Proven principle: "Rockets not carrying fuel" and the space tower.

On Feb 19, 5:30 am, tadchem wrote:
On Feb 18, 3:23 pm, Robert Clark wrote:



Newsgroups: sci.astro, sci.physics, sci.mech.fluids, sci.engr.mech,
sci.space.policy
From: "Robert Clark"
Date: 28 Mar 2005 12:52:00 -0800
Subject: "Rockets not carrying fuel" and the space tower.http://groups.google.com/group/sci.a...ead/ab0c8a5333...

I suggested in the posts on that thread of using pressurized fluid,
liquid or gas, supplied from the ground to provide propulsion to a
rocket and/or to support a tower to high altitude. The *principle*
behind this of using pressurized fluid supplied from the ground to
provide the thrust has now been demonstrated, if not to high altitude:

Fluid Motion: JetLev-Flyer H2O-Propelled Jet Pack
By Chuck Squatriglia
February 02, 2009 | 5:02:03 PMhttp://blog.wired.com/cars/2009/02/fluid-motion--.html

James Bond-style jetpack powered by high-pressure water invented.
A German entrepreneur, Hermann Ramke, has invented a James Bond-like
jetpack powered by high-pressure water, called the JetLev-Flyer.
Last Updated: 10:35AM GMT 17 Feb 2009http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/4640262/James...

The patent on the device is described he

Water-Jet Pack Patented: The Jet Ski of 2020?
By Rob Beschizza
August 27, 2007 | 7:40:28 PMhttp://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2007/08/water-jet-pack-.html

Hmmm, I wonder where they got the idea for this from ...

Bob Clark

You could also use it as a drought-buster. You would only need to get
up a few miles.
;-)

Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA

I like that idea. You could also use it fight forest fires. A big
problem though is that the entire horizontal distance, which could
range into many miles to reach a water source, would have to be a no
fly zone. But if I remember correctly for people who fly model rockets
for example you don't have to get special exemptions from the FAA as
long as your rockets don't travel over say a few hundred to a thousand
feet high. So perhaps we could keep the pipeline within that altitude
range.
You also have the problem I mentioned before of supporting the tube
horizontally. It's possible it could work to be supported in a
parabolic arc by the water flow itself. However, as you see in the
case of the "air dancers" high winds can sometimes blow it all the way
to the ground. We wouldn't want that. Possibly a jointed pipeline with
directional, internal nozzles at each joint would also work.
Another possibility is suggested by how bottle rockets actually work.
It's not just the water that supplies the thrust but also pressurized
air. Then we could use both pressurized water and air and have
external nozzles along its length to provide jet thrust to support the
weight and to counteract winds. Then we could use molecular sieves,
which can be tailored just to pass water or to pass only air, in front
of the nozzles so that only air exits out of these nozzles providing
the thrust along the horizontal length.
Instead of using molecular sieves, we might also just have the
pressurized air flowing in an outer layer within the pipeline to go to
the external nozzles, while the pressurized water only flows in an
inner tube.


Bob Clark

Clark, why don't you do some analysis before posting these physically
impossible ideas.

Just quoting sources doesn't prover your point
Also while you are at it, get a clue. Do a little research on
hydrostatic pressure

On Feb 18, 3:23*pm, Robert Clark wrote:
Newsgroups: sci.astro, sci.physics, sci.mech.fluids, sci.engr.mech,
sci.space.policy
From: "Robert Clark"
Date: 28 Mar 2005 12:52:00 -0800
Subject: "Rockets not carrying fuel" and the space tower.http://groups.google.com/group/sci.a...ead/ab0c8a5333...

*I suggested in the posts on that thread of using pressurized fluid,
liquid or gas, supplied from the ground to provide propulsion to a
rocket and/or to support a tower to high altitude. The *principle*
behind this of using pressurized fluid supplied from the ground to
provide the thrust has now been demonstrated, if not to high altitude:

Well, the basic principle behind that is so-old, that's why the
21st Century Technology
people even invented GPS Autonomous Vehilces, and Post Navy
Robotics,
Since it's a siphon, not propulsion of any type.





Fluid Motion: JetLev-Flyer H2O-Propelled Jet Pack
By Chuck Squatriglia
February 02, 2009 | 5:02:03 PMhttp://blog.wired.com/cars/2009/02/fluid-motion--.html

James Bond-style jetpack powered by high-pressure water invented.
A German entrepreneur, Hermann Ramke, has invented a James Bond-like
jetpack powered by high-pressure water, called the JetLev-Flyer.
Last Updated: 10:35AM GMT 17 Feb 2009http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/4640262/James...

*The patent on the device is described he

Water-Jet Pack Patented: The Jet Ski of 2020?
By Rob Beschizza
August 27, 2007 | 7:40:28 PMhttp://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2007/08/water-jet-pack-.html

* *Hmmm, I wonder where they got the idea for this from ...

* * * *Bob Clark

On Feb 23, 2:03*pm, wrote:
Clark, why don't you do some analysis before posting these physically
impossible ideas.

Just quoting sources doesn't prover your point
Also while you are at it, get a clue. *Do a little research on
hydrostatic pressure


Hydrogen storage in capillary arrays.
N.K. Zhevago and V.I. Glebova
Abstract
"We have developed the technology of hydrogen storage in capillary
arrays, and we present the corresponding theoretical background. The
technology can be effectively used for safe transportation and storage
of highly pressurized hydrogen in mobile systems, ranging from
domestic electronic devices to ground and sea vehicles."
Energy Conversion and Management, Volume 48, Issue 5, May 2007, Pages
1554-1559.
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.enconman.2006.11.017

A New Technology for Hydrogen Storage in Capillary Arrays.
Dan Eliezer, Martin Beckmann-Kluge, Merek Gebauer, Kai Holtappels.
Introduction
"The major obstacles of hydrogen use, in replacing fossil oil, in cars
and trucks is the volume and mass of the tank and safety issues of
transferring and releasing the hydrogen.
C.En Ltd. has developed an innovative technology based on capillary
arrays for a safe infusing, storage and controlled release of
hydrogen. The company’s technology enables the storage of a
significantly greater amount of hydrogen than other technologies. It
will allow cars – equipped with a 60-liter tank weighing no more that
50 kg – to travel more than 500 km - more than any
alternative technologies using hydrogen.
Experiments and testing of C.En’s patents-pending system for storage
in and release of hydrogen from capillary arrays is underway at BAM,
Germany’s highly-respected Federal Institute for Materials Research
and Testing."
http://www.cenh2go.com/PDF/CEnPoster_small.pdf


Sounds like an interesting idea right? Using hollow glass fibers for
hydrogen storage. Afterall, high strength glass fibers such as S-glass
are among the strongest of fibers:

Tensile strength.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensile_strength


From: "Robert Clark"
Date: 22 Apr 2005 12:27:13 -0700
Subject: High strength fibers for high pressure tubes.
Newsgroups: sci.astro, sci.physics, sci.materials, sci.engr.mech,
sci.energy
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.a...f6adecc2f96eda


Bob Clark

On Feb 27, 8:43*pm, Robert Clark wrote:
On Feb 23, 2:03*pm, wrote:

Clark, why don't you do some analysis before posting these physically
impossible ideas.

Just quoting sources doesn't prover your point
Also while you are at it, get a clue. *Do a little research on
hydrostatic pressure

Hydrogen storage in capillary arrays.
N.K. Zhevago and V.I. Glebova
Abstract
"We have developed the technology of hydrogen storage in capillary
arrays, and we present the corresponding theoretical background. The
technology can be effectively used for safe transportation and storage
of highly pressurized hydrogen in mobile systems, ranging from
domestic electronic devices to ground and sea vehicles."
Energy Conversion and Management, Volume 48, Issue 5, May 2007, Pages
1554-1559.http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.enconman.2006.11.017

A New Technology for Hydrogen Storage in Capillary Arrays.
Dan Eliezer, Martin Beckmann-Kluge, Merek Gebauer, Kai Holtappels.
Introduction
"The major obstacles of hydrogen use, in replacing fossil oil, in cars
and trucks is the volume and mass of the tank and safety issues of
transferring and releasing the hydrogen.
C.En Ltd. has developed an innovative technology based on capillary
arrays for a safe infusing, storage and controlled release of
hydrogen. The company’s technology enables the storage of a
significantly greater amount of hydrogen than other technologies. It
will allow cars – equipped with a 60-liter tank weighing no more that
50 kg – to travel more than 500 km - more than any
alternative technologies using hydrogen.
Experiments and testing of C.En’s patents-pending system for storage
in and release of hydrogen from capillary arrays is underway at BAM,
Germany’s highly-respected Federal Institute for Materials Research
and Testing."http://www.cenh2go.com/PDF/CEnPoster_small.pdf

*Sounds like an interesting idea right? Using hollow glass fibers for
hydrogen storage. Afterall, high strength glass fibers such as S-glass
are among the strongest of fibers:

Tensile strength.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensile_strength

From: "Robert Clark"
Date: 22 Apr 2005 12:27:13 -0700
Subject: High strength fibers for high pressure tubes.
Newsgroups: sci.astro, sci.physics, sci.materials, sci.engr.mech,
sci.energyhttp://groups.google.com/group/sci.astro/msg/b0f6adecc2f96eda

* * Bob Clark

Why not hollow diamond fibers?

~ BG

On Feb 21, 10:35*am, Robert Clark wrote:
On Feb 19, 5:30 am, tadchem wrote:

You could also use it as a drought-buster. *You would only need to get
up a few miles.
;-)

Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA

*I like that idea. You could also use it fight forest fires. A big
problem though is that the entire horizontal distance, which could
range into many miles to reach a water source, would have to be a no
fly zone. But if I remember correctly for people who fly modelrockets
for example you don't have to get special exemptions from the FAA as
long as yourrocketsdon't travel over say a few hundred to a thousand
feet high. So perhaps we could keep the pipeline within that altitude
range.
*You also have the problem I mentioned before of supporting the tube
horizontally. It's possible it could work to be supported in a
parabolic arc by the water flow itself. However, as you see in the
case of the "air dancers" high winds can sometimes blow it all the way
to the ground. We wouldn't want that. Possibly a jointed pipeline with
directional, internal nozzles at each joint would also work.
*Another possibility is suggested by how bottlerocketsactually work.
It'snotjust the water that supplies the thrust but also pressurized
air. Then we could use both pressurized water and air and have
external nozzles along its length to provide jet thrust to support the
weight and to counteract winds. Then we could use molecular sieves,
which can be tailored just to pass water or to pass only air, in front
of the nozzles so that only air exits out of these nozzles providing
the thrust along the horizontal length.
*Instead of using molecular sieves, we might also just have the
pressurized air flowing in an outer layer within the pipeline to go to
the external nozzles, while the pressurized water only flows in an
inner tube.

* Bob Clark

If this is feasible we might use it also to limit the destructiveness
of hurricanes. A single hurricane can cause thousands of deaths and
billions of dollars in damage. Interestingly it is known that a
reduction of only 5 degrees Fahrenheit in the ocean surface
temperature can cause a hurricane to dissipate. Because of that I
suggested putting cooling chemicals or ice in the path of a hurricane
to reduce its strength:

Newsgroups: sci.physics, sci.chem, sci.geo.meteorology
From:
Date: 24 Sep 2005 16:51:45 -0700
Subject: Could we use endothermic(heat absorbing) reactions to reduce
hurricane strength?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.c...9438e843bae884

The problem would be getting the required massive amounts to the area
in time. The raised pipeline might provide a means to accomplish this.
There are pumps that can put out hundreds of cubic meters or hundreds
of metric tons of water a second:

Parched Saurashtra now has ‘world’s largest’ pump.
Posted: Mar 22, 2007 at 0054 hrs IST
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/pa...st-pump/26316/

If you pumped the water mixed with the right freezing point lowering
salt, the water could be kept liquid at temperatures of dozens of
degrees below freezing and you might only need in the range of tens of
thousands of metric tons to accomplish the temperature drop, which
could be pumped with these largest pumps in a matter of minutes.

Bob Clark

Robert Clark wrote:

If this is feasible we might use it also to limit the destructiveness
of hurricanes. A single hurricane can cause thousands of deaths and
billions of dollars in damage. Interestingly it is known that a
reduction of only 5 degrees Fahrenheit in the ocean surface
temperature can cause a hurricane to dissipate. Because of that I
suggested putting cooling chemicals or ice in the path of a hurricane
to reduce its strength:

Newsgroups: sci.physics, sci.chem, sci.geo.meteorology
From:
Date: 24 Sep 2005 16:51:45 -0700
Subject: Could we use endothermic(heat absorbing) reactions to reduce
hurricane strength?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.c...9438e843bae884

The problem would be getting the required massive amounts to the area
in time. The raised pipeline might provide a means to accomplish this.
There are pumps that can put out hundreds of cubic meters or hundreds
of metric tons of water a second:

Parched Saurashtra now has ‘world’s largest’ pump.
Posted: Mar 22, 2007 at 0054 hrs IST

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/pa...st-pump/26316/

If you pumped the water mixed with the right freezing point lowering
salt, the water could be kept liquid at temperatures of dozens of
degrees below freezing and you might only need in the range of tens of
thousands of metric tons to accomplish the temperature drop, which
could be pumped with these largest pumps in a matter of minutes.

Cooling the water to be pumped, as well generating the energy
required to pump it, would probably generate its own storm
system. Where are you going to dump all that heat?