how to save the world from global warming

1) turn China and India and South America into rabid self aggrandising
capitalists, in the manner of the West, but more so, turn all of their
citizens into profligately wasteful materialistic fashion victims, just like
we are, but more so

2) raise their fashion sense into an art form where they will throw away
nearly new items en-mass, just cos they are uncool

3) make the items they throw away out of carbon based compounds sourced from
atmospheric carbon (and some fossil carbon to preserve the status quo) make
sure the manufacturing process uses "clean" energy

4) ensure that the discarded items en-mass are NOT bio-degradable
and are NOT recyclable - make sure that bio-degradable and recyclable are
dirty, unfashionable words

5) sequester the discarded items in mines or at the bottom of the ocean in
such a way as to make sure they do not break down into CO2, and so that we
never see them again - perhaps even turn them into space habitats

If all the worlds poor consume just one tonne of carbon each in this way,
then they will dispose of approx. 5 billion tonnes of CO2 per year, maybe
more

In other words, make the inevitable waste products of progress and
overpopulation work to solve the problem of global warming. And make all our
mistakes from the Industrail Revolution on, the saviour of us all...

too easy

remember
- recycling and bio-degradable are BAD
- waste and planned obsolescence are GOOD

Which goes to show the only thing which will save us is technology, and
not things like Kyoto.

But what Bush et al. miss, is that Kyoto is a strong driver for
technology development, which is one reason why the USA is so far
behind in most environmental technologies.

some would say that Kyoto is a VERY cynical play by the Japanese to deny the
tiger economies the same opportunity Japan has/had to develop.

Japanese industry is in no small part responsible for Global Warming and
greenhouse gases.

They have reaped a lot of benefit from explosive development, perhaps so
much that their contribution to global warming and greenhouse gases should
be calculated retro-actively. Kyoto is an arrogant attempt to cover their
tracks and offset blame (and costs) to other nations.

Blagoo - you are a clueless idiot who believes very stupid and
counter-productive things because you have no clue how things really
work. lol

You are more intent on blaming others rather than seeking solutions all
can support going forward - which perpetuates and expands our problems
as a species.

Global warming will be reversed but only if we can figure out how to
capture and make use of solar energy cheaply enough to compete in the
market with oil, and then use this new energy source to increase our
industrial system to include everyone on Earth while displacing oil
use. The resulting rising living standards along with rising technical
capacities will allow us to reverse all causes of global warming and
stabilize our environment for the long-term.

Global warming is caused partly by rising CO2 levels that increase the
thickness of the blanketing gases in our atmosphere. We extract carbon
compounds from deep within the Earth - carbon which represents stored
solar energy over very long periods - and burn them, and the carbon
dioxide remains in the atmosphere, removed by natural processes that
can't keep up with the industrial processes pumping them out. By
capturing solar energy cheaply and on a large enough scale, and using
that energy to extract carbon-dioxide from the atmosphere and re-create
hydrocarbon fuels to sell, we can create an industrial process that
gives us control over the carbon-dioxide level of the atmosphere to
drive it wherever we need to have it.

Global warming is also caused by increasing luminosity of the Sun
itself. Hydrogen fuses into Helium at the Sun's center, and the
Helium, being heavier than Hydrogen, falls to the center and begins to
fuse into heavier elements as well. Since Helium fuses at a higher
temperature than Hydrogen, the Sun gets brighter and brighter. In 900
million years the Sun will be so bright, that if nothing is done, the
Earth will be uninhabitable. NASA scientists have proposed a solution
to this problem, use a series of specially constructed, tiny atomic
bombs set off in sequence so as to divert a large asteroid into an
orbit that swings by Earth and Jupiter every 3,000 years - the asteroid
is slowed by the Earth but the Earth is sped up slightly by the
asteroid - which kicks it into a slightly higher orbit. The asteroid
swings by Jupiter, which speeds up the asteroid, but slows Jupiter
slightly - restoring the kinetic energy given the Earth - in effect
taking it from Jupiter. Since Jupiter is 100,000s times larger than
the Earth, its orbit is barely affected, but over three billion years,
the Earth is kicked into higher orbits, so that its temperature remains
constant, despite the increasing luminosity of the Sun. The
interesting part about this is that we will have stabilized the Earth's
environment for nearly 3 billion more years - and once the orbital
parameters are set up, the whole system need not be tampered with. So,
its something we can leave to posterity even if we're not around to
tend to it!

The GAIA principle says that life responds to challenges the
environment throws at it. Well, in respnose to the increasing
luminosity of the sun, life created photosynthesis which took CO2 out
of the air and created carbon compounds with it. Then geology took
that carbon and sequestered it in pools of liquid hydrocarbons deep
within the Earth. This moderated the rising temperature by reducing
CO2 levels. Rising oxygen levels gave rise to animals, and animals
gave rise to intelligence, and intelligence made use of stored energy
to drive the first generation of industrial development for Earth. The
resulting industrial intelligence observed its effect on the
environment the release of carbon stores had as well as the fact that
the Sun is getting brighter, and devised a means to preserve life well
beyond the 900 million years left to us naturally. Sweet.

But, most importantly, humanity is at a cross-roads today. We will
either fulfill our destiny as saviors of the world - long term, or we
will die, and another will take our place. We will either succumb to
the coming die off and a reduction in our capacity to do things, or we
will decide to face the challenges before us and do someting positive
about them and fulfill our destiny nature has for intelligence. This
has nothing to do with the lifestyle choices of the richest of us. It
has more to do with fundamental choices we have in relating to our
resources and our environment and each other and tapping into the inner
knowing about what we are here for and why we have this tremendous
intellectual and technical capacity in the first place.

Science and technology can make of this world a wonderous land of
plenty and abundance for all. Or, it can make of this world a
radioactive wasteland, or a global version of Beruit - before the final
end of our tenure on Earth. It all depends on how we choose to relate
to the world, and to one another. Once we have our heads on straight
as to how we need to relate to one another and the world, then our
success depends on whether or not we focus on the hard work ahead to to
fulfill our vision. Both require work and sacrifice - whether we're at
war with one another and the environment, or whether we promote one
another and the environment, doesn't change the fact that either choice
requires hard work and sacrifice - but in the end, choosing to promote
each other's dreams and the environment in which we live pays greater
dividends for all - even if we're selfish in our outlook. After all, a
millionaire in the Congo, where there is much poverty, is far wealthier
than his neighbors than a millionaire in NYC, where nearly everyone is
a millionaire it seems! But, which offers the better quality of life?
NYC obviously! BECAUSE everyone is wealthier. You cannot receive
excellent medical care or go to a thrilling Broadway play in the Congo
- BECAUSE a millionaire is so rare! Clearly we should strive therefore
to make of the whole world a wealthy and wonderous place as possible to
enrich us all - even the wealthiest of us. And technology and the
world allows this sort of thing to occur - if we're creative enough to
meet the challenges.

Still, people will ask, can we do this and still honor our commitment
to the environment? The answer is YES, WE CAN - IF WE TAP INTO
EXTRATERRESTRIAL RESOURCES TO MEET OUR GROWING INDUSTRIAL NEEDS.

The first of these is energy, and solar energy is the answer to our
shortages and problems with current industrial energy sources. Solar
energy is unique in that it arrives daily from deep in space without
any intervention from us! But industrial use of solar energy can only
be achieved by creating technical innovations that reduce the cost of
solar energy to be competitive with existing oil supplies. Here is how
things will develop over time;

1) NOW -Terrestrial Solar - AUGMENT OIL AND EVENTUALLY DISPLACE IT by
covering 90,000 sq km of land in deserts with low-cost solar collectors
to capture sunlight, and take water and CO2 out of the air and make
hydrocarbon fuels, which are then sold to the existing energy markets -
this will supply ALL the current energy needs of the planet and make
the extraction of oil and coal and nuclear fuels obsolete. To be
competitive with $60 per barrel oil this must all be done, including
all balance of systems costs, for about $0.72 per peak watt. If we can
achieve $0.36 per peak watt, we can halve the cost of oil, and
establish conditions for rapid economic growth worldwide, AND reduce
CO2 levels all at the same time. This is achieved by using
concentrated PV cells and using the intermittent DC electricity to
electrolyze water into H2 and O2 - releasing the bulk of the O2 - and
combining the H2 with CO2 to produce CH4 and then polymerizing the CH4
into longer chain hydrocarbon molecules like propane, butane, and
octane. Then, sell the resulting hydrocarbons to pay for the whole
operation. Also produced in this process are fertilizers by combining
H2 with N2 in the air, and clean water distilled from the air all at
competitive costs - generating 5 trillion watts continuously, and $55
trillion per year for 7.1 billion people rising at 0.5% per year in
numbers, whilst growing at 9% per year in income.

2) 2032 - Expanded Terrestrial Solar - THE HYDROGEN ECONOMY - will
expand the solar collector systems located in all major deserts - to
500,000 sq km while we convert to hydrogen based industrial processes
where possible. This will allow all people everywhere to live at
increased levels of abundance. Large quantities of low-cost water and
fertilizers increase food production efficiency, large quantities of
low-cost and clean fuels, increase rate of food production while
lowering costs, reducing the amount of money spent on food, while food
quality and volume increases, the spare income fuels an expansion of
economic activity worldwide. Total output 60 trillion watts and $700
trillion per year for 8 billion people with slowing population growth,
with economy accelerating - growing at 12% per year - sustained by
innovations in robotics and low cost energy.


3) 2062 - Space based Solar - BEAMED ENERGY FROM SPACE - collect
energy in space and beam it by controlled multiple laser beams to users
on the Earth - living standards correlate with per capita energy use.
This is likely to continue as living standards rise beyond their
current levels. In the 20th century mass production and technology
gave the world wheels -with a huge increase in productivity and living
standards. No longer are people isolated physically from one another.
In the 21st century automated production and abundant energy will give
the world wings. Micromachine based propulsive skins wrapped around
simple airframes, controlled by GPS guided computers, and powered by
laser beams from space, will make the personal VTOL/Ballistic aircraft
possible. Needing no fuel, or human guidance, these highly automated
craft will unite the world in a single economic and residential entity
- and eliminate the need for roads and cities and other intrusions on
the environment. Increasing efficiencies of space based systems
generating all optical power links will permit 1 quadrillion watts of
continuous energy production from 1.2 million sq kilometers of
powersat collector area which generates $20 quadrillion per year for 8
billion people - with rapidly rising living standards and vanishing
work week as robots take over all economic tasks. Average income level
is $200,000 PER MONTH in today's dollars.

In this sort of economic climate large scale planetary and
interplanetary projects become possible, these include over this same
time period;

a) SOLAR SYSTEM RESOURCE SURVEY - survey all asteroids in the solar
system, capture the richest of these and place them as artificial moons
into polar orbit around the Earth - then, send up remotely operated
factories to mine them and return the materials to Earth by rail gun
and GPS guided terminal rocket - all must be done at a cost of less
than mining and shipping the products on Earth. If done cheaply and
efficiently enough, all Earth based mines won't be able to compete and
all extractive industries will be shut down on Earth - supplanted by
space based resources - just as in the case of solar power

b) RESOURCE CAPTURE AND USE expand the orbital factories to include
production on orbit using solar power captured on orbit - energy can be
beamed to earth orbiting asteroids from earth orbiting powersats just
as easily as energy can be beamed to Earth's surface. So, with
remotely operated factories, or totally automated factories, its very
feasible to expand the orbiting factories to include finished goods and
even consumer goods delivered anywhere they're purchased to any point
on Earth. This must be done more cheaply than building and operating a
factory on Earth.

c) FOOD AND FIBER - construct pressure vessels and spin them to
produce artificial gravity and grow food and forests in the resulting
artificial environment - if the vessel is built for less cost per unit
area than farmland, and the farm and forest can be tended more cheaply
than farms and forests on the ground - then, we can grow all the food
and fiber we need in space, and export the resulting materials directly
to where they're needed on Earth. This can also supply the growing
space based industries, so, only consumer goods are exported to Earth.
This ends the use of farmlands and commercial forestry on Earth.

With the end of all energy, mining, processing, assembly, farming and
commercial forestry on Earth - and its removal and expansion of these
processes on orbit - the Earth's biosphere will no longer be disturbed
by industrial development.

With universal access to ballistic transport powered by solar pumped
laser beam from space, and with global wireless broadband, and with
global direct delivery from orbit, the need for roads and even cities
is eliminated as humans spread across the world in low density held
together by a tenuous network of space based technology.

Higher living standards translate first to higher population growth
rates, until VERY high living standards are encountered, which
ultimately reverses population growth (the US, Europe and Japan for
example have shrinking populations) - so, in this world we're
imagining, not only do none of the things people do adversely impact
the environment, not only are they spread far and wide across the
biosphere, but over time, there are fewer of them.

Finally, increasing energy levels and wealth mean that the cost of
travelling to space are within reach of everyman. That means that the
pressure vessels used for the commercial farms and forests of the
modern world will be adapted to housing growing numbers of people who
choose to live in space. The exodus of people from Earth will
accelerate the decline of humans on Earth and their impact on Earth.
With diminishing number of ever longer lived humans, there are growing
number of superhuman intelligences created by AI - and taking all
manner of robotic forms. These AI lacking all will-to-power are not
directly competitive with humans, but serve as an extension of human
will to power and expand the range and depth of human affairs -
spreading across the solar system, augmented by superhuman intellect in
large number fed by abundant solar energy and off-world resources every
human will have, by today's standards, nearly godlike powers to shape
and control their environment in any way they choose on artificial
worldlets of their own making.

Global warming will be reversed but only if we can figure out how to
capture and make use of solar energy cheaply enough to compete in the
market with oil, and then use this new energy source to increase our
industrial system to include everyone on Earth while displacing oil
use. The resulting rising living standards along with rising technical
capacities will allow us to reverse all causes of global warming and
stabilize our environment for the long-term.

when dickhead? the solution needs to be started now
sea levels are already rising
there is a lag of at least 100 years in the hysteresis curve


Global warming is caused partly by rising CO2 levels that increase the
thickness of the blanketing gases in our atmosphere. We extract carbon
compounds from deep within the Earth - carbon which represents stored
solar energy over very long periods - and burn them, and the carbon
dioxide remains in the atmosphere, removed by natural processes that
can't keep up with the industrial processes pumping them out. By

CO2 concs were an order of magnitude higher in times past - where do you
think the fecundity that allowed the production of fossil fuel deposits
originated?
The big issues are loss of arable land and existing population centers in
the SHORT TERM
- over the next 100 - 1000 years
the CO2 itself shouldn't cause a thermal runaway ala venus unless plant
growth is prevented from taking advantage of the abundance of CO2.

which it probably won't since a certain overabundant species has destroyed a
lot of the forests that could actively sequester CO2 as cellulose...

capturing solar energy cheaply and on a large enough scale, and using
that energy to extract carbon-dioxide from the atmosphere and re-create
hydrocarbon fuels to sell, we can create an industrial process that
gives us control over the carbon-dioxide level of the atmosphere to
drive it wherever we need to have it.

nothing so far can beat photosynthesis in terms of a large scale process you
are talking about
unfortunately nothing so far can beat the large corporations in destroying
the largest utilisers of photosynthesis - the forests


Global warming is also caused by increasing luminosity of the Sun
itself. Hydrogen fuses into Helium at the Sun's center, and the
Helium, being heavier than Hydrogen, falls to the center and begins to
fuse into heavier elements as well. Since Helium fuses at a higher
temperature than Hydrogen, the Sun gets brighter and brighter. In 900
million years the Sun will be so bright, that if nothing is done, the
Earth will be uninhabitable. NASA scientists have proposed a solution
to this problem, use a series of specially constructed, tiny atomic
bombs set off in sequence so as to divert a large asteroid into an
orbit that swings by Earth and Jupiter every 3,000 years - the asteroid
is slowed by the Earth but the Earth is sped up slightly by the
asteroid - which kicks it into a slightly higher orbit. The asteroid
swings by Jupiter, which speeds up the asteroid, but slows Jupiter
slightly - restoring the kinetic energy given the Earth - in effect
taking it from Jupiter. Since Jupiter is 100,000s times larger than
the Earth, its orbit is barely affected, but over three billion years,
the Earth is kicked into higher orbits, so that its temperature remains
constant, despite the increasing luminosity of the Sun. The
interesting part about this is that we will have stabilized the Earth's
environment for nearly 3 billion more years - and once the orbital
parameters are set up, the whole system need not be tampered with. So,
its something we can leave to posterity even if we're not around to
tend to it!

what a load of **** - it is the next 90 years you need to worry about!
the life cycle of a main sequence g type dwarf is irrelevant to this
discussion


The GAIA principle says that life responds to challenges the
environment throws at it. Well, in respnose to the increasing
luminosity of the sun, life created photosynthesis which took CO2 out
of the air and created carbon compounds with it. Then geology took
that carbon and sequestered it in pools of liquid hydrocarbons deep
within the Earth. This moderated the rising temperature by reducing
CO2 levels. Rising oxygen levels gave rise to animals, and animals
gave rise to intelligence, and intelligence made use of stored energy
to drive the first generation of industrial development for Earth. The
resulting industrial intelligence observed its effect on the
environment the release of carbon stores had as well as the fact that
the Sun is getting brighter, and devised a means to preserve life well
beyond the 900 million years left to us naturally. Sweet.


life only exploits niches

blah blah blah

instead of regurgitating a text book, why not suggest more concrete methods,
even if they are nutty
I have thrown out some proposals - you have just shot regurgitated **** out
of a textbook.
Come up with an original thought, or **** off.

BlagooBlanaa wrote:

1) turn China and India and South America into rabid self aggrandising
capitalists, in the manner of the West, but more so, turn all of their
citizens into profligately wasteful materialistic fashion victims, just
like we are, but more so

2) raise their fashion sense into an art form where they will throw away
nearly new items en-mass, just cos they are uncool

3) make the items they throw away out of carbon based compounds sourced
from atmospheric carbon (and some fossil carbon to preserve the status
quo) make sure the manufacturing process uses "clean" energy

4) ensure that the discarded items en-mass are NOT bio-degradable
and are NOT recyclable - make sure that bio-degradable and recyclable are
dirty, unfashionable words

5) sequester the discarded items in mines or at the bottom of the ocean in
such a way as to make sure they do not break down into CO2, and so that we
never see them again - perhaps even turn them into space habitats

If all the worlds poor consume just one tonne of carbon each in this way,
then they will dispose of approx. 5 billion tonnes of CO2 per year, maybe
more

In other words, make the inevitable waste products of progress and
overpopulation work to solve the problem of global warming. And make all
our mistakes from the Industrail Revolution on, the saviour of us all...

too easy

remember
- recycling and bio-degradable are BAD
- waste and planned obsolescence are GOOD


Stop reacting to chicken brain science.

A butt ****ing dumb hillbilly named NOG wrote:

Stop reacting to chicken brain science.

And continue to point out butt ****ing dumb hillbillies like NOG
and BlagooBlanaa for what they are, butt ****ing dumb Americans!

http://cosmic.lifeform.org

BlagooBlanaa wrote:

some would say that Kyoto is a

others would point out that you are an obvious crackpot.

You lied on your sig, therefore you are a liar.

http://cosmic.lifeform.org

"Alex Terrell" wrote:

:Which goes to show the only thing which will save us is technology, and
:not things like Kyoto.

Right so far.

:But what Bush et al. miss, is that Kyoto is a strong driver for
:technology development,

No, what it does is divert resources artificially, which is generally
a net lose.

:which is one reason why the USA is so far
:behind in most environmental technologies.

Uh, that turns out not to be the case. Please list the Kyoto
signatories that are actually hitting their CO2 targets.

--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 17:33:29 GMT, in a place far, far away, Fred J.
McCall made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:

:which is one reason why the USA is so far
:behind in most environmental technologies.

Uh, that turns out not to be the case. Please list the Kyoto
signatories that are actually hitting their CO2 targets.

Canada threw in the towel the other day.