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Mars - Rio Tinto River Microbiology
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Mars - Rio Tinto River Microbiology
March 18, 2004
(R.Schenck) wrote in message : (Thomas Lee Elifritz) wrote in message : http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2002/pdf/1226.pdf perhaps it would be sensible to put the portion that you though supported your idea of a biological origin. The post was informational, make of it what you will, you have already demonstrated yourself to be a skeptical fool. Beause this paper rejects a biological origin for the 'organic appearing' features in question: "Although the fine-scalelamination found in older terrace deposits resembles microbial mat laminae, this texture appears to have originated mostly if not entirely during diagenesis." The paper is an pre-MER abstract, intended to put the subsequent spectroscopic discoveries into context. The context here, of course, is diagenesis as possible fossilization. http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/200...JE001918.shtml agian, you really need to point out what in particular you find helpful here. I don't have to do anything. You have yet to make any claims or posit any hypothesis, just expouse a particularly boring version of skeptical crackpottery. You have been positing that the spherules are formed by bacteria building spores around themselves. As one of many working hypothses. Another more plausible hypothesis is simple microbiological concretion. the closest that this paper comes to in supporting any arguement for life on mars, and has nothing special to say about your particualar theory is: " A chemolithotrophic community that biooxidizes the Iberian Pyritic Belt, acidifying water (pH between 0.9 and 3.0) and favoring high concentrations of ferric iron in solution (up to 20 g·L-1), maintains this iron-driven system. In spite of these extreme conditions, high microbial diversity was found. Its acidic bacteria, archaea, and eukarya constitute a complex community supported by algal biomass in highly stable hydrochemical conditions, which are achieved through iron buffering. The pH is maintained at constant low levels even at very high water dilution. In these conditions, iron minerals as oxyhydroxides, hydroxides, and sulfates are formed." Than-you so much for throwing up on the usenet. sulfates i beleiev have been found, but I don't think that any of this is wildly helpful. Again, since you have offered no evidence, and I have, I claim you are nothing but a skeptical scientific fraud. If anything, it suggests that a wide diversity of organisms are required for this ph buffering process. It says nothing about organisms forming iron spores. And if you read that next full paper, you will see that premise is not supported by the evidence. http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/full/69/8/4853 again, you need to point out where in this paper there is supporting eveidence. I saw nothing about concretions or spherules in there. I notice Rio Tinto is in Spain, of Earth. The paper has a lot about the genetic/relationships of the varied microorganisms that are in the system. the only really relevant portion is "The Tinto River (Huelva, southwestern Spain) is an extreme environment with a rather constant acidic pH along the entire river and a high concentration of heavy metals. The extreme conditions of the Tinto ecosystem are generated by the metabolic activity of chemolithotrophic microorganisms thriving in the rich complex sulfides of the Iberian Pyrite Belt. Molecular ecology techniques were used to analyze the diversity of this microbial community. " Again, thank-you so much for regurtitating on the usenet. It's so helpful. So what evidence do you have for similar control of ph in the region under consideration? Where any heamatite spherules found in the Tinto River? What do they look like and what is their origin? How would those hypothetical sphereules in teh tinto river relate to the spherules on mars? Clearly the implied depositional ph on Mars is rather low, whereas if you had done your homework, you will see that most hematite formation scenarios work with alkaline depositional environments. IOW, what evidence do you havethat the spherules on mars are the result of biological processes? Again, I have systematically been supplying evidence and offering plausible origin and evolution scenarios for the last several weeks, systematically knocking crackpot theories down one by one, with evidence. You on the other hand, suddenly appear, offering skepticism, without formulating any plausible counter hypotheses, conveniently when the only plausible counter hypothesis is pure inorganic sedimentation, and without offering any evidence whatsoever. I have no reason to take any of your claims seriously as you have no demonstrated scientific credibility whatsoever. However, I can test that, with evidence : http://www.google.com/groups?safe=im...=d&lr=&hl=e n That's pretty laughable from a scientific point of view. The hypothesis that you are a crackpot is confirmed. Thomas Lee Elifritz http://elifritz.members.atlantic.net |
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Mars - Rio Tinto River Microbiology
(Thomas Lee Elifritz) wrote in message . com...
March 18, 2004 (R.Schenck) wrote in message : (Thomas Lee Elifritz) wrote in message : http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2002/pdf/1226.pdf perhaps it would be sensible to put the portion that you though supported your idea of a biological origin. The post was informational, make of it what you will, you have already demonstrated yourself to be a skeptical fool. Better a skeptical fool than a credulous fool. A skeptical fool will at least be able to operate in a scientific manner. Beause this paper rejects a biological origin for the 'organic appearing' features in question: "Although the fine-scalelamination found in older terrace deposits resembles microbial mat laminae, this texture appears to have originated mostly if not entirely during diagenesis." The paper is an pre-MER abstract, intended to put the subsequent spectroscopic discoveries into context. The context here, of course, is diagenesis as possible fossilization. ok, i didn't know that you don't know what you are talking about. Sorry, my mistake. Diagenisis is unrelated to fossilization. The only structures in the spherules are the result of diagenesis, not the fossilized structure of an organism. http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/200...JE001918.shtml agian, you really need to point out what in particular you find helpful here. I don't have to do anything. You have yet to make any claims or posit any hypothesis, just expouse a particularly boring version of skeptical crackpottery. You maintain that there is something in these papers that supports you ideas. There isn't anything. You have been positing that the spherules are formed by bacteria building spores around themselves. As one of many working hypothses. Another more plausible hypothesis is simple microbiological concretion. Which again none of these papers support. the closest that this paper comes to in supporting any arguement for life on mars, and has nothing special to say about your particualar theory is: " A chemolithotrophic community that biooxidizes the Iberian Pyritic Belt, acidifying water (pH between 0.9 and 3.0) and favoring high concentrations of ferric iron in solution (up to 20 g·L-1), maintains this iron-driven system. In spite of these extreme conditions, high microbial diversity was found. Its acidic bacteria, archaea, and eukarya constitute a complex community supported by algal biomass in highly stable hydrochemical conditions, which are achieved through iron buffering. The pH is maintained at constant low levels even at very high water dilution. In these conditions, iron minerals as oxyhydroxides, hydroxides, and sulfates are formed." Than-you so much for throwing up on the usenet. You are the one who posted the links to these papers and you are the one who says they somehow support your position sulfates i beleiev have been found, but I don't think that any of this is wildly helpful. Again, since you have offered no evidence, and I have, I claim you are nothing but a skeptical scientific fraud. You sir are the fraud. You don't even understand what these papers are about let alone what they import and what they support. Your ideas have not been rejected out of hand, you presented these papers as supportive of your 'theories' and I approached them in the only manner possible. I read them. Perhaps you shoudl try reading them. You are the fraud, there is nothing in these papers that supports your ideas and most of them contradict them. Why don't you try reading them. If anything, it suggests that a wide diversity of organisms are required for this ph buffering process. It says nothing about organisms forming iron spores. And if you read that next full paper, you will see that premise is not supported by the evidence. Your unsupoprted assertions are meaningless. What about the evidence doesn't support the premise of the paper? why did you present the paper if it wrong? why didn't you just present the paper that shows that paper to be wrong? Could it be becase there is no such paper? Could it be that you just googled up for a few key terms and assumed that any paper containing those terms would support your ideas? Yes, it appears that is that case. Because these papers -contradict- your hypothesis, and you presented them as -supporting- your hypothesis. http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/full/69/8/4853 again, you need to point out where in this paper there is supporting eveidence. I saw nothing about concretions or spherules in there. I notice Rio Tinto is in Spain, of Earth. then why did you post it if its entirely irrelevant. The paper has a lot about the genetic/relationships of the varied microorganisms that are in the system. the only really relevant portion is "The Tinto River (Huelva, southwestern Spain) is an extreme environment with a rather constant acidic pH along the entire river and a high concentration of heavy metals. The extreme conditions of the Tinto ecosystem are generated by the metabolic activity of chemolithotrophic microorganisms thriving in the rich complex sulfides of the Iberian Pyrite Belt. Molecular ecology techniques were used to analyze the diversity of this microbial community. " Again, thank-you so much for regurtitating on the usenet. It's so helpful. Fraud. Are you surprised at whats in the paper? you should be since you apparently didn't read or didn't understand it. So what evidence do you have for similar control of ph in the region under consideration? Where any heamatite spherules found in the Tinto River? What do they look like and what is their origin? How would those hypothetical sphereules in teh tinto river relate to the spherules on mars? Clearly the implied depositional ph on Mars is rather low, whereas if you had done your homework, you will see that most hematite formation scenarios work with alkaline depositional environments. Theph was high in the region in question -because of- the organisms. If the haematite is being formed from organisms, then the ph should be hi. You are saying that the ph of the martian site is acidic. So that would seem to contradict the idea that the haematite is formed by organisms. Are you saying that haematite is -only- formed in alkaline environs? IOW, what evidence do you havethat the spherules on mars are the result of biological processes? Again, I have systematically been supplying evidence and offering plausible origin and evolution scenarios for the last several weeks, systematically knocking crackpot theories down one by one, with evidence. You on the other hand, suddenly appear, offering skepticism, without formulating any plausible counter hypotheses, i do not need to offer a plausible counter hypothesis. I was simply questioning you hypothesis and why you thought the papers supported it. Is you hypothesis so weak that it can't withstand -any- scrutiny?? conveniently when the only plausible counter hypothesis is pure inorganic sedimentation, and without offering any evidence whatsoever. I have no reason to take any of your claims seriously as you have no demonstrated scientific credibility whatsoever. However, I can test that, with evidence : http://www.google.com/groups?safe=im...=d&lr=&hl=e n That's pretty laughable from a scientific point of view. The hypothesis that you are a crackpot is confirmed. wow, thats pretty impressive. in a post about your inability to present information that supports your assertions, you do just that. So, basically, you couldn't answer any of my questions about your hypothesis and the papers you thought supported it. The only exception to this is where you said that haematite forms in alkaline environs, and the martian site had an acidic deposition envrionment. Of course, you also maintain that the spherules are formed by microorganisms, and the papers talked about microorganisms being the factor responsible for the environ -having- an alkaline environ. Wow, I am spectacularly underwhelmed by your argumentative and rhetorical style, along with your inability to understand basic science, and the amazing statement that 'skepticism is bad'. I wish that we could about the evidence involved, but you don't seem to have any. |
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Mars - Rio Tinto River Microbiology
March 19, 2004
(R.Schenck) wrote in message : ok, i didn't know that you don't know what you are talking about. Sorry, my mistake. Diagenisis is unrelated to fossilization. The only structures in the spherules are the result of diagenesis, not the fossilized structure of an organism. http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache...hl=en&ie=UTF-8 You are an confirmed idiot. Everything else you say is suspect. [snip nonsense] I notice Rio Tinto is in Spain, of Earth. then why did you post it if its entirely irrelevant. Did I say that? You are also an absolutist. The papers were posted for you to read, no claims of their relevance was made pro or con, reading them would have made that self evident. I have no reason to take any of your claims seriously as you have no demonstrated scientific credibility whatsoever. However, I can test that, with evidence : http://www.google.com/groups?safe=im...=d&lr=&hl=e n That's pretty laughable from a scientific point of view. The hypothesis that you are a crackpot is confirmed. wow, thats pretty impressive. in a post about your inability to present information that supports your assertions, you do just that. No, I search your usenet posting history and notice that you have endlessly trolled talk.origins for the last few years. Welcome to my filter file. So, basically, you couldn't answer any of my questions about your hypothesis and the papers you thought supported it. It wasn't my hypothesis. The only exception to this is where you said that haematite forms in alkaline environs, and the martian site had an acidic deposition envrionment. You are also a liar. Of course, you also maintain that the spherules are formed by microorganisms, and the papers talked about microorganisms being the factor responsible for the environ -having- an alkaline environ. Again you lie to make some kind of pathetic point. Wow, I am spectacularly underwhelmed by your argumentative and rhetorical style, along with your inability to understand basic science, and the amazing statement that 'skepticism is bad'. I wish that we could about the evidence involved, but you don't seem to have any. None that you could grok with your simpleton mind. You are good at debating crackpots, though. Thomas Lee Elifritz http://elifritz.members.atlantic.net |
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Mars - Rio Tinto River Microbiology
"Thomas Lee Elifritz" wrote in message om... March 19, 2004 (R.Schenck) wrote in message : Wow, I am spectacularly underwhelmed by your argumentative and rhetorical style, along with your inability to understand basic science, and the amazing statement that 'skepticism is bad'. I wish that we could about the evidence involved, but you don't seem to have any. You are good at debating crackpots, though. Yes, but why he would continue to debate with you remains a mystery. |
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Mars - Rio Tinto River Microbiology
"Chosp" wrote in message news:BvQ6c.117060$h23.46809@fed1read06...
"Thomas Lee Elifritz" wrote in message om... March 19, 2004 (R.Schenck) wrote in message : Wow, I am spectacularly underwhelmed by your argumentative and rhetorical style, along with your inability to understand basic science, and the amazing statement that 'skepticism is bad'. I wish that we could about the evidence involved, but you don't seem to have any. You are good at debating crackpots, though. Yes, but why he would continue to debate with you remains a mystery. I actually had no idea that this guy was such a loon. I thought his idea was intersting and reasonable, and i figured I would look at what he presented as supporting it. But the papers he presented didn't do that at all. It looked like all he did was do a google search on key words, and then just select some of those webpages and papers. All i was doing was trying to figure out if I had not understood something in the papers or something along those lines. It certainly -would- be exciting if these spherules were infact formed as a result of biological properties, and I wanted to see if there was any evidence supporting that idea. But apparently there is not, or at least, if there was, this Elifritz guy wouldn't even be able to recognize it. And its continued, at least until he filtered me out of his newsreader, because I couldn't beleive that some one could claim to be acting in a scientific manner and be so disparaging of even -mild- skepticism. Ah well, go figure. |
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Mars - Rio Tinto River Microbiology
warrant out for (jeff) AKA Alan P )
The Day & Night Stalker Is Now (jeff) mail theft, day and night Stalker , car washer, milk man, paper boy, Grand Theft Auto , harassment phones calls, cyberstalking, epar, bank robber been in & out of folsom AND LIKES KIDS IF YOU GET WHAT I MEAN. what did (jeff) AKA "Alan p" do for a living cleans portable, pizza boy driver and he works at the dump. but now he is on the run agin from the fbi,local pd an sheriff and amw.com john walsh. he went to diablo high but something went wrong and enter the life of crime. "Jeff Bond" wrote in message Let's meet there so you can show me what a dangerous guy you are. I'll even buy you a burger and fries. Name the time and I'll be there. 1. I don't eat burger and fries so i don't where you got that info. along with all the other **** you little chicken. 2. Let's meet you chicken 3pm 3-10-04 at lat 37.8400869 long -122.10405 you little chicken bok bok if you can get away form doing the pizza doll "Jeff Bond" IS A 100% NO SHOW HOT AIR CHICKEN ****. I WAS AT lat 37.8400869 long -122.10405 AT 3PM where where you LITTLE CHICKEN **** JEFF BOND BUT NO LITTLE CHICKEN **** JEFF , LITTLE CHICKEN **** JEFF BUT NO LITTLE CHICKEN **** JEFF , LITTLE CHICKEN **** JEFF BUT NO LITTLE CHICKEN **** JEFF , LITTLE CHICKEN **** JEFF BUT NO LITTLE CHICKEN **** JEFF , LITTLE CHICKEN **** JEFF "Jeff Bond" wrote in message ... Okay, I confess. I stole your mail, stalked you day and night, stole a car and left it in your driveway, made harassing phone calls to you (while my wife screamed at me), and yes, I even cyberstalked you. Oh, and that old grey and red Honda? Yeah, that's mine too (in addition to the White Bronco like OJ's). But I'll have you know I am *not* 5'8" and 160 pounds. Get your facts straight! im a 3' stalker troll that plays w/his 2" all day. o we all have your facts straight sbc, police, sheriff with video with sound, pics , phone tapes by me & sbc. so why don't you call det.at and at and at and sbc. they will be more then happy to take you back to the funny farm and lock you up in the big white room. LITTLE CHICKEN **** JEFF Elvis, Thank You, thank you very much Day & Night Stalker Is Now (jeff) mail theft, day and night Stalker , Grand Theft Auto , harassment phones calls, cyberstalking what did (jeff) AKA "Alan p" do for a living cleans portable, pizza boy driver and he works at the dump. but now he is on the run from the fbi,local pd an sheriff. he went to diablo high but something went wrong and enter the life of crime. vansole what a sick puppy. Gordy wrote in message what a sick puppy. even fbi,local pd and sheriff said what a sick puppy. In a message dated 3/3/2004 11:50:24 AM Pacific Standard Time, county.org writes: Mr. Smith, Pursuant to our phone conversation on 3/3/04 I have enclosed my contact information. I thank you for your time and would appreciate any information you may find about "Jeff Bond" and his true identity. I would also ask that YOU NOT TALK to ANYONE ABOUT "Jeff Bond" before we are able to track him down. Should he learn that we are seeking him, he may may be able to flee to mexico to avoid us. I would appreciate, however, if you would let me know if you find anything of interest on your video camera or trap any phone numbers on caller ID or phone bill from him that might indicate where he is located. If you know when he has called you, a call to your phone company should facilitate a review of your bill prior to arrival in the mail and they should be able to give you the phone number of who called you. Detective Van @county.org Violent Crimes Investigation Unit Sheriff's Department |
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Mars - Rio Tinto River Microbiology
warrant out for (jeff) AKA Alan P )
The Day & Night Stalker Is Now (jeff) mail theft, day and night Stalker , car washer, milk man, paper boy, Grand Theft Auto , harassment phones calls, cyberstalking, epar, bank robber been in & out of folsom AND LIKES KIDS IF YOU GET WHAT I MEAN. what did (jeff) AKA "Alan p" do for a living cleans portable, pizza boy driver and he works at the dump. but now he is on the run agin from the fbi,local pd an sheriff and amw.com john walsh. he went to diablo high but something went wrong and enter the life of crime. "Jeff Bond" wrote in message Let's meet there so you can show me what a dangerous guy you are. I'll even buy you a burger and fries. Name the time and I'll be there. 1. I don't eat burger and fries so i don't where you got that info. along with all the other **** you little chicken. 2. Let's meet you chicken 3pm 3-10-04 at lat 37.8400869 long -122.10405 you little chicken bok bok if you can get away form doing the pizza doll "Jeff Bond" IS A 100% NO SHOW HOT AIR CHICKEN ****. I WAS AT lat 37.8400869 long -122.10405 AT 3PM where where you LITTLE CHICKEN **** JEFF BOND BUT NO LITTLE CHICKEN **** JEFF , LITTLE CHICKEN **** JEFF BUT NO LITTLE CHICKEN **** JEFF , LITTLE CHICKEN **** JEFF BUT NO LITTLE CHICKEN **** JEFF , LITTLE CHICKEN **** JEFF BUT NO LITTLE CHICKEN **** JEFF , LITTLE CHICKEN **** JEFF "Jeff Bond" wrote in message ... Okay, I confess. I stole your mail, stalked you day and night, stole a car and left it in your driveway, made harassing phone calls to you (while my wife screamed at me), and yes, I even cyberstalked you. Oh, and that old grey and red Honda? Yeah, that's mine too (in addition to the White Bronco like OJ's). But I'll have you know I am *not* 5'8" and 160 pounds. Get your facts straight! im a 3' stalker troll that plays w/his 2" all day. o we all have your facts straight sbc, police, sheriff with video with sound, pics , phone tapes by me & sbc. so why don't you call det.at and at and at and sbc. they will be more then happy to take you back to the funny farm and lock you up in the big white room. LITTLE CHICKEN **** JEFF Elvis, Thank You, thank you very much Day & Night Stalker Is Now (jeff) mail theft, day and night Stalker , Grand Theft Auto , harassment phones calls, cyberstalking what did (jeff) AKA "Alan p" do for a living cleans portable, pizza boy driver and he works at the dump. but now he is on the run from the fbi,local pd an sheriff. he went to diablo high but something went wrong and enter the life of crime. vansole what a sick puppy. Gordy wrote in message what a sick puppy. even fbi,local pd and sheriff said what a sick puppy. In a message dated 3/3/2004 11:50:24 AM Pacific Standard Time, county.org writes: Mr. Smith, Pursuant to our phone conversation on 3/3/04 I have enclosed my contact information. I thank you for your time and would appreciate any information you may find about "Jeff Bond" and his true identity. I would also ask that YOU NOT TALK to ANYONE ABOUT "Jeff Bond" before we are able to track him down. Should he learn that we are seeking him, he may may be able to flee to mexico to avoid us. I would appreciate, however, if you would let me know if you find anything of interest on your video camera or trap any phone numbers on caller ID or phone bill from him that might indicate where he is located. If you know when he has called you, a call to your phone company should facilitate a review of your bill prior to arrival in the mail and they should be able to give you the phone number of who called you. Detective Van @county.org Violent Crimes Investigation Unit Sheriff's Department |
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