length. It's
tempting to push the magnification beyond the 10mm Plossl and 2x Barlow with
a 5mm Pplossl which would give me around 360x magnification (approaching the
50x per inch theoretical maximum). The chaps in Telescope House did say
that getting clear images above 200x magnification depended greatly on
seeing conditions and was rarely achievable in practice. Would you chaps
agree with this or would a 5mm give me even greater usable magnification?

Either way I'm delighted - many many thanks for all advice and a Happy New
Year once again to all of you.

Jon
"Mike Murphy" evmurph.zetnet@co@uk wrote in message
...
Hi Jon,

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 15:30:52 GMT, "Saxon"
wrote:
I'm interested in buying a first telescope and have a budget of up to
around
£400. I am interested in a telescope that will enable me to view planets
and deep sky objects in reasonable quality and am quite keen to use the
scope for photography via digicam.

To see all the planets, up to Pluto, I recommend an 8 inch 'scope as a
minimum. To do any web cam imaging of the nearer planets a reasonably
good steady mount is required, an EQ5 or better.

I have spent a bit of time considering what to buy. I live on the
outskirts
of a Surrey town in a small modern close. Unfortunately I do not have
unobstructed views in all directions due a neigbours trees down the side
of
my back garden and of course my and others houses. I have a fairly
unobstructed sky at the front of my house but am not sure if I will look
a
bit daft to the odd passer by (it's a quiet residential cul de sac!)

Which way faces south? That direction is your main planetary observing
area, from east round to west if possible.

I'm trying to decide between say a Tal 2m (£400) or the Skywatcher 150
(£350) or possibly the Skywatcher 200 newt (£430) and which is around
£535
if motorised and I suspect it would need to be for astrophotography.

I also like the idea of go-to and connecting my scope to a laptop to
drive
it while sitting in the comfort of the lounge viewing things but am
unsure
if either of these scopes could ever be adaped to such use and in fact
for
that you're into buying a Meade or CRestron SCT and a whole lot more
budget!

The Tal can't be motorised on the Dec axis so can't be goto'd.
Skywatcher mounts can have drives on both axes but computerising them
is, not impossible but ia a bit of a DIY job and can be problematic.
The Skywatcher HEQ5 and EQ6 mounts can be goto'd.

The Skywatcher 200 EQ5 or 200 HEQ5 are contenders and the HEQ5 has
built in drives and is a steadier mount (and can be goto'd). However,
they are both F5 scopes and for planetary viewing a longer focal
length is preferable so as to achieve higher magnifications more
easily. The Tal-2M is better in this respect at F7.3 (but it is much
smaller in aperture). For deep sky objects the F5 scopes are more
suitable.

I'd really welcome views on which if any of the above would seem to be
the
best option. How much difference is there on say views of Mars between
the
Tal and the 8" Skywatcher?

There would be a significant difference, very noticeable, due to the
77% increase in aperture.

Would you want to drag any of them around from
the back garden to the front? Am I better to set one up in my relatively
secure back garden and leave it there permanently? - maybe chained up and
covered?

All these 'scopes are quite large and require some considerable
setting up for an evening's observing. I used to have a Tal-2M and
found it quite awkward to lift and carry, even in its main component
parts; that's one of the reasons that the more expensive
schmidt-cassegrain telescopes are popular.

I wouldn't leave a whole telescope permenantly set-up in any gardern
it's just too much of a theft or vandalism risk. There are also
condensation problems to deal with. You can instal a permenant pier to
attach you mount to, once you've decided on the best location and that
is what many people do.

As for achieving a fully remote set-up, it's much more difficult than
you might imagine. Plan on being there out under the stars to begin
with.

Interested in views from the experts out there. I am keen to buy a scope
that I won't grow frustrated with due to poor views and have been
somewhat
spoiled by seeing what a Meade LX90 8" can do!

Bigger is always better in telescopes, but, you could always go for
something slightly smaller and much easier to set-up. The Skywatcher
maksutovs are good, the 127mm one is a bit on the small side but will
give you good views of Jupiter, Mars and Saturn. It comes as standard
on a EQ3-2 mount with no drives for about 400 GBP and you could always
negotiate a EQ5 mount and a drive or two at the time of purchase (for
extra dosh of course). This would give you a nice planetary set-up
that's reasonably easy to carry and gives good views for the money. It
won't be so good for feint deep sky objects, can't be easily goto'd
and is more tricky to collimate than a newtonian, but can give very
good planetary results via a web cam; See Kevin McCarthy's site at:

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/smallscope/index.htm

If you do get an EQ5 upgrade then it will be quite easy to buy another
OTA with the sandard EQ5 dovetail to go on it should aperture fever
strike you later (it usually does!).

If you want to be able to goto your mount later then something on the
HEQ5 mount is worth considering, although at 439 GBP it's not a
particularly cheap upgrade, you'd end up spending 1000 GBP and are
then at the cost of a Meade LXD75 schmidt newtonian.

Cheers

- Mike

Eventually I got Mars nicely centred although did find that at 180x
magnification even adjusting focus caused the planet to move around in the
view. I presume this is normal on a lower end telescope -or should I
tighten the eyepiece screws more? I was rewarded with an obvious orange
sphere only occasionally exhibiting surface patches. I couldn't see any
ice
caps or anything but my goodness it was a thrill!!

Sounds about right. It does improve occasionally though so keep trying.

I wouldn't say the image
was tack sharp either, but it's hard to know if that was related to the
fact
I haven't collimated the scope yet,

Try
http://larryg54.home.texas.net/collimat/notools2.html
Make yourself a little laser collimator to speed things up.

that getting clear images above 200x magnification depended greatly on
seeing conditions and was rarely achievable in practice. Would you chaps
agree with this or would a 5mm give me even greater usable magnification?

I'd go for a 6 or 7mm Orthoscopic or perhaps a Burgess planetary 6mm from
SCS Astro, all under £50 :-)
jc

"Saxon" wrote in message
...
Chaps (Mike especially),

Many many thanks for the comprehensive reply - it's greatly appreciated
when
those with experience stop to help those just starting out. I am
pleased to
report that I did buy a scope yesterday but it ended up being one that
wasn't on my shortlist. I went in to Telescope House and they helped me
choose a Bresser Messier N203 8" Newtonian reflector
http://www.telescopehouse.co.uk/page...0C0&action=lnk
which along with a basic filter pack and the two axis motordrive ended
up
coming to £450 with SPA discount. The scope seems to bear some
resemblance
to the Meade LXD75 range in terms of both mount and according to
Telescope
House the optics too although I believe assembly is of course done in
China.
Overall I was extremely impressed with the fit and finish and it
certainly
felt like a well engineered product for the price, the tripod for
example
not dramatically different from that on the LX90. I spent a very
enjoyable
few hours putting the scope together and achieved first light around
7.45pm.
It was such a thrill to see how many stars were visible through the
scope in
any patch of sky. I closed in on Mars which by now was starting to
approach
my neigbours trees on the South West side of the back garden. I moved
through the eyepieces - 25mm, 15mm, 10mm and then 10mm with 2x Barlow,
still
fumbling for the RA and DEC levers in the dark and trying to get used to
the
strange motion of my first equatorially mounted experience! One thing I
found very tricky was adjusting the height of the tripod with the scope
attached - I'm presuming this is best accomplished before the scope is
mounted! I ended up either stooped or kneeling most of the time!
The LXD75, is basically Chinese as well. It depends which OTA it has. The
SCT's have the optics made in the US, but the Newtonians, are Chinese.

Eventually I got Mars nicely centred although did find that at 180x
magnification even adjusting focus caused the planet to move around in
the
view. I presume this is normal on a lower end telescope -or should I
tighten the eyepiece screws more? I was rewarded with an obvious orange
sphere only occasionally exhibiting surface patches. I couldn't see any
ice
caps or anything but my goodness it was a thrill!! I wouldn't say the
image
was tack sharp either, but it's hard to know if that was related to the
fact
I haven't collimated the scope yet, the quality of the bundled eyepieces
or
just the general seeing conditions on the fringes of the M25.
The eyepiece screws,should make no difference to the focussing. This is
all down to the mount, and is normal to some extent, even on very
up-market kit. This is where an electric focusser helps. You may also be
able to make, something to help. On several scopes, a flexible 'spring'
extension to the focusser knob, can be fitted, and this decouples the
focusser, so that the effect is much less bad. If you are at all
mechanical, you may be able to produce something like this.

I was just turning my attention to Orion and the Orion Nebula which was
prominent in the Southern sky last night when the clouds rolled in and I
realiseed that by 21.30 my opportunity for observing was done for the
night.
Can't wait for tomorrow now!!
Unfortunately, cloud will now follow.... :-(

I haven't yet connected the motor drive control, I wanted to get a feel
for
the manual handling of the scope. I'm really looking forward to seeing
the
moon later in the month along with Saturn and Jupiter. I'm chuffed to
bits
after having an interest in the subject for 30 years (I still have my
Hamlyn
Book of Astronomy 1975!) that I finally own my first telescope.

One final query - I know that my 90mm focal length isn't ideal for
planetary
observing but the chaps at Telescope House stillreckoned it would
produce
better results than the 6 inch reflector with 1200mm focal length. It's
tempting to push the magnification beyond the 10mm Plossl and 2x Barlow
with
a 5mm Pplossl which would give me around 360x magnification (approaching
the
50x per inch theoretical maximum). The chaps in Telescope House did say
that getting clear images above 200x magnification depended greatly on
seeing conditions and was rarely achievable in practice. Would you
chaps
agree with this or would a 5mm give me even greater usable
magnification?

Either way I'm delighted - many many thanks for all advice and a Happy
New
Year once again to all of you.

Jon
Not 90mm focal length. 900mm. Their comments are really spot on. The '50*
per inch' rule, is really very 'flexible'. There are some conditions, when
trying to seperate tight doubles, or looking for the finest planetary
detail, when people push way past this. Conversely though, seeing often
makes even 30* per inch, almost worthless. I'd suggest 'staggering' your
eyepiece lengths. A 5mm eyepiece, really duplicates what you can get with
the Barlow and the 10mm. In instead you get (say), something round a
6.7mm, or a 3.6mm, you then get a better possible 'range' of
magnifications. Unfortuately, the very short focal length eyepieces, can
have rather restricted eye-relief, except in more expensive designs, so
I'd perhaps say something round 6.7mm, might be a good choice, giving you
135*, which is likely to be a very useful magnification, and going to
270*, when conditions are good. It is worth also remembering that
something like a 1" extension tube in the top of the Barlow, will increase
it's magnification, to perhaps 2.6*, for a very minimal cost.

Best Wishes

On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 08:56:32 GMT, "Saxon"
wrote:

Chaps (Mike especially),

Many many thanks for the comprehensive reply - it's greatly appreciated when
those with experience stop to help those just starting out.

You are most welcome.

I am pleased to
report that I did buy a scope yesterday but it ended up being one that
wasn't on my shortlist. I went in to Telescope House and they helped me
choose a Bresser Messier N203 8" Newtonian reflector
http://www.telescopehouse.co.uk/page...0C0&action=lnk
which along with a basic filter pack and the two axis motordrive ended up
coming to £450 with SPA discount.

Sounds like good value.

The scope seems to bear some resemblance
to the Meade LXD75 range in terms of both mount and according to Telescope
House the optics too although I believe assembly is of course done in China.
Overall I was extremely impressed with the fit and finish and it certainly
felt like a well engineered product for the price, the tripod for example
not dramatically different from that on the LX90. I spent a very enjoyable
few hours putting the scope together and achieved first light around 7.45pm.
It was such a thrill to see how many stars were visible through the scope in
any patch of sky.
I closed in on Mars which by now was starting to approach
my neigbours trees on the South West side of the back garden. I moved
through the eyepieces - 25mm, 15mm, 10mm and then 10mm with 2x Barlow, still
fumbling for the RA and DEC levers in the dark and trying to get used to the
strange motion of my first equatorially mounted experience! One thing I
found very tricky was adjusting the height of the tripod with the scope
attached - I'm presuming this is best accomplished before the scope is
mounted! I ended up either stooped or kneeling most of the time!

Yes, get the height sorted first is the usual way. Somethimes it's
better to have it low down to mitigate the effects of any wind that's
blowing.

Eventually I got Mars nicely centred although did find that at 180x
magnification even adjusting focus caused the planet to move around in the
view. I presume this is normal on a lower end telescope -or should I
tighten the eyepiece screws more?

It is normal on almost any telescope, with practice you should find
that you will become more skilled at focussing.

I was rewarded with an obvious orange
sphere only occasionally exhibiting surface patches. I couldn't see any ice
caps or anything but my goodness it was a thrill!!

If you saw some surface markings you are doing well. The ice caps are
not really visible now anyway. It is also getting quite small, Sky Map
Pro reports it at 11.98" today and many stop observing Mars when it
gets below 10".

I wouldn't say the image
was tack sharp either, but it's hard to know if that was related to the fact
I haven't collimated the scope yet, the quality of the bundled eyepieces or
just the general seeing conditions on the fringes of the M25.

Prabably the seeing, some nights it's just awful but on others it can
be really good. Don't get into trying to collimate it yet, use it for
a few weeks at least first.

I haven't yet connected the motor drive control, I wanted to get a feel for
the manual handling of the scope.

The motor drive makes it much easier to view at high powers, worth
getting it into operation.

I'm really looking forward to seeing the
moon later in the month along with Saturn and Jupiter.

Take a gander at Saturn as soon as you can, it is one of the objects
that make all the money seem worth while.

I'm chuffed to bits
after having an interest in the subject for 30 years (I still have my Hamlyn
Book of Astronomy 1975!) that I finally own my first telescope.

One final query - I know that my 90mm focal length isn't ideal for planetary
observing but the chaps at Telescope House stillreckoned it would produce
better results than the 6 inch reflector with 1200mm focal length. It's
tempting to push the magnification beyond the 10mm Plossl and 2x Barlow with
a 5mm Pplossl which would give me around 360x magnification (approaching the
50x per inch theoretical maximum). The chaps in Telescope House did say
that getting clear images above 200x magnification depended greatly on
seeing conditions and was rarely achievable in practice. Would you chaps
agree with this or would a 5mm give me even greater usable magnification?

Going from 180x to 360x is quite a big jump. Something around the 260x
mark is probably more like it, say a 7mm and a 2x barlow. But use what
you've got for now because you may find that particular eyepieces are
better for you than others; I like the Vixen LV series, for example.

Either way I'm delighted - many many thanks for all advice and a Happy New
Year once again to all of you.

Happy new year and clear skies

- Mike