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Building a Base on Mars



 
 
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  #21  
Old August 8th 03, 08:26 PM
G=EMC^2 Glazier
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Default Building a Base on Mars

To All Bubble gum will not work. What Mars has lots of on its surface is
sand. The best building material,and easy to get to is sand,so sand bags
it is.Not burlap,but plastic(its lighter) We just might have to engineer
it with a Roman arch for a dome. Bert

  #22  
Old August 13th 03, 08:57 PM
G=EMC^2 Glazier
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BV Water can be recycled. What I see of Mars surface there is no water.
It is NASA that can get billions of bucks looking for water on Mars.
I go with dust for I know its is there. NASA gets no bucks for dust.
Making a spaceship out of a Mars moon is a good idea. NASA would put
wings on it so it can kill. Bert

  #23  
Old August 13th 03, 11:14 PM
eyelessgame
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(G=EMC^2 Glazier) wrote in message ...
The best spot to build a base on Mars would be its north pole. Seems
to me its dust storms would not be as bad as at the equator.


While Herbert here is just playing, there are some serious things to
consider regarding where to put a Mars base.

First, temperature (and solar angle) make a difference. Some of your
electricity, and all your food, will come from solar energy; you want
near-equatorial for that.

It's far easier to take off to orbit when you can use the planet's
momentum (s'why we launch from southern Florida instead of, say, the
Midwest); you want equatorial for that, too.

You'll want water, and yes there's frozen water on the poles, but one
of the exciting discoveries of the last two years is the realization
of just how much water is available in the near subsurface all over
the planet. That said, Martian immigrants will almost certainly
remain vegetarian for decades at least, since plants take far, far
less energy to grow than any animals do (with few exceptions, edible
animals require you first to grow plants to feed *them*; when your
habitable space is as limited as humans are likely to face for the
short-to-medium term on Mars, you don't really have the luxury of
feeding the middleman.)

You'll want to spend a lot of your time underground -- your UV
exposure, among other things, is a bit nasty on the surface -- but
digging on Mars anywhere is unlikely to be a serious problem. But you
want to avoid the frozen CO2 of the poles, anyway, since it sublimates
in the summer. Instead, what you want to do is be near the regular
soil, since Martian iron is plentiful in the soil, iron is easy to
smelt, you have carbon to make steel, and iron weighs less on Mars
than alumnium on Earth, making it extremely easy to work with.

If it turns out there's any subsurface heat remaining on Mars --
geothermal, if you pardon the malaprop -- you'd like to place a colony
near it, to try to tap it.

And don't forget the reasons why you go in the first place. You want
access to the unfrozen surface (and warmest surfaces) to do
exobiology; you want access to the greatest range of terrain to do
(ahem) exogeology; you want mobility across the planet to do
exploration, mining, tourism, and other sciences; you want direct
sunlight (and a 24-hour light/dark cycle) to grow crops for export to
future colonies elsewhere in the solar system.

So -- Herbert, or EMC2, as you prefer -- it's good that you're
thinking about these things, but you'll find it's much more likely
that we'll make our initial Mars bases equatorial rather than polar.

We'll want, of course, to get to the poles eventually. If we can heat
them just a bit -- the south pole especially, since it has more CO2 --
it's possible we can put enough CO2 into the atmosphere to produce a
runaway greenhouse that will thicken and warm the Martian atmosphere
to the point where humans can walk outside in a parka, breathing mask,
and heavy sunscreen.

(Food? Sure. The case can be made that Mars will grow
cheaper-to-export food than anyplace else in the solar system, since
it has most of the advantages Earth does --- gravity, 24-hour days,
plentiful CO2, organic chemistry and nitrogen -- and it's enormously
closer by delta-vee to the asteroids than Earth is, and has a thinner
atmosphere and lower gravity than Earth's to lift out of. However, by
the time we get our behinds in gear and start making /use/ of the
solar system, it's quite possible most of those will be irrelevant
advantages given the degree to which we'll be able to bioengineer our
crops.)

All this assumes, of course, that Revelations doesn't become
self-fulfilling prophecy thanks to the dangerous ****wits currently
ruining our country.

eyelessgame
  #24  
Old August 14th 03, 12:04 AM
Fred Williams
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G=EMC^2 Glazier wrote:

Building a base on Mars might not be as practical,as building a
base on Mars moon that circles Mars every 8 hours. We are not going
to find drinking water on Mars surface. On its surface its dust
storms could be a great hazard it they blow at 125mph. My thought is
we can live easier
on that low orbiting moon,and see much more of Mars In
about 223,000 years we will hollow our this moon,and make a huge
spaceship out of it to travel to the Oort belt,and refuel there and
go on to Alfa
Certuri. Bert


Hi Bert,
223,000 years? I hope that's a misprint. Mars should have been
settled, exploited, wasted and forgotten by then.(:-)) Or maybe
NASA will have more budget delays.
Hollowing out Phobos & Deimos would provide a hard shell for a space
station, but what do we do for gravity?,... tie the two together and
spin them? Then there's not much there in the way of resources.
Everything has to be freighted in at great expense.
Still it might provide good sheilding from... solar flares?? I'm not
sure about that. Perhaps someone who's knowledge is more current can
fill that in.

--
Regards
Fred

Remove FFFf to reply, please
  #25  
Old August 14th 03, 12:55 AM
Robert Ehrlich
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If one wants to understand another planet--the worst choice would be a
fixed base. Forgetting about the economics, feasibility. etc. a base
wuld allow one to explore mars to ones heart's content in a radius if 10
km from the base. Pretty boring after those years in transit.

eyelessgame wrote:

(G=EMC^2 Glazier) wrote in message ...


The best spot to build a base on Mars would be its north pole. Seems
to me its dust storms would not be as bad as at the equator.



While Herbert here is just playing, there are some serious things to
consider regarding where to put a Mars base.

First, temperature (and solar angle) make a difference. Some of your
electricity, and all your food, will come from solar energy; you want
near-equatorial for that.

It's far easier to take off to orbit when you can use the planet's
momentum (s'why we launch from southern Florida instead of, say, the
Midwest); you want equatorial for that, too.

You'll want water, and yes there's frozen water on the poles, but one
of the exciting discoveries of the last two years is the realization
of just how much water is available in the near subsurface all over
the planet. That said, Martian immigrants will almost certainly
remain vegetarian for decades at least, since plants take far, far
less energy to grow than any animals do (with few exceptions, edible
animals require you first to grow plants to feed *them*; when your
habitable space is as limited as humans are likely to face for the
short-to-medium term on Mars, you don't really have the luxury of
feeding the middleman.)

You'll want to spend a lot of your time underground -- your UV
exposure, among other things, is a bit nasty on the surface -- but
digging on Mars anywhere is unlikely to be a serious problem. But you
want to avoid the frozen CO2 of the poles, anyway, since it sublimates
in the summer. Instead, what you want to do is be near the regular
soil, since Martian iron is plentiful in the soil, iron is easy to
smelt, you have carbon to make steel, and iron weighs less on Mars
than alumnium on Earth, making it extremely easy to work with.

If it turns out there's any subsurface heat remaining on Mars --
geothermal, if you pardon the malaprop -- you'd like to place a colony
near it, to try to tap it.

And don't forget the reasons why you go in the first place. You want
access to the unfrozen surface (and warmest surfaces) to do
exobiology; you want access to the greatest range of terrain to do
(ahem) exogeology; you want mobility across the planet to do
exploration, mining, tourism, and other sciences; you want direct
sunlight (and a 24-hour light/dark cycle) to grow crops for export to
future colonies elsewhere in the solar system.

So -- Herbert, or EMC2, as you prefer -- it's good that you're
thinking about these things, but you'll find it's much more likely
that we'll make our initial Mars bases equatorial rather than polar.

We'll want, of course, to get to the poles eventually. If we can heat
them just a bit -- the south pole especially, since it has more CO2 --
it's possible we can put enough CO2 into the atmosphere to produce a
runaway greenhouse that will thicken and warm the Martian atmosphere
to the point where humans can walk outside in a parka, breathing mask,
and heavy sunscreen.

(Food? Sure. The case can be made that Mars will grow
cheaper-to-export food than anyplace else in the solar system, since
it has most of the advantages Earth does --- gravity, 24-hour days,
plentiful CO2, organic chemistry and nitrogen -- and it's enormously
closer by delta-vee to the asteroids than Earth is, and has a thinner
atmosphere and lower gravity than Earth's to lift out of. However, by
the time we get our behinds in gear and start making /use/ of the
solar system, it's quite possible most of those will be irrelevant
advantages given the degree to which we'll be able to bioengineer our
crops.)

All this assumes, of course, that Revelations doesn't become
self-fulfilling prophecy thanks to the dangerous ****wits currently
ruining our country.

eyelessgame



  #26  
Old August 14th 03, 02:04 PM
G=EMC^2 Glazier
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Default

Hi eyelessgame We do have the landings(very successful) on the moon.
My problem with todays NASA they could not even copy what Apollo did.
We could use one of Mars moons as an orbiting platform(its there,and
big) It could be a free stepping stone to launch the Mars lander.
Since finding water is our main objective(I would think so) we should
look for Mars wet lands. That means not landing in areas that look like
a desert. We know hot molten lava is generated deep down. As it rises
and meets cooler rocks,which contain hydrogen the magna melts these
rock,releasing hydrogen to form water. To sum that thought up "is there
water in the magma?" Lets land on the flat area close to that very
tall volcano Bert

  #27  
Old August 14th 03, 04:49 PM
eyelessgame
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Default

Robert Ehrlich wrote in message news:odA_a.95077$cF.29127@rwcrnsc53...

eyelessgame wrote:
[something you've already read if you're following this thread]


If one wants to understand another planet--the worst choice would be a
fixed base. Forgetting about the economics, feasibility. etc. a base
wuld allow one to explore mars to ones heart's content in a radius if 10
km from the base. Pretty boring after those years in transit.


Well, yes, a base isn't something to do till you've landed several
explorations first. But a base is important for staying on Mars
long-term -- you need a decent amount of shielding to live under if
you're going to stay for very long, and the easiest way to get
shielding over you is to dig. And we won't be going to Mars just for
exploration. Anyplace humans can go, humans will eventually want to
settle.

As for "10 km", keep in mind that humans are tool-using mammals. If
you're going to bring enough material to Mars to set up a base, bring
a truck -- a 1-ton two-person pressurized-cab methane-burning truck.
(Every expedition should bring a truck, including the first one.) You
should be able to rove 500 km at least.

Operating a truck is cheap. You can make all the fuel you want with
electricity, a small chemistry lab and pump, water, and carbon dioxide
-- electrolyze the water, store the oxygen, heat the hydrogen and the
CO2 together in the presence of palladium, making methane (and water),
repeat till your methane and oxygen tanks are full.

(You get the electricity either from a tiny nuclear plant -- like the
one we're using on Cassini -- or with large solar panels and patience.
Or, if we get lucky, from geothermal.)

Is it time to mention _The Case For Mars_ at this point?
http://tinyurl.com/k0s3 (takes you to Amazon)

eyelessgame
  #28  
Old August 15th 03, 07:11 AM
Ted & Beth
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Why bother with settling on mars?

We should be creating habitat's that serve as companions rather then prisons
for the long journey's ahead. Mars and bodies such as these are for AMD
(auto-motivated devices) controlled in a virtual environment in the safety
and comfort of the habitat as it extends it's reach to recover the vast
resources they may offer on the journey by.

Would a double enclosed sphere with a pressurized chamber filled with h2o
say 15 to 30 feet thick provide enough protection from the harmful UV's
while still transmitting enough light to satisfy min. req. for growing and
sustaining life ?

If these two spheres were rotating in different directions and speeds, would
there be a potential for large amounts of energy to be developed as a
"field" around the motion of the water. The control of direction and speed
would be a multiplier for the amount of potential energy available. Similar
to the current generated around the flow of gas powering a gas regulator on
a water heater.

Aquatic cultures, life forms and valuable oxygen can be stored in the h2o,
easily sustained, harvested and transplanted to all of the faraway places in
the universe!

---E


--
"Believing is an action verb"




  #29  
Old August 15th 03, 08:06 PM
G=EMC^2 Glazier
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We can learn a lot from our base on the South Pole. It does have plenty
of ice,so water is no problem. And its air is breathable,but could be
deadly at 65 below zero?? Its great advantage is people living there
that have a tooth ache can be flown to a dentist the same day. Still it
is a dangerous place to live. The human body needs lots of protection so
it does not lose its heat. On Mars that would be just as true,and
earth's air is a must. Can't live off the land on the South Pole,and
can't live off the land of Mars. There is some sameness about Mars,and
our Earth's South Pole,but the big difference is distance,and water
Bert

  #30  
Old August 18th 03, 03:16 PM
G=EMC^2 Glazier
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We would have to use are space ship as our base on Mars. The only
difference from Mars surface and outer space is gravity. I would think
space is safer. No sand storms. No rock slides. No static
electricity. It would be nice if the space ship landed rather than a
lander craft,from the space ship. I think by the time we send men to
Mars we should have this technology. I find the space suits the
astronauts wear at this time are much to bulky,and should be slimed down
for greater flexibility. Bert

 




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