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Hi all
"Pat Flannery" wrote in message ... Peter Stickney wrote: WEspecially since the Saturn spread its noise over a wide path in spae and time as it climbed out, and the N-1 concentrated it's noise by releasing it all at once. Well, one N-1 _almost_ got to the end of its first stage burn before it blew up. :-) Actually, it would be interesting to figure out if the 30 N-1 first-stage motors or five Saturn V first stage motors made more noise. Since the F-1s were larger, did they generate a lower frequency sound? I'm just guessing here but how do the very large chemical explosions used to calibrate sensors before the Trinity (that is the right name - Manhatten Project first A-bomb) test weight in? What about that explosion in that Canadian port (harbour?) during WWI (I can't remember the name, something with a 'H'), that was supposed to be in the kiloton range. It erased substancial portions of the town. As impressive as the Saturn V and N-1 were can they really outweigh thousands of tons of TNT or ammonia nitrate all unwrapping itself in the same instant? Pat I'm not an expert on these matters, and I'd much rather watch and listen to a Saturn V rising into the clouds than see (or hear the cause of ) a mushroom cloud ascending into the heavens. Regards Frank Scrooby |
#12
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"Frank Scrooby" wrote in message ... What about that explosion in that Canadian port (harbour?) during WWI (I can't remember the name, something with a 'H'), that was supposed to be in the kiloton range. It erased substancial portions of the town. Halifax Regards Frank Scrooby |
#13
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I can attest to the fact that the Saturn V was loud. I witnessed the
Apollo 15, 16 and 17 launches from Titusville. I couldn't believe it was that loud that far away. For many of those of us who have "felt" the Saturn V, it seems like a big mistake to have discarded such a great weight lifter. I believe that bird could lift 100 tons into low earth orbit while the Shuttle has never done its maximum of 20. Wish we still had the Saturn for lifting cargo. Bill On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:03:53 -0400, Bill wrote: I have heard that the first Saturn V launch is still in the Guinness Book of World Records as the loudest man-made, non-nuclear sound in history. I also heard (somewhere) that it broke windows out of houses in Melbourne and they had to install sound dampening skirts on the first stage. Anyone know if this is correct? |
#14
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In message , Bill
writes On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:03:53 -0400, Bill wrote: I have heard that the first Saturn V launch is still in the Guinness Book of World Records as the loudest man-made, non-nuclear sound in history. I also heard (somewhere) that it broke windows out of houses in Melbourne and they had to install sound dampening skirts on the first stage. Anyone know if this is correct? I can attest to the fact that the Saturn V was loud. I witnessed the Apollo 15, 16 and 17 launches from Titusville. I couldn't believe it was that loud that far away. For many of those of us who have "felt" the Saturn V, it seems like a big mistake to have discarded such a great weight lifter. I believe that bird could lift 100 tons into low earth orbit while the Shuttle has never done its maximum of 20. Wish we still had the Saturn for lifting cargo. 120 metric tons, according to http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=5772&sequence=2. And as many people have noted, a modern version would have modern materials and avionics and do even better. -- What have they got to hide? Release the ESA Beagle 2 report. Remove spam and invalid from address to reply. |
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"Frank Scrooby" ) writes: Hi all "Pat Flannery" wrote in message ... Peter Stickney wrote: WEspecially since the Saturn spread its noise over a wide path in spae and time as it climbed out, and the N-1 concentrated it's noise by releasing it all at once. Well, one N-1 _almost_ got to the end of its first stage burn before it blew up. :-) Actually, it would be interesting to figure out if the 30 N-1 first-stage motors or five Saturn V first stage motors made more noise. Since the F-1s were larger, did they generate a lower frequency sound? I'm just guessing here but how do the very large chemical explosions used to calibrate sensors before the Trinity (that is the right name - Manhatten Project first A-bomb) test weight in? What about that explosion in that Canadian port (harbour?) during WWI (I can't remember the name, something with a 'H'), that was supposed to be in the kiloton range. It erased substancial portions of the town. Halifax, Nova Scotia, Dec. 6, 1917, 9:06 AM. Two merchantmen collided in the neck of The Narrows, one, the Mont Blanc, loaded with munitions for the WW1 front. Both caught fire, and the Mont Blanc blew up. The resulting explosion is listed as being the greatest explosion, pre-Trinity. 2,766 tons of picric acid, TNT and guncotton all blew. The result was some 1,600 dead, in a city of 50,000. As impressive as the Saturn V and N-1 were can they really outweigh thousands of tons of TNT or ammonia nitrate all unwrapping itself in the same instant? Pat I'm not an expert on these matters, and I'd much rather watch and listen to a Saturn V rising into the clouds than see (or hear the cause of ) a mushroom cloud ascending into the heavens. Well, both are literally awesome. Andre -- " I'm a man... But, I can change... If I have to... I guess. " The Man Prayer, Red Green. |
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What about that explosion in that Canadian port (harbour?) during
WWI (I can't remember the name, something with a 'H') Halifax See for instance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halifax_explosion and http://www.cbc.ca/halifaxexplosion/ The Halifax catastrophe is widely considered to be among the largest manmade conventional explosions; the Mont-Blanc was laden with some 4500 tons of various vigorous explosives. There have however been others of that scale. Some sources indicate that there might have been an explosion of similar scope in Steinfield, Germany in 1917, but I can find out very little about it. Those years exposed many people, both workers and townspeople, to misadventure and malice involving energetic materials. The T.A. Gillespie Shell Loading Plant explosion (three days of cookoffs; unexploded ordnance still being unearthed now and then into the 1990s) and the Black Tom explosion, attributed to sabotage, are among the "awful, but could have been far worse" category from World War I. In 1921, there was a Halifax-scale disaster at an ammonium nitrate plant in Oppau, Germany. That one may have been caused by the use of dynamite to break up a big clotted mass of the stuff that had absorbed water from the air (amazingly, a common practice back then, according to one site). Three decades later, another thousands-of-tons ship explosion (actually a pair of them) devastated another port: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_City_disaster http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/...w/TT/lyt1.html In that same year, Brest, still rebuilding from the war, sustained significant damage when another cargo of ammonium nitrate went up (though fortunately there were "only" 21 deaths, probably thanks to five hours in which to tow the ship away from the docks). In the 1980s, the US Army did a series of experiments at White Sands Missile Range to simulate, as best they could with conventional explosives, various effects of nuclear weapons. The largest might have involved a couple thousand tons of ammonium nitrate/fuel oil mixture. These were of course planned experiments carried out a long way from anything breakable that wasn't part of the deal. Anyway, to get back at long last to the original question, I suspect that the "loudest noise" question is very complicated and has to do with duration and power spectrum and perhaps modulation and of course distance and position with respect to reflection and reinforcement and... oh, you name it. --Joe |
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The Halifax catastrophe is widely considered to be among the largest manmade conventional explosions; the Mont-Blanc was laden with some 4500 tons of various vigorous explosives. There have however been others of that scale. Last winter wasn't there a big explosion somewheres in North Korea? |
#18
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On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 09:53:48 +0200, "Frank Scrooby" wrote:
What about that explosion in that Canadian port (harbour?) during WWI (I can't remember the name, something with a 'H'), that was supposed to be in the kiloton range. It erased substancial portions of the town. ....And then there was the Texas City explosion back in '47, when a tanker full of fertilizer caught fire and blew. The force was easily in the kiloton range. OM -- "No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society - General George S. Patton, Jr |
#19
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Bill wrote:
I can attest to the fact that the Saturn V was loud. I witnessed the Apollo 15, 16 and 17 launches from Titusville. I couldn't believe it was that loud that far away. For many of those of us who have "felt" the Saturn V, it seems like a big mistake to have discarded such a great weight lifter. I believe that bird could lift 100 tons into low earth orbit while the Shuttle has never done its maximum of 20. Wish we still had the Saturn for lifting cargo. The Shuttle system actually has a very similar LEO cargo capability to the Saturn V. The Shuttle, however, uses up most of it (about 80%) with the Orbiter's mass. This might be fine if Shuttle launches were numerous, routine, and inexpensive. But they're not, so it tends to be a rather large waste quite often. |
#20
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On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 02:14:19 GMT, Robert Casey
wrote: Last winter wasn't there a big explosion somewheres in North Korea? ....Yeah. They claim it was simply them blowing a hole in a mountain for a tunnel, or something like that. I suspect that's where Al Queda or his brother, Fred Queda, hid those 300 tons of missing Iraqi explosives. OM -- "No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society - General George S. Patton, Jr |
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