Shapiro effect

On Dec 15, 9:22*am, waitedavidmsphysics
wrote:
On Dec 15, 1:40*am, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:





On Dec 13, 8:59 pm, waitedavidmsphysics
wrote:

Using E=mc^2, * *(we'll leave c=1, going forward)
and
using E=nhf, * * *where f=1/t then E=h(n/t) ,
(f=frequency, t=time, n=integer, h=Plancks).

Any time 't' may be chosen using 'n' to adjust for
any mass m.

Let Action A=hn *,

1- 2m/s = 1 - 2A/s^2 = g_00 , GR metric component.

Let s^2 = g^00 t^2 and hence ds^2 = g_00 dt^2
(treating A as a constant),
and thus,
t^2 = g_00 s^2 , g_00 ~ 1/g^00.

*From above, g_00 s^2 = s^2 - 2A = t^2, and

s ~ (1 + A) t.

That is introductory, meant to suggest Action 'A'
can be seen to clearly affect signal time 's'.

Merges nicely with quantum type gravity thinking.
Regards
Ken S. Tucker

I did the full derivation including the full path along the geodesic.
Shapiro roound trip time of flight is greater than
2(a+b)/c
Newtons gravitation round trip time of flight for particles thrown
from the earth at an initial speed c obeys *approximately*
2{[sqrt(a^2-rmin^2)/c] + [sqrt(b^2-rmin^2)/c]} - delta
This is less than 2(a+b)/c
Shapiro predicts a late time of signal return. Newton predicts early.
General relativity was right. Newtonian gravity was wrong. Same with
deflection of light. Newton gravity only gets have the answer on that
one though at least it gets the sign right in that case. Same with
eliptical orbits. Newtonian gravity fails to get the procession. These
kinds of evidence is why general relativity is accepted over Newtonian
gravity regardless of the strange predictions such as black holes.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

have the answer - half the answer

"thrown from eaaarth at speed c" is a nonsequiter,
like Einstein said, would require infinite energy,
due to internal (angular) momenta of atoms,
which Koobee-doo refuses to answer.

but, he may be correct about Alice and Bob Lorentz,
the fraternal twins, viz Doppler shifts.

however, Hubble did not believe that the Doppler shifts
to the red of supragalactic objects, necessarily were --
I mean, that they *were* Doppler shifts;
that is just the "farrest out" interpretation.

there is no absolute vacuum, period,
no matter what Einstein thought about it.

thus:
why don't climatologists include the "angle
of total reflection off of water,"
for when the ice melts, at noon on the summer solistice?

On Dec 15, 8:55 am, waitedavidmsphysics
wrote:
On Dec 15, 9:22 am, waitedavidmsphysics
wrote:



On Dec 15, 1:40 am, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:

On Dec 13, 8:59 pm, waitedavidmsphysics
wrote:

Using E=mc^2, (we'll leave c=1, going forward)
and
using E=nhf, where f=1/t then E=h(n/t) ,
(f=frequency, t=time, n=integer, h=Plancks).

Any time 't' may be chosen using 'n' to adjust for
any mass m.

Let Action A=hn ,

1- 2m/s = 1 - 2A/s^2 = g_00 , GR metric component.

Let s^2 = g^00 t^2 and hence ds^2 = g_00 dt^2
(treating A as a constant),
and thus,
t^2 = g_00 s^2 , g_00 ~ 1/g^00.

From above, g_00 s^2 = s^2 - 2A = t^2, and

s ~ (1 + A) t.

That is introductory, meant to suggest Action 'A'
can be seen to clearly affect signal time 's'.

Merges nicely with quantum type gravity thinking.
Regards
Ken S. Tucker

I did the full derivation including the full path along the geodesic.
Shapiro roound trip time of flight is greater than
2(a+b)/c
Newtons gravitation round trip time of flight for particles thrown
from the earth at an initial speed c obeys *approximately*
2{[sqrt(a^2-rmin^2)/c] + [sqrt(b^2-rmin^2)/c]} - delta
This is less than 2(a+b)/c
Shapiro predicts a late time of signal return. Newton predicts early.
General relativity was right. Newtonian gravity was wrong. Same with
deflection of light. Newton gravity only gets have the answer on that
one though at least it gets the sign right in that case. Same with
eliptical orbits. Newtonian gravity fails to get the procession. These
kinds of evidence is why general relativity is accepted over Newtonian
gravity regardless of the strange predictions such as black holes.

I agree. My suggestion was considering Action as in

s^2 = t^2 + 2A yields , s ds = t dt , dt/ds = s/t
(A=constant)
to assist the mathematics of integration and differentation
moving between ds,dt ,s ,t .

have the answer - half the answer

Yes, we need Space & Time, the Space adds more signal time,

s(t,x) ~ t (1 + 2A) .

I used,

s(x) ~ t (1 + A)

to get the other "half".

The 2-way delay amounts to 4At

Regards
Ken S. Tucker

On Dec 15, 2:50*pm, 1treePetrifiedForestLane
wrote:
...like Einstein said, would require infinite energy,...

Read it again you didn't get what I said.
1. I was talking about light photons which do not require infinite
energy to travel at the speed of light.
2. I was talking about the Newtonian gravitation prediction NOT the
relativistic physics prediction in that line.

On 12/15/11 10:52 PM, waitedavidmsphysics wrote:
I was talking about light photons which do not require infinite
energy to travel at the speed of light...

All photons are massless only propagating at c.

From the quantum mechanical perspective, all photons travel at c.

1. photons are emitted (by charged particles)
2. photons propagate at c
3. photons are absorbed (by charged particles)


Photon momentum
p = hν/c = h/λ

Photon Energy
E = hν

On Dec 15, 10:02Â*pm, Sam Wormley wrote:
On 12/15/11 10:52 PM, waitedavidmsphysics wrote:

I was talking about light photons which do not require infinite
energy to travel at the speed of light...

Â* Â*All photons are massless only propagating at c.

Â* Â*From the quantum mechanical perspective, all photons travel at c.

Â* Â* Â*1. photons are emitted (by charged particles)
Â* Â* Â*2. photons propagate at c
Â* Â* Â*3. photons are absorbed (by charged particles)

Â* Â*Photon momentum
Â* Â* Â* Â*p = hν/c = h/λ

Â* Â*Photon Energy
Â* Â* Â* Â*E = hν

Your response isn't relevant.

For those interested in the Newtonian gravitation prediction. I've
added equations
10.4.40 - 10.4.41
summarizing the Newtonian prediction derivation.

On Dec 15, 9:02Â*pm, Sam Wormley wrote:
On 12/15/11 10:52 PM, waitedavidmsphysics wrote:

I was talking about light photons which do not require infinite
energy to travel at the speed of light...

Â* Â*All photons are massless only propagating at c.

Â* Â*From the quantum mechanical perspective, all photons travel at c.

Â* Â* Â*1. photons are emitted (by charged particles)
Â* Â* Â*2. photons propagate at c
Â* Â* Â*3. photons are absorbed (by charged particles)

Â* Â*Photon momentum
Â* Â* Â* Â*p = hν/c = h/λ

Â* Â*Photon Energy
Â* Â* Â* Â*E = hν

Slow light is real from slow gravity time. It is a slow C in entering
a slow time.

Mitchell Raemsch; the prize