ASTRO: Abell 2197 and UGC 10704 reprocessed

I blew out UGC 10704 costing some detail. My not so great seeing cost
even more. I can't do much about that. See original post for details.
14" LX200R @ f/10, L=4x10' RGB=2x10'x3, STL-11000XM, Paramount ME

Rick
--
Correct domain name is arvig and it is net not com. Prefix is correct.
Third character is a zero rather than a capital "Oh".

First time I posted these they showed up with odd horizontal lines not
in the originals I posted. Second time as well. I don't know what is
going on. The JPGs are fine until posted. Weird.

Rick


On 8/27/2011 8:26 PM, Rick Johnson wrote:
I blew out UGC 10704 costing some detail. My not so great seeing cost
even more. I can't do much about that. See original post for details.
14" LX200R @ f/10, L=4x10' RGB=2x10'x3, STL-11000XM, Paramount ME

Rick


--
Correct domain name is arvig and it is net not com. Prefix is correct.
Third character is a zero rather than a capital "Oh".

I'm fighting a line problem. Each time I post an image it has
horizontal noise not in the image as posted.

Oddly, the annotated image had no lines but the non annotated image did.
Only difference was the labels and saving it at a lower compression
which should cause problems not fix them. I did a bit of smoothing of
the background, more than I'd like to use and am trying again. I also
rebooted the computer to see if that helps. Always something new to
deal with it seems.

Rick

On 8/27/2011 8:26 PM, Rick Johnson wrote:
I blew out UGC 10704 costing some detail. My not so great seeing cost
even more. I can't do much about that. See original post for details.
14" LX200R @ f/10, L=4x10' RGB=2x10'x3, STL-11000XM, Paramount ME

Rick


--
Correct domain name is arvig and it is net not com. Prefix is correct.
Third character is a zero rather than a capital "Oh".

Oddly the full image is still a mess of lines. Enlarged image is fine
now. It was saved at level 10 in PS while the line one was 9. Raising
it to 10. I look at it in three different viewers plus PS and no lines
in any of the failed images. Yet after posting I see lines. I'm about
to give up.

Rick

On 8/28/2011 2:52 AM, Rick Johnson wrote:
I'm fighting a line problem. Each time I post an image it has horizontal
noise not in the image as posted.

Oddly, the annotated image had no lines but the non annotated image did.
Only difference was the labels and saving it at a lower compression
which should cause problems not fix them. I did a bit of smoothing of
the background, more than I'd like to use and am trying again. I also
rebooted the computer to see if that helps. Always something new to deal
with it seems.

Rick

On 8/27/2011 8:26 PM, Rick Johnson wrote:
I blew out UGC 10704 costing some detail. My not so great seeing cost
even more. I can't do much about that. See original post for details.
14" LX200R @ f/10, L=4x10' RGB=2x10'x3, STL-11000XM, Paramount ME

Rick




--
Correct domain name is arvig and it is net not com. Prefix is correct.
Third character is a zero rather than a capital "Oh".

On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 02:20:29 -0500, Rick Johnson
wrote:

First time I posted these they showed up with odd horizontal lines not
in the originals I posted. Second time as well. I don't know what is
going on. The JPGs are fine until posted. Weird.

Rick



Something amiss with your news reader? All your posts and followups
show no lines here at all.

All your images look just fine to me.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

On 8/28/2011 2:25 PM, Skywise wrote:
All your images look just fine to me.

Brian

I don't know what is going on. I posted these to several forums and all
show this on several computers and monitors running different programs
and OS. Yet I don't see it on the originals. They are very faint and
unless you have your monitor set to go well into the dark region (needed
for the way I process my images) they might not be visible. When I
reduced the background noise (also takes out faint fine detail) the
lines went away. I needed to reduce the image compression level as well
which eliminated some compression artifacts the noise creates. Had to
try several times with the full image before that happened. Since this
happened with web postings as well as usenet and different programs were
used I doubt that's it.

Be sure you can see all levels of the attached gray scale strip,
especially at the bottom end. If you can't separate the bottom two
easily you won't see the lines. My backgrounds are usually set to about
a level of 8 to 10. The lines were about 12 so difference small but, to
me, very noticeable. Many set the black point of their monitors to
about 15 which reduces the dynamic range too much but gives good dark
blacks that looks nice but costs detail in shadows.

When you have to shoehorn the ~4000 levels originally recorded down to
only 256 for a monitor you want to use every level you can to preserve
as much as possible.

Rick

--
Correct domain name is arvig and it is net not com. Prefix is correct.
Third character is a zero rather than a capital "Oh".

I misidentified one of the images.

The top right corner image is UGC10407L4X10RGB2X10X3-CROP150.jpg.

And sorry if the multiplart causes any problems. My newsreader
maxes out at 15000 lines per post.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

On 8/30/2011 3:59 AM, Skywise wrote:
I misidentified one of the images.

The top right corner image is UGC10407L4X10RGB2X10X3-CROP150.jpg.

And sorry if the multiplart causes any problems. My newsreader
maxes out at 15000 lines per post.

Brian
Interesting. I put it on to Picasa and read it back with the same
lines. I put it a couple other places and again see lines. Tried IE
and Firefox, both see the lines yet obviously you don't. This is the
only image that does it. I can go back and read other images still on
the news server and they are fine. I cured them by further smoothing
the background. That would seem to indicate they were real. Enlarging
the image also helped get rid of them as the enlarged image needed far
less smoothing of the background. I even wondered if somehow my WiFi
was involved so connected directly, same result. Had another imager on
a different ISP look and he too saw the lines on the earlier versions.

Yet others have emailed me they don't.

So far it is a one time affair so unless it reappears, last posting was
fine of Sh2-54, I will assume it a one time mystery.

Rick

--
Correct domain name is arvig and it is net not com. Prefix is correct.
Third character is a zero rather than a capital "Oh".

Rick Johnson wrote in news:4e5e9b4d$0$2929$a8266bb1
@newsreader.readnews.com:

On 8/30/2011 3:59 AM, Skywise wrote:
I misidentified one of the images.

The top right corner image is UGC10407L4X10RGB2X10X3-CROP150.jpg.

And sorry if the multiplart causes any problems. My newsreader
maxes out at 15000 lines per post.

Brian
Interesting. I put it on to Picasa and read it back with the same
lines. I put it a couple other places and again see lines.

Can you provide links to those locations? Then I (and others?)
can tell you if we see anything.

Had another imager on
a different ISP look and he too saw the lines on the earlier versions.

What program are you using to create the final image? I'm wondering
if perhaps there's some problem in the JPG encoding for that image
that most viewer's software is able to get past, yet breaks in a few
viewer's whose software can't handle the error gracefully.

I'm no expert on image file formats, but for a personal programming
project I've been dabbling with the TIFF specification. I recall
references in the specs saying that the software needs to be able to
handle certain errors gracefully.

Perhaps the few of you who do see the lines are seeing an error in
the problem file's encoding not being handled gracefully by whatever
software you are using to view the image with.

Unfortunately, I have zero knowledge of the jpg specification,
although I may eventually as TIFF allows jpg compression, and is
included in an appendix. THat is, if I ever get finished with writing
that TIFF program.

OH... another thought just hit me. When you are viewing these images
and seeing the lines, are you viewing them at 100% scale? Not all
programs dither down the image when zoomed out. I've seen programs
that simply skip pixels/lines in order to shrink the viewed image
size, which then causes interesting artifacts such as moire and other
weirdness.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?