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what TPS on Dream Chaser?



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 23rd 06, 11:10 PM posted to sci.space.policy
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Default what TPS on Dream Chaser?

Not really a policy question, but I hope you'll forgive the occasional
not-quite-on-topic thread...

Does anyone know what sort of TPS (thermal protection system) SpaceDev
is planning to use on its Dream Chaser orbiter? It all sounds like a
reasonable design to me so far, but reentry is probably the hardest part
for a reusable lifting body, and I'm curious what their approach to that
might be.

Thanks,
- Joe
  #2  
Old June 24th 06, 05:28 AM posted to sci.space.policy
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Default what TPS on Dream Chaser?

The NASA HL-20 was reverse engineered from the Soviet BOR-4 of which
four were launched to obit, successfully autonomously re-entered all
four times, and three were recovered at sea (one sank before they got
to it).

I believe I read a year or so ago that SpaceDev had a Space Act
Agreement with NASA Ames, and that after trajectory and re-entry
analyses, Ames recommended a specific thermal protection system, more
modern than the Shuttle's but I do not recall seeing any details.

Hope that helps.


Joe Strout wrote:
Not really a policy question, but I hope you'll forgive the occasional
not-quite-on-topic thread...

Does anyone know what sort of TPS (thermal protection system) SpaceDev
is planning to use on its Dream Chaser orbiter? It all sounds like a
reasonable design to me so far, but reentry is probably the hardest part
for a reusable lifting body, and I'm curious what their approach to that
might be.

Thanks,
- Joe


  #3  
Old June 29th 06, 07:41 PM posted to sci.space.policy
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Default what TPS on Dream Chaser?

Wasn't the HL-20 design based on the HL-10 vehicle, which preceded the
BOR-4 by some 10 years?


wrote:
The NASA HL-20 was reverse engineered from the Soviet BOR-4 of which
four were launched to obit, successfully autonomously re-entered all
four times, and three were recovered at sea (one sank before they got
to it).


  #4  
Old June 29th 06, 08:37 PM posted to sci.space.policy
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Default what TPS on Dream Chaser?


wrote in message
ups.com...
Wasn't the HL-20 design based on the HL-10 vehicle, which preceded the
BOR-4 by some 10 years?


wrote:
The NASA HL-20 was reverse engineered from the Soviet BOR-4 of which
four were launched to obit, successfully autonomously re-entered all
four times, and three were recovered at sea (one sank before they got
to it).



This is what NASA said, publicly, at the time. However, it's pretty clear
from the moldlines that the HL-20 is closer to the BOR-4 than the HL-10.

BOR-4 (actually a 1/2 scale test copy of Spiral)
http://www.buran.ru/htm/molniya4.htm

Spiral
http://www.buran.ru/htm/molniya3.htm

HL-10 (click on the three view drawing)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_HL-10

HL-20 (click on the picture)
http://grin.hq.nasa.gov/ABSTRACTS/GPN-2000-001923.html

Here's an old page with a 3-view drawing of HL-20
http://www.friends-partners.org/part...s/graume58.htm



Finally, here is the Astronautix.com HL-20 page which adds talks about the
HL-20's BOR-4 heritage.
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/hl20.htm

I think this was a case where BOR-4 flew, and NASA later analyzed the design
and refined it a bit and called it the HL-20.

After the big stink the press made about the Russians copying the US
shuttle, I don't think NASA would be quick to admit they did nearly the same
thing with HL-20.

Jeff
--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
- B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919)


  #5  
Old June 29th 06, 09:58 PM posted to sci.space.policy
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Default what TPS on Dream Chaser?


Jeff Findley wrote:
[...]
HL-20 (click on the picture)
http://grin.hq.nasa.gov/ABSTRACTS/GPN-2000-001923.html

Here's an old page with a 3-view drawing of HL-20
http://www.friends-partners.org/part...s/graume58.htm


Bigger is better:
http://www1.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Graphics/HL-20/Large/EG-0054-01.gif

/dps

  #6  
Old June 29th 06, 11:43 PM posted to sci.space.policy
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Default what TPS on Dream Chaser?

In article ,
"Jeff Findley" wrote:

Finally, here is the Astronautix.com HL-20 page which adds talks about the
HL-20's BOR-4 heritage.
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/hl20.htm


Thanks. This does shed a bit of light on the TPS question: "The Soviet
design had a 2,040 km cross-range capability and an outstandingly benign
thermal profile at peak heating conditions."

Of course, even "outstandingly benign" means "real damn hot." It looks
like the HL-20 uses tiles similar to the shuttle... in fact "The thermal
protection system would be similar to the Space Shuttle's, but the much
smaller size of the HL-20 would result in major reductions in inspection
and maintenance times."

Overall, looks like a very neat design. I'm glad SpaceDev is trying to
pick it up again and make something of it.
  #7  
Old June 30th 06, 02:52 PM posted to sci.space.policy
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Default what TPS on Dream Chaser?


"snidely" wrote in message
oups.com...

Jeff Findley wrote:
[...]
HL-20 (click on the picture)
http://grin.hq.nasa.gov/ABSTRACTS/GPN-2000-001923.html

Here's an old page with a 3-view drawing of HL-20
http://www.friends-partners.org/part...s/graume58.htm


Bigger is better:
http://www1.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Graphics/HL-20/Large/EG-0054-01.gif


No doubt. :-)

From this it's easy to see the similarities between this and BOR-4.

Jeff
--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
- B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919)



 




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