Telescope for deepsky!

On Tue, 16 Jun 2015 06:34:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote
this crap:

On Sunday, June 14, 2015 at 8:42:39 PM UTC-4, LdB wrote:

Some days I prefer sailing, some day it's the motor boat.

Sailing is a real man's sport.

Your motor boat is equipped with a trolling motor, no doubt.

So? My sailboat is equipped with a motor.

Sailing is for traditionalists; it was developed thousands of years ago,
long before the first motor boats.

Had to.

The motor boat can go much faster,

Some do. The average power boat can do only 20mph.

doesn't depend on the wind, and is relatively simple to operate.
So there should be absolutely no reason for you to use a sailboat, LsD.
A sailboat should be, according to your beliefs,
"as useless as those ancient eyepieces traditionalists try to see through,"

correct?

Sailing is a man's sport. Man against nature. The vehicle is powered
only by the breath of the gods. A sailor can go on for days and cross
oceans, (as long as they have beer.) Sailors explored the planet and
brought trade to all corners of the world. Sailors built empires and
expanded all knowledge of the planet.



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On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 6:48:52 PM UTC-4, Lord Vath wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jun 2015 06:34:19 -0700 (PDT), wsnell01 wrote
this crap:

On Sunday, June 14, 2015 at 8:42:39 PM UTC-4, LdB wrote:

Some days I prefer sailing, some day it's the motor boat.

Sailing is a real man's sport.

Your motor boat is equipped with a trolling motor, no doubt.

So? My sailboat is equipped with a motor.

Sailing is for traditionalists; it was developed thousands of years ago,
long before the first motor boats.

Had to.

The motor boat can go much faster,

Some do. The average power boat can do only 20mph.

Most sailboats can't go that fast.

doesn't depend on the wind, and is relatively simple to operate.
So there should be absolutely no reason for you to use a sailboat, LsD.
A sailboat should be, according to your beliefs,
"as useless as those ancient eyepieces traditionalists try to see through,"

correct?

Sailing is a man's sport. Man against nature. The vehicle is powered
only by the breath of the gods. A sailor can go on for days and cross
oceans, (as long as they have beer.) Sailors explored the planet and
brought trade to all corners of the world. Sailors built empires and
expanded all knowledge of the planet.

Vessels with engines are much faster than sailboats and sailing ships, AEBE.. Clipper ships could make 15 knots IF the wind was favorable but in practice they had much lower average speeds and couldn't carry much cargo. Most sailing ships were much less than 10 knots, as are many modern sailboats.

Meanwhile, its no big deal for pontoon boats to go 20+, and ski boats 30+. A skiff with a reasonably powerful outboard should be easier to handle than a similar-sized sailboat and usually faster too.

On the larger end of things, container ships easily do 20+.

I'm not knocking sailboats, just showing LsD's inconsistency of thought.

On Tue, 16 Jun 2015 18:29:08 -0700 (PDT), wrote
this crap:

On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 6:48:52 PM UTC-4, Lord Vath wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jun 2015 06:34:19 -0700 (PDT), wsnell01 wrote
this crap:

On Sunday, June 14, 2015 at 8:42:39 PM UTC-4, LdB wrote:

Some days I prefer sailing, some day it's the motor boat.

Sailing is a real man's sport.

Your motor boat is equipped with a trolling motor, no doubt.

So? My sailboat is equipped with a motor.

Sailing is for traditionalists; it was developed thousands of years ago,
long before the first motor boats.

Had to.

The motor boat can go much faster,

Some do. The average power boat can do only 20mph.

Most sailboats can't go that fast.

I didn't say that most could.

But we don't have to stop for gas.

doesn't depend on the wind, and is relatively simple to operate.
So there should be absolutely no reason for you to use a sailboat, LsD.
A sailboat should be, according to your beliefs,
"as useless as those ancient eyepieces traditionalists try to see through,"

correct?

Sailing is a man's sport. Man against nature. The vehicle is powered
only by the breath of the gods. A sailor can go on for days and cross
oceans, (as long as they have beer.) Sailors explored the planet and
brought trade to all corners of the world. Sailors built empires and
expanded all knowledge of the planet.

Vessels with engines are much faster than sailboats and sailing

And vessels with engines leave a much bigger carbon footprint.

ships, AEBE. Clipper ships could make 15 knots IF the wind
was favorable but in practice they had much lower average
speeds and couldn't carry much cargo. Most sailing ships were
much less than 10 knots, as are many modern sailboats.

Very true. The fastest sailboats I've been on usually only did a
steady 7.5 kts.

But we don't have to stop and refuel.

Meanwhile, its no big deal for pontoon boats to go 20+,

I've never seen one go that fast.

and ski boats 30+.

I don't consider jet skis to be boats. They are, "personal
watercraft," or "sport craft."

A skiff with a reasonably powerful outboard should be easier
to handle than a similar-sized sailboat and usually faster too.

Real men have sailboats. An outboard just churns up the water and
makes noise.

On the larger end of things, container ships easily do 20+.

I'm not knocking sailboats, just showing LsD's inconsistency of thought.

You better not knock sailboats. I have a wall of trophys in my great
room.


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On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 10:26:45 PM UTC-4, Lord Vath wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jun 2015 18:29:08 -0700 (PDT), wsnell01 wrote

Vessels with engines are much faster than sailboats and sailing

And vessels with engines leave a much bigger carbon footprint.

Why should you care? Al doesn't:

http://pjmedia.com/blog/gore-hits-th...new-houseboat/

Very true. The fastest sailboats I've been on usually only did a
steady 7.5 kts.

But we don't have to stop and refuel.

Meanwhile, its no big deal for pontoon boats to go 20+,

I've never seen one go that fast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j136TTyG_E8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lSdl9ujVgo

However, after they add the mandatory bar, lounge chairs, DJ booth, dance floor and disco ball (hanging from the bimini) the top end drops considerably!

and ski boats 30+.

I don't consider jet skis to be boats. They are, "personal
watercraft," or "sport craft."

I wasn't talking about jet skis.

I'm not knocking sailboats, just showing LsD's inconsistency of thought.

You better not knock sailboats. I have a wall of trophys in my great
room.

LsD in the blue shirt at 0:33 :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKqfSKN1Xz4

On Wed, 17 Jun 2015 06:18:03 -0700 (PDT), wrote
this crap:

On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 10:26:45 PM UTC-4, Lord Vath wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jun 2015 18:29:08 -0700 (PDT), wsnell01 wrote

Vessels with engines are much faster than sailboats and sailing

And vessels with engines leave a much bigger carbon footprint.

Why should you care? Al doesn't:

Very true. The fastest sailboats I've been on usually only did a
steady 7.5 kts.

But we don't have to stop and refuel.

Meanwhile, its no big deal for pontoon boats to go 20+,

I've never seen one go that fast.

https://www.youtube.com/wTyG_E8

I still haven't seen one go that fast.


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On Wednesday, June 17, 2015 at 10:24:27 AM UTC-4, Lord Vath wrote:

wsnell01 wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j136TTyG_E8


I still haven't seen one go that fast.

Pontoon captains aren't usually looking to go 100 knots, they might be looking for a stable, comfortable "party boat," which is easy to operate, so that they can enjoy the party too. The passengers can even be shown how to operate the boat, within limits and restrictions, and the experience of the voyage tends to be the about the same for everyone.

That is rather analogous to a video-only astronomy outreach, in which even the kids can be shown which buttons to push on a goto-equipped, video-rigged telescope. Everyone can get "involved," just not involved very much.

A sailboat is different. It will usually involve some level of discomfort and uncertainty for the uninitiated passenger. It won't be a "push-button" experience for him. It is more analogous to a simple, basic telescope used visually, which requires some knowledge and interest on the part of the participant. For some number of people the sailboat will be much more fun, even if it isn't as fast and comfortable as a pontoon boat.

Boats are bigger than telescopes, in general, so they cost more but here is one way that someone of modest means can get into boating:

http://www.sailboatstogo.com/content...wer__Sailboats

[Lake not included ;-) ]

As a practical matter, more people can afford a small sailboat or a canoe than can afford a power boat, AEBE. The same applies to simple scope versus goto/video-equipped scope.

So, LsD is against your using a telescope visually, or even suggesting that others should. If you give reasons why you and others should do visual astronomy, he will eventually get around to calling you "poor" and insulting you in various ways. Yet he will do the more or less analogous activity of using a sailboat when the mood strikes him. Can you say "hypocrisy?"

On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 1:17:09 PM UTC-4, palsing wrote:
On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 6:34:21 AM UTC-7, wsne... wrote:
On Sunday, June 14, 2015 at 8:42:39 PM UTC-4, LdB wrote:

Some days I prefer sailing, some day it's the motor boat.

Your motor boat is equipped with a trolling motor, no doubt.

Sailing is for traditionalists; it was developed thousands of years ago, long before the first motor boats. The motor boat can go much faster, doesn't depend on the wind, and is relatively simple to operate.

So there should be absolutely no reason for you to use a sailboat, LsD.

A sailboat should be, according to your beliefs,

"as useless as those ancient eyepieces traditionalists try to see through,"

correct?

Funny that LdB can enjoy the multiple facets of boating but is unwavering in his belief that amateur astronomy has only one valid form of participation, that being his own preference.

Here's a hypothetical scenario to consider:

LsD is on vacation and while out walking one evening in a city park, he encounters a small crowd of people lining up to look through a telescope.

Unbeknownst to him, they are looking a just-discovered earth grazing comet, not quite bright enough to see without a scope or binos.

Which of the following will LsD do? (You can choose more than one) :

Ignore the situation, since there is no video monitor in evidence.

Ask what they are viewing.

Line up for a turn at the eyepiece.

Break in line, since he thinks he is a "VIP" and can't wait his turn.

Criticize the owner of the scope for making everyone look through an eyepiece.

Whip out his smart phone and start looking for a posted image rather than look through the eyepiece.

Make an @$$ of himself.

Hi Ellie,

A lot depends on where you live and what you want to do with it. Also budget plays a huge role. If you get a small cheap scope you will be disappointed,and it will sit in a closet. Usually when talking deep sky, your talking aperture. But if you have a laptop you can buy a small quality Refractor, stick it on a AVX mount, and use a video or USB camera to take near real time views of dso's and see detail you won't see in scopes 3x to 4x larger. You view it live on your monitor and can take snapshots to view later and share. It's pretty easy to do, and there are lots of choice for video camera's starting at $99.00 up to $1800.

You can get good images with the $99 camera, but a whole lot better in the $600 range like the USB Lodestar X2 and download the free Loadstar Live software.

For a scope, I would look at the Lunt's from 70mm to 102mm, very good value, great mechanics and finish. Remember the best scope is the one you will use the most for your given situation. Good luck and welcome to this wonderful hobby.

Richard Whalen

On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 08:08:25 -0700 (PDT), wrote
this crap:

I still haven't seen one go that fast.

Pontoon captains aren't usually looking to go 100 knots,
they might be looking for a stable, comfortable "party boat,"
which is easy to operate, so that they can enjoy the party too.

Pontoon boats do not operate on the open waters.

The passengers can even be shown how to operate the boat,
within limits and restrictions, and the experience of the
voyage tends to be the about the same for everyone.

A sailboat is different. It will usually involve some level
of discomfort and uncertainty for the uninitiated passenger.

Seriously. No. On a large yacht, like mine, the trip is pleasurable.
Especially without the noise or discomfort of a motor.

As a practical matter, more people can afford a small sailboat
or a canoe than can afford a power boat, AEBE.

True. My yacht club gives away sailboats to deserving kids. But my
yacht club is very exclusive and very very rich.
www.ncyc.net


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On Thursday, June 18, 2015 at 12:04:28 PM UTC-4, Richard Whalen wrote:
Hi Ellie,

A lot depends on where you live and what you want to do with it. Also budget plays a huge role. If you get a small cheap scope you will be disappointed... edit

I started with a cheap scope almost a half century ago. It launched my hobby.