A Water World? (Warning: This Post Contains 'Science')

On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:57:12 -0700, "revlove" wrote
in alt.fan.art-bell:


"Donald L Ferrt" wrote in message
. com...
"revlove" wrote in message
news:ITo2c.9807$BA.8574@fed1read03...
"Donald L Ferrt" wrote in message
om...
"revlove" wrote in message
news:9Ie2c.6388$BA.4168@fed1read03...
"Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)" wrote in
message
...
On 4 Mar 2004 21:02:45 -0800, (Donald L
Ferrt) wrote in alt.fan.art-bell:

Okay, maybe not.





http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/featu...stanceid=10730

SUPER-ROBOTS WILL WIPE OUT MANKIND!

I've been wondering where you get all your 'information'. This
explains so, so much.
--
V.G.

Now, Mr. VeeGee, I suppose that you are suggesting that The World
Weakly
News is NOT a credible source? That, Sir, is some serious slander
man.
The
News consistently is of the highest journalistic caliber. Indeed,
in
the
very article mentioned, one may read, en passant, about IBM's Deep
Blue's
wins over 1997 World Chess Champion Boris Kasparov.

I rest my case.

Rev. Dr. Hugh Morles, E.D.B.

E.D.B. = Evidence of a Dumb *******!

That's highly creative, Donald. Perhaps you'd like to edit the
remainder of
my good 'ol .sig now that you've wrapped up your highly insightful
planetary
science postings? He http://www.6URL.com/PY .


The Right Reverend Dr. Hugh Morles, Earned Doctorate Bully

Just had to come down to your level!

Farrt (you are called that, are you not? I'd sure hate to get that
wrong.) -- please be careful when ****ing with the higher rungs of the
ladder. It can be dangerous, they say. You'd best stick to the ones beneath
you.

Unfortunately, there aren't any.

Rev. Dr. Hugh Morles, E.D.B.


Whenever Donnie-Boi tries to rise above his station, he keeps banging
his head on the manhole cover, which explains his extensive brain
damage.
--
V.G.

Change pobox dot alaska to gci.
"People are more violently opposed to fur than leather, because it is easier to harrass
rich women than it is motorcycle gangs." - Bumper Sticker
(This sig file contains not less than 80% recycled SPAM)

Sarcasm is my sword, Apathy is my shield.

"Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)" wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 00:02:19 -0700, "revlove" wrote
in alt.fan.art-bell:


"Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)" wrote in message
.. .
On 4 Mar 2004 21:02:45 -0800, (Donald L
Ferrt) wrote in alt.fan.art-bell:

Okay, maybe not.



http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/featu...stanceid=10730

SUPER-ROBOTS WILL WIPE OUT MANKIND!

I've been wondering where you get all your 'information'. This
explains so, so much.
--
V.G.

Now, Mr. VeeGee, I suppose that you are suggesting that The World Weakly
News is NOT a credible source? That, Sir, is some serious slander man. The
News consistently is of the highest journalistic caliber. Indeed, in the
very article mentioned, one may read, en passant, about IBM's Deep Blue's
wins over 1997 World Chess Champion Boris Kasparov.

I rest my case.

Rev. Dr. Hugh Morles, E.D.B.



I must confess, the covers of the WWN and its ilk amuse me while I'm
in the supermarket checkout lines.
--
V.G.


So. this has what to do with How Mars and Venus lost their oceans???

On 6 Mar 2004 07:46:03 -0800, (Donald L
Ferrt) wrote:

"revlove" wrote in message news:9Ie2c.6388$BA.4168@fed1read03...
"Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)" wrote in message
...
On 4 Mar 2004 21:02:45 -0800, (Donald L
Ferrt) wrote in alt.fan.art-bell:

Okay, maybe not.



http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/featu...stanceid=10730

SUPER-ROBOTS WILL WIPE OUT MANKIND!

I've been wondering where you get all your 'information'. This
explains so, so much.
--
V.G.

Now, Mr. VeeGee, I suppose that you are suggesting that The World Weakly
News is NOT a credible source? That, Sir, is some serious slander man. The
News consistently is of the highest journalistic caliber. Indeed, in the
very article mentioned, one may read, en passant, about IBM's Deep Blue's
wins over 1997 World Chess Champion Boris Kasparov.

I rest my case.

Rev. Dr. Hugh Morles, E.D.B.

E.D.B. = Evidence of a Dumb *******!

And the Dumb ******* is YOU.

Of course, evidence of that is all over the place.




--
Dr.Postman USPS, MBMC, BsD; "Disgruntled, But Unarmed"
Member,Board of Directors of afa-b, SKEP-TI-CULT® member #15-51506-253.
You can email me at: TuriFake(at)hotmail.com

"Carl, you can lead a kook to wisdom, but you can't make him learn"
- Irony Alert

"Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:29:23 -0700, "revlove" wrote
in alt.fan.art-bell:


"Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)" wrote in
message
.. .
On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 11:54:49 -0700, "revlove" wrote
in alt.fan.art-bell:


"Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)" wrote in
message
.. .
On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 00:02:19 -0700, "revlove"
wrote
in alt.fan.art-bell:


"Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)" wrote in
message
.. .
On 4 Mar 2004 21:02:45 -0800, (Donald L
Ferrt) wrote in alt.fan.art-bell:

Okay, maybe not.






http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/featu...instanceid=107
3
0

SUPER-ROBOTS WILL WIPE OUT MANKIND!

I've been wondering where you get all your 'information'. This
explains so, so much.
--
V.G.

Now, Mr. VeeGee, I suppose that you are suggesting that The World
Weakly
News is NOT a credible source? That, Sir, is some serious slander
man.
The
News consistently is of the highest journalistic caliber. Indeed,
in
the
very article mentioned, one may read, en passant, about IBM's Deep
Blue's
wins over 1997 World Chess Champion Boris Kasparov.

I rest my case.

Rev. Dr. Hugh Morles, E.D.B.



I must confess, the covers of the WWN and its ilk amuse me while I'm
in the supermarket checkout lines.
--
V.G.

What really amused me about this article was the fact that they got
Gary
Kasparov's first name wrong.

~rev


"Boris" is Ukrainian for "Gary". Or something. HTH.
--
V.G.

As in...what? Garri Yeltsin?

You sure about this, VG?

I was being generous. That's the kind of person I am.
--
V.G.

Yeah. I know. You just give and give and give. Straight from the heart and
wallet. And doo you think for one minute that you are appreciated?

Foo.

--
~rev

"Stop RFID."

http://www.spychips.com/jointrfid_position_paper.htm

"Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)" wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:29:23 -0700, "revlove" wrote
in alt.fan.art-bell:


"Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 11:54:49 -0700, "revlove" wrote
in alt.fan.art-bell:


"Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)" wrote in
message
.. .
On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 00:02:19 -0700, "revlove" wrote
in alt.fan.art-bell:


"Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)" wrote in
message
.. .
On 4 Mar 2004 21:02:45 -0800, (Donald L
Ferrt) wrote in alt.fan.art-bell:

Okay, maybe not.





http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/featu...nstanceid=1073
0

SUPER-ROBOTS WILL WIPE OUT MANKIND!

I've been wondering where you get all your 'information'. This
explains so, so much.
--
V.G.

Now, Mr. VeeGee, I suppose that you are suggesting that The World
Weakly
News is NOT a credible source? That, Sir, is some serious slander
man.
The
News consistently is of the highest journalistic caliber. Indeed, in
the
very article mentioned, one may read, en passant, about IBM's Deep
Blue's
wins over 1997 World Chess Champion Boris Kasparov.

I rest my case.

Rev. Dr. Hugh Morles, E.D.B.



I must confess, the covers of the WWN and its ilk amuse me while I'm
in the supermarket checkout lines.
--
V.G.

What really amused me about this article was the fact that they got Gary
Kasparov's first name wrong.

~rev


"Boris" is Ukrainian for "Gary". Or something. HTH.
--
V.G.

As in...what? Garri Yeltsin?

You sure about this, VG?

I was being generous. That's the kind of person I am.
--
V.G.


But the real scientists Ask = Where is the Need?

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/nation/8128710.htm

http://www.oaklandtribune.com/Storie...002380,00.html


Article Last Updated: Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 5:41:32 AM PST



Mars critics see red over billions to explore it
By Joseph B. Verrengia, Associated Press

NASA's celebration last week of gritty evidence that Mars once had
enough water to support life has spawned more questions:

Where's the water now? When did it disappear? Are there any fossils of
living creatures, or even microbes?

But prominent scientists outside the space agency are beginning to ask
a harder question: Does Mars represent what is out of whack in U.S.
science and exploration?

"So what if there is water up there?" said George Washington
University sociologist Amitai Etzioni, who served as a domestic
affairs adviser in the Carter White House.

"What difference does it make to anyone's life?" he said. "Will it
grow any more food? Cure a disease? This doesn't even broaden our
horizons."

Even some physical scientists who understand the incremental nature of
research are less than enthralled.



"It's all very exciting," deadpanned marine biologist Sylvia Earle,
who holds the world's record for untethered undersea exploration --
the oceans' equivalent of spacewalking. "It confirms what many of us
had suspected for a long time."

Mars enthusiasts say the discovery of water evidence in the rocks by
the National Aeronautics and Space Administration's two roving robots
is important precisely because it confirms what researchers had been
discussing for years. Science is strewn with plausible ideas that
experimentation has disproved.

"In this case, there was no substitute for finding out directly," said
Case Western Reserve University physicist Lawrence Krauss. "This shows
that Earth is not a closed system, that there was water elsewhere.

"It is a precursor to potentially something far more exciting. If we
discover a fossil? Boy, that will rank up there with the all-time
greats."

Today's $820 million mission using the robotic rovers Opportunity and
Spirit may be just the beginning of Mars spending, and that has
scientists in all fields a little worried.

The Bush White House wants to return to the moon and eventually send
astronauts to Mars, perhaps by 2035 -- an effort that would cost
hundreds of billions of dollars.

Considering the projected $477 billion federal budget deficit and the
competition for scarce taxpayer dollars, many scientists say it makes
more sense to concentrate on pressing scientific issues that would
improve life down here.

Both Etzioni and Earle, in separate interviews, suggested the world's
oceans are the most obvious, and promising, scientific target.

Earth's oceans barely have been explored. New potential marine sources
of energy and medicine, and knowledge about climate and origins of
life on Earth 4 billion years ago remain largely unexamined.

Ocean research is divided among several agencies and laboratories. Its
primary agency, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
receives about $3.2billion annually, as compared with NASA's
$15.5billion. In his 2005 budget, the president wants to cut 8.4
percent from NOAA's budget and boost NASA's by 5.6 percent.

The annual budget of the National Institutes of Health -- the
government's premier biomedical research arm -- has been doubled over
the past several years to about $27 billion. But that money is spread
among 27 divisions, from cancer to Alzheimer's to drug addiction.

To some degree, Mars has divided space scientists, too. Astronomers
bemoan NASA's decision to stop servicing the Hubble Space Telescope
and let it die years ahead of schedule as the agency refocuses from
stars to planets.

And Earle, the ocean explorer-in-residence at the National Geographic
Society says, "I don't want to cut a penny from space."

"But the resources going into the investigation of our own planet and
its oceans are trivial compared to investment looking for water
elsewhere in the universe."

For decades the question of whether our nearest and most similar
neighbor once supported life has been the subject of intense interest.

That Mars is so unforgiving -- more than half of the 36 previous
missions have ended in disaster, including a European one last
December -- serves only to make it a more tantalizing target.

Space enthusiasts don't claim the current twin rover mission to be a
historic turning point on par with the conquistadors' arrival in the
New World, or Darwin's voyage to collect specimens for his theories of
evolution.

Nor does it compare to Neil Armstrong's giant leap for mankind on the
surface of the moon.

Today, scientific exploration is performed incrementally because of
the enormous distances and technological complexities involved.

That's one reason NASA attaches importance to what Opportunity found
in an outcropping nicknamed "El Capitan" at the landing site in Mars'
Meridiani Planum region.

Previously, the assumption that Mars was wet was based on
circumstantial evidence, such as satellite imagery of what appeared to
be canyons and surface channels carved by water now missing.

The rovers landed in January specifically to check its rocks for
evidence that they were formed in a persistently wet environment.

Mission accomplished, said James Garvin, NASA's lead scientist for
Mars and lunar exploration.

In a finely layered rock, Opportunity detected concentrations of
jarosite, an iron sulfate mineral that forms with water, as well as
layers of salts that match evaporation sequences found on Earth when
briny water pools dry up.

Visual examination also showed several features of rocks formed in
watery environments, including signs of dissolved salt crystals,
BB-sized spheres of minerals and crossbed patterns of rock layers.

"This really is the smoking gun of a watery past for Mars," said David
Grinspoon, principal scientist at the Southwest Research Institute in
Boulder, Colo., and author of "Lonely Planets." "We're not just
chasing ghosts."

Not that future exploration necessarily will be accomplished by
humans. Some NASA critics, like Colorado astrophysicist Robert Zubrin,
strenuously argue that humans should go to Mars soon -- traveling
light and making their fuel from rocks on the Martian surface for the
trip home.

But the current thinking is that robots and computers can do a
cheaper, safer job in a hostile environment. The very thin Martian
atmosphere contains almost no oxygen and it exerts only a trace of the
pressure that helps make Earth habitable.

"We're in a new phase and one we had better get used to, Krauss said.
"The more adventurous we get, the more we have to count on robots."

The value of robotic exploration is one area in which Mars supporters
and critics like Etzioni and Earle can agree -- up to a point.

After all, submersibles have been trolling the oceans for decades.
Earle argues that remote marine studies have found that life -- our
lives, really -- is not guaranteed as the oceans decline.

Most of the seas' big fish -- tuna, sharks and swordfish -- have been
depleted. Half of the coral reefs are dead or dying. Around the world,
runoff pollution has created more than 50 "dead zones" in coastal
waters.

Sea levels are rising, and the oceans' role in the planet's changing
climate is poorly known.

Real oceans need scientific attention more than the dried-up remnants
on Mars, Earle contends.

"Every time I jump into the ocean I see things I've never seen
before," she said. "We have better maps of Mars than our own ocean
floor. That's just not right."





Sarcasm is my sword, Apathy is my shield.

BoBoism is your creed!

http://www.yesmagazine.com/Reviews/brooks.htm

Is it not amazing how David Brooks' BoBos in Paradise actually turn
out to be Conservo Zeros???????!!!!!!?????

On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 07:57:38 -0700, "revlove" wrote
in alt.fan.art-bell:

"Boris" is Ukrainian for "Gary". Or something. HTH.
--
V.G.

As in...what? Garri Yeltsin?

You sure about this, VG?

I was being generous. That's the kind of person I am.
--
V.G.

Yeah. I know. You just give and give and give. Straight from the heart and
wallet. And doo you think for one minute that you are appreciated?

Foo.

No.
--
V.G.

Change pobox dot alaska to gci.
"People are more violently opposed to fur than leather, because it is easier to harrass
rich women than it is motorcycle gangs." - Bumper Sticker
(This sig file contains not less than 80% recycled SPAM)

Sarcasm is my sword, Apathy is my shield.

"Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 07:57:38 -0700, "revlove" wrote
in alt.fan.art-bell:

"Boris" is Ukrainian for "Gary". Or something. HTH.
--
V.G.

As in...what? Garri Yeltsin?

You sure about this, VG?

I was being generous. That's the kind of person I am.
--
V.G.

Yeah. I know. You just give and give and give. Straight from the heart
and
wallet. And doo you think for one minute that you are appreciated?

Foo.

No.


You should start billing people for your services.

--

The Usenet Irony Alert
Serving alt.fan.art-bell since 2003

Imbedded Reporter for "The Kazoo Report"
as seen on http://makeashorterlink.com/?L21C23F87
4077th Stealth Truck Squadron

Felony case "02-CR-0617 9/1/03: Oregon Department of
Justice V. Raymond Ronald Karczewski, Defendant.
"The defendant's name is NOT copyrighted."

On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 16:37:24 GMT, "Irony Alert"
wrote in alt.fan.art-bell:

"Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 07:57:38 -0700, "revlove" wrote
in alt.fan.art-bell:

"Boris" is Ukrainian for "Gary". Or something. HTH.
--
V.G.

As in...what? Garri Yeltsin?

You sure about this, VG?

I was being generous. That's the kind of person I am.
--
V.G.

Yeah. I know. You just give and give and give. Straight from the heart
and
wallet. And doo you think for one minute that you are appreciated?

Foo.

No.


You should start billing people for your services.

Probably, but then it wouldn't be 'giving', per se.
--
V.G.

Change pobox dot alaska to gci.
"People are more violently opposed to fur than leather, because it is easier to harrass
rich women than it is motorcycle gangs." - Bumper Sticker
(This sig file contains not less than 80% recycled SPAM)

Sarcasm is my sword, Apathy is my shield.

"Robert J. Kolker" wrote:

"Moderate Mammal" wrote in message
...
Anyway, an interesting article from today the 29th discussing the
possible phenomena of significant amounts of water on Mars. Can't
comment too much as I'm more or less in the Bio camp. OTOH, if there
*is* usable water on the Red Planet then indeed the concept of us going
to Mars is raised to a most poignant level. For me anyway. IIRC, one of
the most difficult obstacles in sending a mission to Mars was the
transportation of needed water.

In a way it is irrelevent. With our current blast off and coast technology
in which most of the trip is in free fall by the time the astronauts get to
Mars their bones are in dreadful shape and they are thoroughly irradiated by
solar flares. In short, a trip to Mars, with our current technology, is a
suicide mission and it really does not make any difference if there is water
waiting for the travelers or not.

Bob Kolker

Micro-g is not a long term problem. The Russians have had a man in
orbit for up to 14 months, and he managed to walk away from the Soyuz
after landing.

There is a lot of data out there, obviously you are not familiar with
it.

"\The Commentator//" wrote in message
...
"Robert J. Kolker" wrote:

"Moderate Mammal" wrote in message
...
Anyway, an interesting article from today the 29th discussing the
possible phenomena of significant amounts of water on Mars. Can't
comment too much as I'm more or less in the Bio camp. OTOH, if there
*is* usable water on the Red Planet then indeed the concept of us
going
to Mars is raised to a most poignant level. For me anyway. IIRC, one
of
the most difficult obstacles in sending a mission to Mars was the
transportation of needed water.

In a way it is irrelevent. With our current blast off and coast
technology
in which most of the trip is in free fall by the time the astronauts get
to
Mars their bones are in dreadful shape and they are thoroughly
irradiated by
solar flares. In short, a trip to Mars, with our current technology, is
a
suicide mission and it really does not make any difference if there is
water
waiting for the travelers or not.

Bob Kolker

Micro-g is not a long term problem. The Russians have had a man in
orbit for up to 14 months, and he managed to walk away from the Soyuz
after landing.

There is a lot of data out there, obviously you are not familiar with
it.

Indeed. "Yuri V. Romanenko, a conscientious exerciser, who landed after 329
days aboard Mir, later performed a one-arm handstand after being nagged by
reporters."

~rev