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#11
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Large SRB test site in Florida
In article ,
says... On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 11:18:41 AM UTC-6, David Lesher wrote: How can you have a silo when the water table is a few feet below ground level? ...Simple. You find a material to line the outer walls of the silo to prevent sandtrout from encysting the water. It helps keep the sandworm population down to a bare minumum, and if you think twenty thumpers will call a bunch of worms, just watch what happens when someone fires off an SRB or two from Canaveral! Surprisingly, urban explorers have not found as much water inside the silo as one might expect. Certainly there is water at the lowest level, but it's not like the silo is completely full of water. The engineers must have done a good job making the thing relatively water tight. If it had been used operationally, I'm sure an appropriately sized sump pump would have sufficed to keep the silo dry. Jeff Well, part of the problem isn't so much water intrusion as much as creating a "raft". As long as you anchor the silo or somehow make it weigh enough, it shouldn't float to the surface. -- Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/ CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net |
#12
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Large SRB test site in Florida
"Jeff Findley" wrote in message ... In article , says... http://www.businessinsider.com/aeroj...cility-2012-10 Anyone have more details? This is well known by space history buffs who are interested in solids in particular. There is quite a bit of info about this on the Internet. As usual, astronautix.com has a good summary: AJ-260-2 http://www.astronautix.com/engines/aj2602.htm Hmm, I guess I wasn't aware they had actually done any testing. I know they had talked a lot about monsters this big. I just can't imagine a SRB 21' in diameter! The acoustics on that at lift-off would have been... incredible. NASA Technical server has a very good report: FINAL REPORT DETERMINATION OF PROCESSING AND TEST FACILITY REQUIREMENTS FOR LARGE SOLID ROCKET MOTORS VOLUME I: TASKJ -FACILITY MODIFICATION FOR FULL-LENGTH 260-IN.-DIA MOTOR PROCESSING AND TEST http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...v/19700027475_ 1970027475.pdf Also, there are several websites showing pictures of the site taken by "urban explorers" (or whatever they like to call themselves these days). Abandoned Florida - Aerojet-Dade Rocket Facility http://www.abandonedfl.com/?p=627 Jeff -- Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/ CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net |
#13
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Large SRB test site in Florida
Turns out a friend has been there. He worked for a guy who had a contract to make some sounding rockets for NASA. They visited the site as a possible manufacturing location. The only use being made of it at the time was the cops had a target range in one building. The rockets they made were solid fuel, with a nitrous oxide tank on top. They topped it off as it boiled until just before ignition. I got to sit in the control room at Wallops Island during one launch. -- A host is a host from coast to & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433 |
#14
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Large SRB test site in Florida
In article ,
"Greg \(Strider\) Moore" wrote: "Jeff Findley" wrote in message ... In article , says... http://www.businessinsider.com/aeroj...facility-2012- 10 Anyone have more details? This is well known by space history buffs who are interested in solids in particular. There is quite a bit of info about this on the Internet. As usual, astronautix.com has a good summary: AJ-260-2 http://www.astronautix.com/engines/aj2602.htm Hmm, I guess I wasn't aware they had actually done any testing. I know they had talked a lot about monsters this big. I just can't imagine a SRB 21' in diameter! The acoustics on that at lift-off would have been... incredible. NASA Technical server has a very good report: FINAL REPORT DETERMINATION OF PROCESSING AND TEST FACILITY REQUIREMENTS FOR LARGE SOLID ROCKET MOTORS VOLUME I: TASKJ -FACILITY MODIFICATION FOR FULL-LENGTH 260-IN.-DIA MOTOR PROCESSING AND TEST http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...v/19700027475_ 1970027475.pdf Also, there are several websites showing pictures of the site taken by "urban explorers" (or whatever they like to call themselves these days). Abandoned Florida - Aerojet-Dade Rocket Facility http://www.abandonedfl.com/?p=627 Jeff Having spent a number of years reviewing test results on much smaller SRBs, I can think of a rather large number of ways that a 21 ft diameter SRB can go wrong and really bite you. Just mixing and pouring the propellants is an art form, while handling and storing are yet another. We had a number of SLBM FS motors barf their nozzles, develop unstable burn patterns -- to name a couple of situations that caused failure. My conclusion is that solids are questionable for manned missions. |
#15
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Large SRB test site in Florida
adding flyash to concrete is said to help make it water proof.
even titan military silos had troubles with water getting in. on a associated note I think some florida silos should be used to keep emergency rockets to ISS available at all tmes. occasionally one could be used tom launch a regular supply module to keep the vehicles fresh. some day ISS is going to desperately need some key cargo on short noitice. having a few boosters ready to go could help prevent a disaster |
#16
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Large SRB test site in Florida
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#17
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Large SRB test site in Florida
Jeff Findley wrote:
This is dumb. What silos in Florida are still active? Why do this when ISS has the following resupply options: 1. Progress on Soyuz launcher (Russian) 2. ATV on Ariane 5 (Europe) 3. HTV on H-IIB (Japan) 4. Dragon on Falcon 9 (US, from Launch Complex 40 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station) 5. Cygnus on Antares, renamed from Taurus II (US, from Wallops Flight Facility, in Virginia) I'm going to to ahead and pick the nit on the fifth one there and say you are counting an as-yet un-hatched chicken there. Four! Four options for the resupplying mission! It is perhaps even more of a nit, but option 2 ceases after the fifth launch (per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_Transfer_Vehicle) Three! Three options for the resupplying mission! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-II_Transfer_Vehicle isn't terribly specific about continuing launches but I'll refrain from going down to two rick -- firebug n, the idiot who tosses a lit cigarette out his car window these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH... |
#19
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Large SRB test site in Florida
"Rick Jones" wrote in message ... I'm going to to ahead and pick the nit on the fifth one there and say you are counting an as-yet un-hatched chicken there. Four! Four options for the resupplying mission! It is perhaps even more of a nit, but option 2 ceases after the fifth launch (per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_Transfer_Vehicle) Three! Three options for the resupplying mission! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-II_Transfer_Vehicle isn't terribly specific about continuing launches but I'll refrain from going down to two What is this, the Spanish Inquisition? rick -- Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/ CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net |
#20
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Large SRB test site in Florida
Theres more in orbit debris endangering ISS and no tracking for
smaller pieces. LEO is getting crowded. now abandoning ISS might save a crew, although a debris impact could damage a attached soyuz. so crew survival, isnt assured. beyond which a damaged ISS without a crew can endager anyone under the ground track.. so having a few emergency transit vehicles in silos, with cargo pods ready to go is just smart thinking like planning for a shuttle stuck at station. if we can pay to keep ICBMs ready for instant launch then we should be able to afford some emergency supplies to orbit launchers now imagine the horror, a small piece of space debris too small to track damage ISS and just one of the 2 soyuz lifeboats. 3 crew members get back safely the remaing 3 die waiting for some crucial supplies, the stations control is lost and ISS breaks up depositing debris that survive re entry all along the ground track hitting some major citys nasa is put out of business after some congressional hearings. all preventable with just a few emergency cargo rockets had been built |
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