Finding dark matter

Is it possible that all that elusive dark matter is just ordinary
matter not being illuminated? From the many planetary systems that
have formed in the galaxies, surely a large portion of the matter has
been lost into the interstellar spaces by slingshot effects of the
larger planets that stayed secure in the system. Could there be
billions of small black holes lurking in the darkness? Could our
galaxy be filled with more rogue planets and planetessimals than ones
attached by gravity to stars?

Related question: Supposedly when a Mars sized object struck earth and
ultimately caused our moon to be formed, it also tilted our planet on
its axis. What tilted the other planets on their axes? Mars is tilted
nearly as much as ours, I think. And how the heck did Nepture get
flipped almost 90 degrees to the plane of the ecliptic?

In article , 46erjoe
wrote:

Is it possible that all that elusive dark matter is just ordinary
matter not being illuminated? From the many planetary systems that
have formed in the galaxies, surely a large portion of the matter has
been lost into the interstellar spaces by slingshot effects of the
larger planets that stayed secure in the system. Could there be
billions of small black holes lurking in the darkness? Could our
galaxy be filled with more rogue planets and planetessimals than ones
attached by gravity to stars?

Some may be normal matter (baryonic) but the behaviour of galaxies
(such as the local group and the Great Attractor) together with the
flat rotation curves of galaxies suggest it isnt' Normal matter would
radiate (even in IR) and the fact is we cannot see it.

Related question: Supposedly when a Mars sized object struck earth and
ultimately caused our moon to be formed, it also tilted our planet on
its axis. What tilted the other planets on their axes? Mars is tilted
nearly as much as ours, I think. And how the heck did Nepture get
flipped almost 90 degrees to the plane of the ecliptic?

Possibly another impact. The early solar system was a pretty tumultous
place.

--
The greatest enemy of science is pseudoscience.

Jaffa cakes. Sweet delicious orangey jaffa goodness, and an abject lesson why
parroting information from the web will not teach you cosmology.

Official emperor of sci.physics. Please pay no attention to my butt poking
forward, it is expanding.

Relf's Law?
"Bull**** repeated to the limit of infinity asymptotically approaches
the odour of roses."

In article , 46erjoe
wrote:

Joe

Whats your maths like? I ask because MIT's Open Courseware has some
excellent astronomy and cosmology stuff you'd find fascinating - plus
any of Brian Greene's books...

--
The greatest enemy of science is pseudoscience.

Jaffa cakes. Sweet delicious orangey jaffa goodness, and an abject lesson why
parroting information from the web will not teach you cosmology.

Official emperor of sci.physics. Please pay no attention to my butt poking
forward, it is expanding.

Relf's Law?
"Bull**** repeated to the limit of infinity asymptotically approaches
the odour of roses."

I've loved astronomy from childhood. Built my own 6" reflector in 1962
at age 12. Ultimately however, I became a clergyman -- still heavenly
minded ;-) -- but continued an avid interest in astronomy. I read
voraciously now that I am on full disability, especially in the
interplay between science and religion. Just finished reading "Where
Is Everybody" by Stephen Webb and "Rare Earth" by Peter Ward / Donald
Brownlee, both in almost one sitting. John Polkinghorne
(http://www.polkinghorne.org/ is my hero. I'll check out Green's
books, but more academics is not my cup of tea right now - I'm
terminally ill (aren't we all?) so I surf the web and watch the
science channel to keep me informed. Thanks for your personal touch.

Best regards,

Joe


On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:04:22 +0100, Phineas T Puddleduck
wrotF:

In article , 46erjoe
wrote:

Joe

Whats your maths like? I ask because MIT's Open Courseware has some
excellent astronomy and cosmology stuff you'd find fascinating - plus
any of Brian Greene's books...

In article , 46erjoe
wrote:

I've loved astronomy from childhood. Built my own 6" reflector in 1962
at age 12. Ultimately however, I became a clergyman -- still heavenly
minded ;-) -- but continued an avid interest in astronomy. I read
voraciously now that I am on full disability, especially in the
interplay between science and religion. Just finished reading "Where
Is Everybody" by Stephen Webb and "Rare Earth" by Peter Ward / Donald
Brownlee, both in almost one sitting. John Polkinghorne
(http://www.polkinghorne.org/ is my hero. I'll check out Green's
books, but more academics is not my cup of tea right now - I'm
terminally ill (aren't we all?) so I surf the web and watch the
science channel to keep me informed. Thanks for your personal touch.

Best regards,

Joe

No problem Joe. Its an absolute pleasure to talk civilly with like
minded people, and you will be in my prayers (for what they are worth).
I'm a mature student doing his Astophysics Masters in my 30's, going
back to what I love most - learning.

However, back to astronomy ;-)

Brian Greene's books are very light on the math, and he makes a point
of warning you when sections need it - and then provides a precis of it
so you can skip it and still understand what is going on. Well worth
it.
Also you can watch the PBS televised series for the book "Elegant
Universe" at PBS - http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/

You can watch it on line - its wonderfully light yet full of wonder,
reminding me of when I watched Cosmos as a young kid when it first come
out. I saw the world in a new way after that.

As an agnostic/theist (as in I believe in some greater presence, just
no organised religion holds sway over me yet) I find cosmology
fascinating. A very dear friend of mine, an astronomy professor, passed
on several years ago and he always joked that all he wanted from heaven
was a blackboard, and the chance to ask God a few questions about some
equations.... Sounds good to me, I don't presume to know the mind of
God, but I'd love to see some of his rough workings out ;-)

--
The greatest enemy of science is pseudoscience.

Jaffa cakes. Sweet delicious orangey jaffa goodness, and an abject lesson why
parroting information from the web will not teach you cosmology.

Official emperor of sci.physics. Please pay no attention to my butt poking
forward, it is expanding.

Relf's Law?
"Bull**** repeated to the limit of infinity asymptotically approaches
the odour of roses."

46erjoe wrote:
Is it possible that all that elusive dark matter is just ordinary
matter not being illuminated? From the many planetary systems that
have formed in the galaxies, surely a large portion of the matter has
been lost into the interstellar spaces by slingshot effects of the
larger planets that stayed secure in the system. Could there be
billions of small black holes lurking in the darkness? Could our
galaxy be filled with more rogue planets and planetessimals than ones
attached by gravity to stars?


Sure it could. But it's not as fun for the theoretical astrophysicists
to talk about as exotic particles of some kind. Doesn't sell as many
books.


Related question: Supposedly when a Mars sized object struck earth and
ultimately caused our moon to be formed, it also tilted our planet on
its axis. What tilted the other planets on their axes? Mars is tilted
nearly as much as ours, I think. And how the heck did Nepture get
flipped almost 90 degrees to the plane of the ecliptic?


I think you mean Uranus.

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/factsheet/

That's a good question.

Double-A

In article .com,
Double-A wrote:



Sure it could. But it's not as fun for the theoretical astrophysicists
to talk about as exotic particles of some kind. Doesn't sell as many
books.


There's issues with galactic rotation curves that cannot be explained
easily by existing mass. Its not quite just for the books ...

--
The greatest enemy of science is pseudoscience.

Jaffa cakes. Sweet delicious orangey jaffa goodness, and an abject lesson why
parroting information from the web will not teach you cosmology.

Official emperor of sci.physics. Please pay no attention to my butt poking
forward, it is expanding.

Relf's Law?
"Bull**** repeated to the limit of infinity asymptotically approaches
the odour of roses."

On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:45:39 +0100, Phineas T Puddleduck
wrotF:

In article , 46erjoe
wrote:



I watched the program and was impressed by how effective the producers
were in bringing difficult concepts to the level of the average
person. But I was not impressed by the concepts themselves. String
theory has the smell of desperation about it. And, as the program
itself notes, unless it is provable, it must remain philosophy rather
than science.

The books do a lot better job of explaining some of your questions Joe.

Okay, so the strings are vibrating "strings" of energy. If true this
may explain how certain kinds of matter-events can exist-occur, but it
says nothing about what strings precisely are. What KIND of "energy"?
How is that energy propagated? What keeps it intact within the string?
What are the forces that make it be one kind of particle as opposed to
another.

Just pure energy, as I see it Joe. I like string theory for one reason
- there is an elegance to it. The booxs explain that a lot better, but
the theory (after you strip away some of the math) have a nice elegant
symmetry to them.


It just seems that no matter what theory is proposed, we are
continually driven back to something that precedes it, ad infinitum.
Eg, gravity. Okay, gravity is not a force, rather a warp in
space-time. Again, what is this "warp" how is it propogated, how
exactly does mass affect this warp, etc etc.

The beauty of Science Joe - always one more question. Keeps us on our
toes ;-)

"Elegant symmetry" sounds more artsy than science unless by elegant is
meant mathematically non-anomalous in which case quantum physics is
anything but symmetric.

Okay. I'm finished yapping about things I know little about. Time to
read some of Green's books.

fake Double-Anus wrote:
46erjoe wrote:
Is it possible that all that elusive dark matter is just ordinary
matter not being illuminated? From the many planetary systems that
have formed in the galaxies, surely a large portion of the matter has
been lost into the interstellar spaces by slingshot effects of the
larger planets that stayed secure in the system. Could there be
billions of small black holes lurking in the darkness? Could our
galaxy be filled with more rogue planets and planetessimals than ones
attached by gravity to stars?


Sure it could. But it's not as fun for the theoretical astrophysicists
to talk about as exotic particles of some kind. Doesn't sell as many
books.


Related question: Supposedly when a Mars sized object struck earth and
ultimately caused our moon to be formed, it also tilted our planet on
its axis. What tilted the other planets on their axes? Mars is tilted
nearly as much as ours, I think. And how the heck did Nepture get
flipped almost 90 degrees to the plane of the ecliptic?


I think you mean Uranus.

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/factsheet/

That's a good question.

Double-Anus

Quack!

On 20 Jun 2006 22:24:11 -0700, "Michael Baldwin, Bruce"
wrote:

fake Double-Anus wrote:
46erjoe wrote:
Is it possible that all that elusive dark matter is just ordinary
matter not being illuminated? From the many planetary systems that
have formed in the galaxies, surely a large portion of the matter has
been lost into the interstellar spaces by slingshot effects of the
larger planets that stayed secure in the system. Could there be
billions of small black holes lurking in the darkness? Could our
galaxy be filled with more rogue planets and planetessimals than ones
attached by gravity to stars?


Sure it could. But it's not as fun for the theoretical astrophysicists
to talk about as exotic particles of some kind. Doesn't sell as many
books.


Related question: Supposedly when a Mars sized object struck earth and
ultimately caused our moon to be formed, it also tilted our planet on
its axis. What tilted the other planets on their axes? Mars is tilted
nearly as much as ours, I think. And how the heck did Nepture get
flipped almost 90 degrees to the plane of the ecliptic?


I think you mean Uranus.

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/factsheet/

That's a good question.

Double-Anus

Quack!

That's like water off a duck's ass, Bruce.