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  #1  
Old October 17th 03, 11:25 AM
Dr. O
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Default Chinese space station

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches...ns_031016.html

The Chinese have announced they will soon launch a space-lab and after that
a space station. I'm baffled what could be gained from this? There's hardly
any usefull science that can be done in space (except the eternal experiment
what happens to humans and all of God's creatures under zero grav
circumstances) that can't be done here on Earth.

Why aren't the Chinese smart and wise and planning to send a manned capsule
around the moon? That would be a *huge* PR stunt.


  #2  
Old October 17th 03, 04:17 PM
Hop David
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Default Chinese space station



Dr. O wrote:
http://www.space.com/missionlaunches...ns_031016.html

The Chinese have announced they will soon launch a space-lab and after that
a space station. I'm baffled what could be gained from this? There's hardly
any usefull science that can be done in space (except the eternal experiment
what happens to humans and all of God's creatures under zero grav
circumstances) that can't be done here on Earth.

Why aren't the Chinese smart and wise and planning to send a manned capsule
around the moon? That would be a *huge* PR stunt.



I believe earlier it was hoped space stations would be "base camps" to
the solar system. True, it takes more delta-V to stop at a space station
and then proceed outward. But rockets are subjected to great stress and
vibration as they climb out of earth's gravity well through a dense
atmosphere. A space station could be a good place to check and repair a
craft before it goes on. It could also be a good place to launch low
thrust ion engines that can't be launched from the earth's surface.

Maybe earth orbiting space stations could play a role in a program
shooting for the moon and planets.

--
Hop David
http://clowder.net/hop/index.html

  #3  
Old October 17th 03, 06:14 PM
Joe Strout
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Default Chinese space station

In article ,
"Dr. O" dr.o@xxxxx wrote:

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches...ns_031016.html

The Chinese have announced they will soon launch a space-lab and after that
a space station. I'm baffled what could be gained from this? There's hardly
any usefull science that can be done in space (except the eternal experiment
what happens to humans and all of God's creatures under zero grav
circumstances) that can't be done here on Earth.


Maybe they're not interested in doing science on it. Maybe they realize
there is a lot more that could be done in space than science. Maybe,
unlike most of the U.S. authorities, they actually have a clue why space
is important and how to develop it.

Why aren't the Chinese smart and wise and planning to send a manned capsule
around the moon? That would be a *huge* PR stunt.


How is performing a PR stunt smart and wise?

,------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Joseph J. Strout Check out the Mac Web Directory: |
| http://www.macwebdir.com |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'
  #4  
Old October 17th 03, 09:05 PM
Dr. O
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Default Chinese space station


"Joe Strout" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Dr. O" dr.o@xxxxx wrote:

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches...ns_031016.html

The Chinese have announced they will soon launch a space-lab and after

that
a space station. I'm baffled what could be gained from this? There's

hardly
any usefull science that can be done in space (except the eternal

experiment
what happens to humans and all of God's creatures under zero grav
circumstances) that can't be done here on Earth.


Maybe they're not interested in doing science on it. Maybe they realize
there is a lot more that could be done in space than science. Maybe,
unlike most of the U.S. authorities, they actually have a clue why space
is important and how to develop it.

Why aren't the Chinese smart and wise and planning to send a manned

capsule
around the moon? That would be a *huge* PR stunt.


How is performing a PR stunt smart and wise?


It wil put them (at least on paper) ahead of both the EU and Russia. I'm
already convinced that the Shenzhou launch will help their commercial
satellite business enormously, there's already talk that the U.S. satellite
manfucturers are petitioning Congress to allow them to launch on Chinese
launchers. That could spell trouble for the U.S. and European launch
businesses.






  #5  
Old October 17th 03, 10:40 PM
Joe Strout
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Posts: n/a
Default Chinese space station

In article ,
"Dr. O" dr.o@xxxxx wrote:

Why aren't the Chinese smart and wise and planning to send a manned

capsule
around the moon? That would be a *huge* PR stunt.


How is performing a PR stunt smart and wise?


It wil put them (at least on paper) ahead of both the EU and Russia.


You believe that China is engaging in some sort of show-off game? What
would the winner of this game win?

I'm already convinced that the Shenzhou launch will help their commercial
satellite business enormously, there's already talk that the U.S. satellite
manfucturers are petitioning Congress to allow them to launch on Chinese
launchers.


Well, yes, having a man-rated launcher does suggest a good launch
capability. But by putting this in the same paragraph with your answer
to the above, you seem to be suggesting that a manned lunar flyby would
somehow help the satellite business. That would make sense if there
were customers interested in flying their satellites around the Moon.
Not unheard of, but not much of a market either.

Also, I find it hard to believe that a manned lunar flyby (an enormously
expensive project) would pay for itself as a marketing gimmick.

,------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Joseph J. Strout Check out the Mac Web Directory: |
| http://www.macwebdir.com |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'
  #6  
Old October 17th 03, 11:01 PM
Dr. O
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Posts: n/a
Default Chinese space station


"Joe Strout" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Dr. O" dr.o@xxxxx wrote:

Why aren't the Chinese smart and wise and planning to send a manned

capsule
around the moon? That would be a *huge* PR stunt.

How is performing a PR stunt smart and wise?


It wil put them (at least on paper) ahead of both the EU and Russia.


You believe that China is engaging in some sort of show-off game? What
would the winner of this game win?


Survival of their race.


I'm already convinced that the Shenzhou launch will help their

commercial
satellite business enormously, there's already talk that the U.S.

satellite
manfucturers are petitioning Congress to allow them to launch on Chinese
launchers.


Well, yes, having a man-rated launcher does suggest a good launch
capability. But by putting this in the same paragraph with your answer
to the above, you seem to be suggesting that a manned lunar flyby would
somehow help the satellite business. That would make sense if there
were customers interested in flying their satellites around the Moon.
Not unheard of, but not much of a market either.


I'm not implying that (or at least I didn't intend to) a lunar flyby will
help their commercial launching business, but a man-rated program will. OTOH
nobody knows how the Chinese man-rated their vehicle in the first place. It
may well be that hardly any changes were made and that they just relied on
better inspections.


Also, I find it hard to believe that a manned lunar flyby (an enormously
expensive project) would pay for itself as a marketing gimmick.


The Chinese have revealed that they spend about $2billion on their entire
manned-space project (encompassing over ten years). That's dirt cheap
compared to the U.S. or Europe and even much cheaper than Russia. That puts
a lunar flyby within financial reach, certainly within a decade, probably
far less. Someone already pointed out the the Long March 3 can lift big
enough payloads to perform a lunar flyby (although they would have to
man-rate the thing). In short, they can do it with minimal financial impact.

















  #7  
Old October 18th 03, 01:47 AM
Derek Lyons
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Posts: n/a
Default Chinese space station

Joe Strout wrote:

In article ,
"Dr. O" dr.o@xxxxx wrote:

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches...ns_031016.html

The Chinese have announced they will soon launch a space-lab and after that
a space station. I'm baffled what could be gained from this? There's hardly
any usefull science that can be done in space (except the eternal experiment
what happens to humans and all of God's creatures under zero grav
circumstances) that can't be done here on Earth.


Maybe they're not interested in doing science on it. Maybe they realize
there is a lot more that could be done in space than science.


Care to enumerate examples?

Maybe, unlike most of the U.S. authorities, they actually have a clue why space
is important and how to develop it.


Care to explain what makes it 'important'?

(In reality I doubt the Chinese are in space for any reasons different
than anyone else currently. National prestige along with a few
practical usages.)

D.
--
The STS-107 Columbia Loss FAQ can be found
at the following URLs:

Text-Only Version:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq.html

Enhanced HTML Version:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq_x.html

Corrections, comments, and additions should be
e-mailed to , as well as posted to
sci.space.history and sci.space.shuttle for
discussion.
  #8  
Old October 18th 03, 01:48 AM
Derek Lyons
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Posts: n/a
Default Chinese space station

"Dr. O" dr.o@xxxxx wrote:
http://www.space.com/missionlaunches...ns_031016.html

The Chinese have announced they will soon launch a space-lab and after that
a space station. I'm baffled what could be gained from this? There's hardly
any usefull science that can be done in space (except the eternal experiment
what happens to humans and all of God's creatures under zero grav
circumstances) that can't be done here on Earth.


Except of course for all the useful science that can be done in
space...

Why aren't the Chinese smart and wise and planning to send a manned capsule
around the moon? That would be a *huge* PR stunt.


And why should they engage in a PR stunt at all?

D.
--
The STS-107 Columbia Loss FAQ can be found
at the following URLs:

Text-Only Version:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq.html

Enhanced HTML Version:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq_x.html

Corrections, comments, and additions should be
e-mailed to , as well as posted to
sci.space.history and sci.space.shuttle for
discussion.
  #9  
Old October 18th 03, 02:44 AM
B. Isaksen
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Default Chinese space station

I'm not implying that (or at least I didn't intend to) a lunar flyby will
help their commercial launching business, but a man-rated program will. OTOH
nobody knows how the Chinese man-rated their vehicle in the first place. It
may well be that hardly any changes were made and that they just relied on
better inspections.


Just the USA has manrated a rocket by it selv, and its free for
everyone to see how well that went. The russians and the chinese has
rated a system also incorperating an escape system.

....
far less. Someone already pointed out the the Long March 3 can lift big
enough payloads to perform a lunar flyby (although they would have to
man-rate the thing). In short, they can do it with minimal financial impact.


Not that fast. It's fully possible to go for a LEO assembly where the
crew enters with a safer system. Not very unlike the russian approach
to space stations.

Sincerely
Bjørn Ove
  #10  
Old October 18th 03, 02:26 PM
Dave & Janelle
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Default Chinese space station


"Derek Lyons" wrote in message
...
"Dr. O" dr.o@xxxxx wrote:
http://www.space.com/missionlaunches...ns_031016.html

The Chinese have announced they will soon launch a space-lab and after

that
a space station. I'm baffled what could be gained from this? There's

hardly
any usefull science that can be done in space (except the eternal

experiment
what happens to humans and all of God's creatures under zero grav
circumstances) that can't be done here on Earth.


Except of course for all the useful science that can be done in
space...


MHO: The science currently done in space is a distraction. I think the real
trick is Space Engineering - generating artificial gravity, improving
(mostly) closed-loop systems, designing a vessel for human habitation,
growing food, etc. It's not new science, it is new applications of existing
science.

I hope the Chinese have the goals of exploration and discovery, and don't
get sidetracked into a dead-end space station.

---
Dave Boll
http://www.daveboll.com/


 




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