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The Great American Eclipse



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 28th 17, 01:43 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default The Great American Eclipse

It is 500 years since Copernicus first presented the reason why the Earth is in motion and the Sun remains stationary and central to the solar system however his work was incomplete in his effort to satisfy predictive astronomy, a throwback to an era when the Sun was thought to move through the background field of stars.

There should be no argument as to the actual loops accomplished by the inner planets Venus and Mercury -

http://www.popastro.com/images/plane...ary%202012.jpg

For those who get to enjoy the eclipse first hand it is impossible to do anything other than absorb the spectacle without giving too much thought to these issues and that is the way it is supposed to be. I saw the partial eclipse about 2 1/2 years ago and was fortunate that cloud cover made for a spectacular event. Afterwards it is fitting to demonstrate that the eclipse suspends the limiting observation of dawn/twilight appearances and provides a momentary glimpse of the solar system as it actually is courtesy of the shading by our moon. People may not believe in miracles but it is one.
  #2  
Old July 28th 17, 01:43 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Mike Collins[_4_]
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Default The Great American Eclipse

Gerald Kelleher wrote:
It is 500 years since Copernicus first presented the reason why the Earth
is in motion and the Sun remains stationary and central to the solar
system however his work was incomplete in his effort to satisfy
predictive astronomy, a throwback to an era when the Sun was thought to
move through the background field of stars.

There should be no argument as to the actual loops accomplished by the
inner planets Venus and Mercury -

http://www.popastro.com/images/plane...ary%202012.jpg

For those who get to enjoy the eclipse first hand it is impossible to do
anything other than absorb the spectacle without giving too much thought
to these issues and that is the way it is supposed to be. I saw the
partial eclipse about 2 1/2 years ago and was fortunate that cloud cover
made for a spectacular event. Afterwards it is fitting to demonstrate
that the eclipse suspends the limiting observation of dawn/twilight
appearances and provides a momentary glimpse of the solar system as it
actually is courtesy of the shading by our moon. People may not believe
in miracles but it is one.


It's 500 years since Copernicus rehashed the theory of Aristarchus and then
covered up the source of his ideas by removing the references to him from
the published version.

  #3  
Old July 28th 17, 02:04 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Posts: 1,551
Default The Great American Eclipse

On Friday, July 28, 2017 at 1:47:50 PM UTC+1, Mike Collins wrote:
Gerald Kelleher wrote:
It is 500 years since Copernicus first presented the reason why the Earth
is in motion and the Sun remains stationary and central to the solar
system however his work was incomplete in his effort to satisfy
predictive astronomy, a throwback to an era when the Sun was thought to
move through the background field of stars.

There should be no argument as to the actual loops accomplished by the
inner planets Venus and Mercury -

http://www.popastro.com/images/plane...ary%202012.jpg

For those who get to enjoy the eclipse first hand it is impossible to do
anything other than absorb the spectacle without giving too much thought
to these issues and that is the way it is supposed to be. I saw the
partial eclipse about 2 1/2 years ago and was fortunate that cloud cover
made for a spectacular event. Afterwards it is fitting to demonstrate
that the eclipse suspends the limiting observation of dawn/twilight
appearances and provides a momentary glimpse of the solar system as it
actually is courtesy of the shading by our moon. People may not believe
in miracles but it is one.


It's 500 years since Copernicus rehashed the theory of Aristarchus and then
covered up the source of his ideas by removing the references to him from
the published version.


Unlike your dour statement, the ancient astronomer made a good guess about the dual motions of the Earth by appealing to daily rotation and separately appealing to seasonal declination -

"..just as Cleanthes thought it right that the Greeks collectively should impeach Aristagoras the Stoic, of impiety, for overthrowing the altar of earth, because the fellow attempted to account for visible phenomena by supposing that the sky remains fixed, and that the earth rolls round down an oblique circle, turning at the same time upon its own axis" Plutarch

http://thriceholy.net/Texts/Moon.html

Copernicus used the observed motions of the other planets to infer a sun centered system and therefore the orbital motion of the Earth however the view is limited to the outer planets -

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap011220.html

The upcoming eclipse is an opportunity to focus on the inner planets as they run their circuits around the Sun and back and forth against the background stars with special attention to the transition to a dawn appearance as they move in front of the central Sun and an evening appearance as they move behind the Sun. The outer planets move in the opposite direction from left to right behind the Sun as the Earth loops these planets year on year, a thrilling insight for those who wish to work on something productive after the eclipse happens.

It is indeed the Great American Eclipse as observers get a glimpse of the inner planets to the left and right of the Sun, something denied observers at all other times, at least from the surface of the Earth.



  #4  
Old July 28th 17, 02:31 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Default The Great American Eclipse

Well, there was one reference: "some even say that Aristarchus of Samos was of this opinion"; as Archimedes' Sand Reckoner was published the year after Copernicus' death, he had no chance to know more, as an
interesting paper by Owen Gingerich points out.

John Savard
  #5  
Old July 28th 17, 05:40 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Posts: 1,551
Default The Great American Eclipse

On Friday, July 28, 2017 at 1:47:50 PM UTC+1, Mike Collins wrote:
Gerald Kelleher wrote:
It is 500 years since Copernicus first presented the reason why the Earth
is in motion and the Sun remains stationary and central to the solar
system however his work was incomplete in his effort to satisfy
predictive astronomy, a throwback to an era when the Sun was thought to
move through the background field of stars.

There should be no argument as to the actual loops accomplished by the
inner planets Venus and Mercury -

http://www.popastro.com/images/plane...ary%202012.jpg

For those who get to enjoy the eclipse first hand it is impossible to do
anything other than absorb the spectacle without giving too much thought
to these issues and that is the way it is supposed to be. I saw the
partial eclipse about 2 1/2 years ago and was fortunate that cloud cover
made for a spectacular event. Afterwards it is fitting to demonstrate
that the eclipse suspends the limiting observation of dawn/twilight
appearances and provides a momentary glimpse of the solar system as it
actually is courtesy of the shading by our moon. People may not believe
in miracles but it is one.


It's 500 years since Copernicus rehashed the theory of Aristarchus and then
covered up the source of his ideas by removing the references to him from
the published version.


I wouldn't have marked you as a thug but I have watched you descend over the years into that condition as opposed to the mediocre nuisances and screaming heads which have to be endured.

http://earthsky.org/astronomy-essent...s-bright-stars

There is so much going on in that graphic as Mercury will pass in front of the Sun,Venus is heading back behind the Sun while the Earth will overtake Mars before the planet moves from left to right and behind the Sun in the years ahead.

The eclipse itself as an event can be enjoyed as the moon moves to its orbital position of new moon and that too is wonderful and was well understood in remote antiquity as it becomes lost to the Sun's glare each month -

https://www.mythicalireland.com/anci...toneillust.gif

There is nothing small-minded about astronomy throughout history but unfortunately, even with imaging that is spectacular and graphics that are so useful, none of this will be discussed before or after the eclipse.

  #6  
Old July 28th 17, 07:17 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Mike Collins[_4_]
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Posts: 2,824
Default The Great American Eclipse

Quadibloc wrote:
Well, there was one reference: "some even say that Aristarchus of Samos
was of this opinion"; as Archimedes' Sand Reckoner was published the year
after Copernicus' death, he had no chance to know more, as an
interesting paper by Owen Gingerich points out.

John Savard


Thomas Heath's book "The Copernicus of Antiquity: Aristarchus of Samos"
quotes this passage from Archimedes:
"You are now aware ['you' being King Gelon] that the "universe" is the name
given by most astronomers to the sphere the centre of which is the centre
of the earth, while its radius is equal to the straight line between the
centre of the sun and the centre of the earth. This is the common account
(τά γραφόμενα) as you have heard from astronomers. But Aristarchus has
brought out a book consisting of certain hypotheses, wherein it appears, as
a consequence of the assumptions made, that the universe is many times
greater than the "universe" just mentioned. His hypotheses are that the
fixed stars and the sun remain unmoved, that the earth revolves about the
sun on the circumference of a circle, the sun lying in the middle of the
orbit, and that the sphere of the fixed stars, situated about the same
centre as the sun, is so great that the circle in which he supposes the
earth to revolve bears such a proportion to the distance of the fixed stars
as the centre of the sphere bears to its surface.

— The Sand Reckoner

Copernicus revised his book to remove any reference to this passage from
the final version of De Revolutionibus Caelestibus.
"Credible est hisce similibusque causis Philolaum mobilitatem terrae
sensisse, quod etiam nonulli Aristarchum Samium ferrunt in eadam guises
sententia."
  #7  
Old July 28th 17, 07:30 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Posts: 7,018
Default The Great American Eclipse

On Friday, July 28, 2017 at 12:21:59 PM UTC-6, Mike Collins wrote:

Thomas Heath's book "The Copernicus of Antiquity: Aristarchus of Samos"


....here's a link to that book,
https://archive.org/details/aristarchusofsam00heatuoft

and here's a link to Owen Gingerich's article:

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1985JHA....16...37G

John Savard
  #8  
Old July 28th 17, 07:38 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Posts: 1,551
Default The Great American Eclipse

On Friday, July 28, 2017 at 7:21:59 PM UTC+1, Mike Collins

Of course you have problems with the main argument for the Earth's orbital motion which relies on relative speeds between the faster moving Earth and the slower moving outer planets.

"What appears in the planets as [the alternation of] retrograde and direct motion is due, not to their motion, but to the earth's. The motion of the earth alone, therefore, suffices [to explain] so many apparent irregularities in the heaven." Copernicus, Commentariolus

http://copernicus.torun.pl/en/archiv...=transkrypcja&

That description is incomplete as the inner planets run their circuits in a loop thereby requiring a back and forth motion like cars on a racetrack and captured lovingly by many astrophotographers with patience ,some giving size comparisons as Venus approaches the slower moving Earth -

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/170...h2017small.jpg

It is initially challenging to recognize that Venus and Mercury will move from right to left (morning to evening appearance) as they swing around behind the central Sun whereas the outer planets will always move from left to right as seen from a faster moving Earth. This is a new insight that really shouldn't be wasted before a major astronomical event.


The Great American Eclipse is an opportunity to open up the motions of the Earth and the solar system to the freshness of modern imaging and delight in the efforts of the old astronomers to create a narrative to build on.






  #9  
Old July 29th 17, 07:00 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris.B[_3_]
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Default The Great American Eclipse

On Friday, 28 July 2017 20:38:16 UTC+2, Gerald Kelleher wrote:

the efforts of the old astronomers to create a narrative to build on.


The lead singer of the "Screaming Heads" rock band has released a new, solo, acoustic album with a distinctive and some say, deliberately Retro feel to it.

Track 1. 1461
Track 2. Retrograde.
Track 3. Screaming Heads.
Track 4. Inferior Planets.
Track 5. Differential rotation.
Track 6. Orbital Motion.
Track 7. Copernicus.
Track 8. Ye Olde Religion.
Track 9. Modern Imaging.
Track 10. Latitude.
Track 11. Left to Right.
Track 12. Old Astronomers Never Die.
Track 13. Nuisances.
Track 14. You Tube Confusion.
Track 15. Time for My Meds?
Track 16. But When Will I be Whole Again?
Track 17. Timekeepin'.
Track 18. Just Trollin' Along.

[With massed choir on some tracks by kind permission of the RC Pedophilia Investment and Steam Suction Laundry Bank.]
  #10  
Old July 29th 17, 07:45 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Posts: 1,551
Default The Great American Eclipse

This is the only arena in which to express or promote the upcoming eclipse in a new light and I am sure that if things were normal this expression would be accepted without opposition. This is not the era of Copernicus when the contemporary geocentric astronomers were lost as to how to incorporate their predictive framework with the insight of Copernicus that the Earth moved and the Sun was the center of the solar system. Contemporaries today ,on the other hand, act like thugs and spoiled brats so better to say nothing than the histrionics that this topic does not deserve.

http://en.es-static.us/upl/2016/11/r...7595696172.jpg

In a few weeks observers will be faced with that wonderful glimpse of the planets and stars with the Sun in the frame and I wish I was there to experience it. The normal working language which makes sense of the motions and positions of those planets and stars to the Earth and to the central Sun is for astronomers insofar as without that language there is nothing left of astronomy .









 




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