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Query about Mars



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 22nd 03, 07:52 PM
Andrew McKay
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Default Query about Mars

I was musing about the following situation, maybe someone can offer
some thoughts?

WRT to Mars my current understanding is that the climate is harshly
carbon dioxide (is it?). If it is then we know that trees and plants
can change carbon dioxide into more friendly climatic gasses for human
habitation.

So if there were water deposits found on Mars, how viable would it be
to engineer some serious vegetation on the planet so that the
atmosphere starts to develop more human friendliness? Obviously the
vegetation would also need its own life support systems such as
insects and so on, so it would generally take rather more than a
packet of seeds from the garden centre.

I appreciate it's not an overnight change, and it could in fact be
hundreds of years (or longer) before the climate was friendly enough
to support human life.

The question is purely rhetorical as I'm interested to know if this
would be a feasible option.

Andrew

Problems scheduling resources? Check out
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  #2  
Old June 22nd 03, 10:09 PM
Sally
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Default Query about Mars

The CO2 atmosphere at the surface of Mars has a pressure of around one
hundredth of sea level pressure here on earth. Actually, the CO2 partial
pressure on Mars might be similar to that on earth, but the big problem is
that liquid water will not hang around for long at this atmospheric
pressure, it will be either solid or gaseous depending on temperature. The
water in any (earth like) higher plant cell on Mars will either freeze and
disrupt the cell contents or it will boil and burst the cell walls. Maybe at
some depth below the surface things might be more conducive to plant growth
if an alternative to solar input could be found for an energy source. Or
maybe plants could one day be grown under pressurised domes.

However, my scepticism to most Terraforming ideas arises from the fact that
we have a perfectly good Earthlike ecosystem here on Earth, and we can't
even maintain that. So what chance do we have of constructing one from
nothing?

Sally

"Andrew McKay" wrote in message
...
I was musing about the following situation, maybe someone can offer
some thoughts?

WRT to Mars my current understanding is that the climate is harshly
carbon dioxide (is it?). If it is then we know that trees and plants
can change carbon dioxide into more friendly climatic gasses for human
habitation.

So if there were water deposits found on Mars, how viable would it be
to engineer some serious vegetation on the planet so that the
atmosphere starts to develop more human friendliness? Obviously the
vegetation would also need its own life support systems such as
insects and so on, so it would generally take rather more than a
packet of seeds from the garden centre.

I appreciate it's not an overnight change, and it could in fact be
hundreds of years (or longer) before the climate was friendly enough
to support human life.

The question is purely rhetorical as I'm interested to know if this
would be a feasible option.

Andrew

Problems scheduling resources? Check out
KazPlan Enterprise and Personal Editions!
at http://www.kazmax.co.uk/OurSoftware.asp



  #3  
Old June 22nd 03, 10:33 PM
Andrew McKay
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Default Query about Mars

On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 22:09:13 +0100, "Sally"
wrote:

However, my scepticism to most Terraforming ideas arises from the fact that
we have a perfectly good Earthlike ecosystem here on Earth, and we can't
even maintain that. So what chance do we have of constructing one from
nothing?


With that I have to agree.

Thanks for your comments. WRT to the air pressure situation, I
understand. Presumably it would be feasible to build some sort of
environment which could support life though?

Andrew

Problems scheduling resources? Check out
KazPlan Enterprise and Personal Editions!
at http://www.kazmax.co.uk/OurSoftware.asp
  #4  
Old June 23rd 03, 12:09 PM
Sally
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Default Query about Mars

Yes, given sufficient willpower and resources I believe that it would be
possible. There are several projects underway around the world attempting to
maintain isolated mini-ecosystems. The Eden project was (I think) one of the
first. It even had a small crew of people in the dome. Some valuable lessons
were learned before things started to go wrong. I think that it had to be
abandoned due to excessive CO2 buildup. The crew were also struggling to
produce enough food from the system and lost a lot of weight.

Sally

"Andrew McKay" wrote in message
...
Thanks for your comments. WRT to the air pressure situation, I
understand. Presumably it would be feasible to build some sort of
environment which could support life though?



  #5  
Old June 23rd 03, 01:17 PM
G=EMC^2 Glazier
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Default Query about Mars

Hi Sally that is the reason why they have to dig down for those red
Martian clams. Sponges,and clams were the first major structures in the
early days of life,They strain bacteria out of water(no teeth) Moby
told me this,and added that like man came from the ape octopus came from
the clam. Bert

  #6  
Old June 24th 03, 01:26 AM
Sally
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Default Query about Mars

Clams are molluscs, I think. Same group as Moby and garden slugs and snails.
Last octopus I saw was in the wild, peeping at me from under a rock on the
sea bed.

I wonder about the chances of some local area on Mars having enough
pressure/temperature/energy input to support some sort of life? I'm thinking
of some sub surface location where a mini-ecosystem could survive, like the
communities around black smokers here on earth. I believe that specialised
clams have been found around those black smokers.

Did you know that octopus eyes are similar to ours? Except their retina is
the other way around with the optic nerves at the back. This means they
don't have a built-in blind spot like us poor vertebrates.

Sally

"G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote in message
...
Hi Sally that is the reason why they have to dig down for those red
Martian clams. Sponges,and clams were the first major structures in the
early days of life,They strain bacteria out of water(no teeth) Moby
told me this,and added that like man came from the ape octopus came from
the clam. Bert



  #7  
Old June 25th 03, 10:36 AM
Painius
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Default Query about Mars

"Andrew McKay" wrote in message ...
I was musing about the following situation, maybe someone can offer
some thoughts?

WRT to Mars my current understanding is that the climate is harshly
carbon dioxide (is it?). If it is then we know that trees and plants
can change carbon dioxide into more friendly climatic gasses for human
habitation.

So if there were water deposits found on Mars, how viable would it be
to engineer some serious vegetation on the planet so that the
atmosphere starts to develop more human friendliness? . . .


Let's say... some forms of life, we'll call them "luman beings," are
searching this section of the galaxy for a new place to live. The
lumans come across our Sun and find that the third planet from the
star has the best overall rating to support their species. But they
just have to make a few... uhm... adjustments to make the planet
perfectly suitable for lumans.

It's unfortunate that these "adjustments" will eradicate all forms of
life presently residing there. But who cares? The lumans are only
interested in making a place for themselves. Other life forms are
insignificant and can be anhilated. For lumans, it's okay to develop
other planets toward more "luman friendliness."

Are we human? or luman?

Andrew

Problems scheduling resources? Check out
KazPlan Enterprise and Personal Editions!
at http://www.kazmax.co.uk/OurSoftware.asp


happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Stardust in the solar wind...
all that is or ever been.
all we see and all we sin...
stardust in the solar wind.

Paine Ellsworth


  #8  
Old June 27th 03, 03:54 AM
G=EMC^2 Glazier
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Default Query about Mars

David I'm watching what I say. Let me ask you this does Mars atmosphere
have an ozone layer? A very well received theory put together in 1996 by
a German biochemist has the precursors of life may have first formed
around volcanic cracks in the ocean floor. His reasoning the earth's
atmosphere 3.5 billion years ago had no ozone layer. Without a ozone
layer there is no protection against ultraviolet radiation. Not until 3
billion years ago did the earth create an ozone layer and then life took
off. I think there has to be oxygen in the atmosphere to create ozone.
Has the Martian atmosphere some oxygen? I posted not to long ago that
a planet two times bigger than the earth,and lots of surface water
heated by the planet's internal heat could be more beneficial to life
than a planet near a sun,and no way to block out harmful radiation.
Harmful radiation from our sun kills a half million people a year
Still I like our sun,but I'm smart enough to stay in the shade.
Bert .

  #9  
Old June 27th 03, 06:15 AM
David Knisely
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Default Query about Mars

Bert posted:

Let me ask you this does Mars atmosphere
have an ozone layer?


Not like the Earth's. There is a small amount of Ozone in the
atmosphere of Mars (about 0.03 ppm at the surface), but its shielding
effects are fairly small.


Without a ozone
layer there is no protection against ultraviolet radiation.


Life originating in seas and oceans might also have some protection by
being under water.

Has the Martian atmosphere some oxygen?


Yes, it does, although again, the amount is fairly small (Martian
Atmospheric composition at the surface: 95.32% Carbon Dioxide, 2.7%
Nitrogen, 1.6% Argon, 0.13% Oxygen (diatomic), 0.03% Water Vapor, ect.).


--
David W. Knisely
Prairie Astronomy Club:
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
Hyde Memorial Observatory: http://www.hydeobservatory.info/

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