Debris found in Southern CA Desert - Anyone know what it might be?

The item in the photo at the link below was found impacted on the
desert floor .... anyone seen anything like this before?

Please excuse the shadow - the photographer wasn't paying attention.


121KB

http://home.earthlink.net/~jpa_2/wreckage_sm.jpg

Paul wrote:

The item in the photo at the link below was found impacted on the
desert floor .... anyone seen anything like this before?

Please excuse the shadow - the photographer wasn't paying attention.


121KB

http://home.earthlink.net/~jpa_2/wreckage_sm.jpg


The three tubular things look like hydraulic or pneumatic cylinders.

Pat

In article ,
says...


Paul wrote:

The item in the photo at the link below was found impacted on the
desert floor .... anyone seen anything like this before?

Please excuse the shadow - the photographer wasn't paying attention.


121KB

http://home.earthlink.net/~jpa_2/wreckage_sm.jpg


The three tubular things look like hydraulic or pneumatic cylinders.

My first thought was to wonder if this was found anywhere near
Columbia's groundtrack over CA. But while Columbia was shedding some
pieces as early as over California, my understanding is that it was only
shedding relatively small pieces of wing and tile at that point.
Nothing like this. Also, most of the stuff coming off the shuttle at
that point was going so fast that it was completely consumed during its
subsequent entry heating. This stuff looks like it wasn't seriously
burned, just crunched real good. (Looks like it might be a touch
charred around the edges, though.)

Could be a piece of a satellite... or of an airplane that suffered some
major mishap in the skies above the desert. And remember that the
southwest US deserts are used as the setting for a lot of air fighting
practice -- including the shooting down of drones, both to test missile
systems and to hone pilots' skills in the use of weapons systems. So,
that's another potential source.

I doubt there's anything sinister about it, though.

Doug

Thanks for your comments...

According to the finder, apparently there were no obvious
manufacturer's marking on the components nor any recognizable
aircraft-type fasteners, and it impacted directly down rather than
skidding along the ground first. There were no other parts found in
the area. And I haven't found any part of a plane that looks like
this or has this functional capability.

I'm not sure if the cylinders are actuators or propellant thruster
valves - the person who found it tells me there are 10 or so of them
in an array. If the prior, perhaps it's part of an early satellite.
If the latter, I don't know why there would be so many unless they
provide some sort of shock absorbing function. It appears there are
manifold tubes connecting them together and note that there is a
connection in the middle of the cylinder - not usual for an actuator -
more normal for a thruster valve.

The sheet metal design details make me think it's a properly designed
and manufactered item rather than a one-off R&D assembly which would
look much less-sophisticated.

The history of the area where found leads me to believe it was not
part of any local activity - despite the considerable military useage
of the desert, including rocket development, none of it appeared to
involve large items with this level of technology. I think it came
from some distance away either as part of a rocket, or from space.

I'm thinking it's part of an old satellite, possibly Russian.

-Paul



On Mon, 24 May 2004 08:35:25 GMT, Doug...
wrote:

In article ,
says...


Paul wrote:

The item in the photo at the link below was found impacted on the
desert floor .... anyone seen anything like this before?

Please excuse the shadow - the photographer wasn't paying attention.


121KB

http://home.earthlink.net/~jpa_2/wreckage_sm.jpg


The three tubular things look like hydraulic or pneumatic cylinders.

My first thought was to wonder if this was found anywhere near
Columbia's groundtrack over CA. But while Columbia was shedding some
pieces as early as over California, my understanding is that it was only
shedding relatively small pieces of wing and tile at that point.
Nothing like this. Also, most of the stuff coming off the shuttle at
that point was going so fast that it was completely consumed during its
subsequent entry heating. This stuff looks like it wasn't seriously
burned, just crunched real good. (Looks like it might be a touch
charred around the edges, though.)

Could be a piece of a satellite... or of an airplane that suffered some
major mishap in the skies above the desert. And remember that the
southwest US deserts are used as the setting for a lot of air fighting
practice -- including the shooting down of drones, both to test missile
systems and to hone pilots' skills in the use of weapons systems. So,
that's another potential source.

I doubt there's anything sinister about it, though.

Doug

On Mon, 24 May 2004 17:18:47 GMT, Paul wrote:

I'm thinking it's part of an old satellite, possibly Russian.

....Either that, or Art's Parts has a new model out :-)

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

Paul wrote:

Thanks for your comments...

According to the finder, apparently there were no obvious
manufacturer's marking on the components nor any recognizable
aircraft-type fasteners, and it impacted directly down rather than
skidding along the ground first. There were no other parts found in
the area. And I haven't found any part of a plane that looks like
this or has this functional capability.

I'm not sure if the cylinders are actuators or propellant thruster
valves - the person who found it tells me there are 10 or so of them
in an array. If the prior, perhaps it's part of an early satellite.
If the latter, I don't know why there would be so many unless they
provide some sort of shock absorbing function. It appears there are
manifold tubes connecting them together and note that there is a
connection in the middle of the cylinder - not usual for an actuator -
more normal for a thruster valve.



If they are for shock absorbsion could this be part of an escape capsule
of some sort? It looks sort of heavy and primative for something
space-related. On the other hand, the cylinder on the right-hand size of
the image seems to have a thermal blanket around it...is this an
engine-gimbaling assembly?

Pat

On Mon, 24 May 2004 05:59:12 GMT, Paul wrote:

The item in the photo at the link below was found impacted on the
desert floor .... anyone seen anything like this before?

Yeah, not exactly like, but it's pretty obviously aircraft debris. I
mean, it hasn't reentered the atmosphere, since there's no melting and
the paint is still there, so it's not part of a satellite or
spacecraft.

For some reason, I keep thinking F-4. I don't know why, though. How
about some dimensions and materials? A picture may be worth a
thousand words, but a picture with dimensions and some words is worth
a lot more.

Can you give me an approximate latitude and longitude so I can look it
up on my Western Aeronautical Test Range maps? The more correct they
are, the more useful, but that may not be possible.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

On Mon, 24 May 2004 13:00:34 -0700, Mary Shafer
wrote:

For some reason, I keep thinking F-4. I don't know why, though.

....I do. A quick image AutoContrast in Photoshop revealed the
following text enscribed on one of the flat plates that were obviously
inside the aircraft, which read as follows:

"Mary S. Was Here. For a good time call (XXX) XXX-XXXX!"

....I'll have the link to the photo up shortly. In the meantime, I just
pulled another 36 hour marathon web work session. Sleep beckons.

"To dream, perchance to sleep."

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

The three tubular things look like hydraulic or pneumatic cylinders.

Pat BRBR


I can't imagine this being a satellite or components thereof. There's almost
no evidence of heating, and the impact speed should have been high enough to
both crush and bury it a lot more.

Knowing what it's not, of course, doesn't tell you what it is. Those
cylinders do look like actuators of some sort. It's not obvious (to me,
anyway) whether the tubing and connectors are for hydraulic fluid or for
compressed air. The idea of a balloon-borne instrument capsule comes to mind
for some reason, but that's just one possibility among many at this point.
I'll be very interested in finding out what the answer turns out to be.





Matt Bille
)
OPINIONS IN ALL POSTS ARE SOLELY THOSE OF THE AUTHOR

Mary and others,

I'm not familiar with quoting coords so bear with me. Within a mile.
the item is at:

Latitude North 33 deg 00'

Longitude West 116 deg 7'30"


I understand it's about 3 foot dia. Can't say if there are any exotic
alloys there.

A group of us under-employed folk from the local coffee shop might
visit the site later this week and take better photos. It's about a 2
hour drive and a half hour walk. We will look for nameplates but
don't plan on messing with it too much as it's in a state park.

FYI, the same image with less JPG compression is at:

http://home.earthlink.net/~jpa_2/wreckage.jpg


-Paul





On Mon, 24 May 2004 13:00:34 -0700, Mary Shafer
wrote:

On Mon, 24 May 2004 05:59:12 GMT, Paul wrote:

The item in the photo at the link below was found impacted on the
desert floor .... anyone seen anything like this before?

Yeah, not exactly like, but it's pretty obviously aircraft debris. I
mean, it hasn't reentered the atmosphere, since there's no melting and
the paint is still there, so it's not part of a satellite or
spacecraft.

For some reason, I keep thinking F-4. I don't know why, though. How
about some dimensions and materials? A picture may be worth a
thousand words, but a picture with dimensions and some words is worth
a lot more.

Can you give me an approximate latitude and longitude so I can look it
up on my Western Aeronautical Test Range maps? The more correct they
are, the more useful, but that may not be possible.

Mary