Did you know you can buy land on the moon?

Henry Spencer wrote:

In article ,
Scott Lowther wrote:
Name three countries where it's *legal*.

Sudan, China, North Korea.

Sudan I'm unsure of, but I think you'll find that neither China nor North
Korea permit slavery in the traditional sense of the term. Indefinite
conscription, yes.

As well as forced labor = slavery.


You're going to have to explain why 1945 was so magic.

Ask ther Israelies. They have good memories of such things.

I'd prefer to ask the Japanese-Americans (or Japanese-Canadians),
actually.

Who were never enslaved...


Wow, talk about a non-sequitur. Since when have rational people
considered temporary drafts in time of war to be the moral or technical
equivalent to slavery?

Ask any conscientious objector. Some of my own ancestors fled the US for
Canada, somewhat earlier, because the choices if they stayed looked to
them like slavery or death.

You can't have it both ways. If involuntary servitude to the government
is slavery when it happens in North Korea, it's the same when it happens
in the US.

Please. A draft in the US is NOT involuntary servitude to the
government.


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Scott Hedrick wrote:

"Brian Thorn" wrote in message
...
And when the US began the effort to eliminate slavery, Britain very
nearly came down in support of the side that was trying to continue
it.

Although Britain had eliminated it decades before.

In *Britain,* yes. But in all their holdings?

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Henry Spencer wrote:

Oh, that was pretty obvious, but it strikes me as a fallacious argument,
since slave labor for the government was common in all nations in that
war, and since. That's not usually deemed to be "slavery", since it lacks
some of the customary features of slavery and is usually dressed up in
patriotic rhetoric. ("Those Japanese-Americans just can't be trusted.")

Since when were the JapAms *enslaved*?

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"Scott Lowther" wrote in message
...
Scott Hedrick wrote:

"Brian Thorn" wrote in message
...
And when the US began the effort to eliminate slavery, Britain very
nearly came down in support of the side that was trying to continue
it.

Although Britain had eliminated it decades before.

In *Britain,* yes. But in all their holdings?

In time, and certainly by the US Civil War.
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Henry Spencer wrote:
It's not like slavery was something only the US thought of. They
were just a bit slower to get rid of it than most of the rest of
the world.

Depends on which parts of the rest of the world. Slavery was outlawed
in Brazil only in 1887. And in Saudi Arabia only in 1967 (!). And of
course it's still practiced in communist countries, unless you insist
that it isn't slavery if the government is the slavemaster.
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In article ,
Scott Lowther wrote:
...slave labor for the government was common in all nations in that
war, and since. That's not usually deemed to be "slavery", since it lacks
some of the customary features of slavery and is usually dressed up in
patriotic rhetoric. ("Those Japanese-Americans just can't be trusted.")

Since when were the JapAms *enslaved*?

Since when weren't they, if we're stipulating that forced servitude to the
government is slavery? They(*) were taken from their homes, most of their
property was effectively confiscated, they were hauled off to strange
places, they were confined in barely-livable conditions which they had no
freedom to leave, and pretty much the only work available to them was
manual labor for trivial wages. Oh, and at no time were they accused of
or convicted of any crime. Sounds pretty close to slavery to me. How,
exactly, would you say it differs? How, exactly, would *they* say it
differed?

(* One exception: the Japanese-Americans in Hawaii were largely left
alone, to avoid wrecking the islands' economy.)
--
MOST launched 30 June; first light, 29 July; 5arcsec | Henry Spencer
pointing, 10 Sept; first science, early Oct; all well. |

In article ,
Scott Lowther wrote:
You can't have it both ways. If involuntary servitude to the government
is slavery when it happens in North Korea, it's the same when it happens
in the US.

Please. A draft in the US is NOT involuntary servitude to the government.

How is it not? It's involuntary. It's servitude (Webster's New
Collegiate: "a condition in which one lacks liberty esp. to determine
one's course of action or way of life"). It's to the government.
--
MOST launched 30 June; first light, 29 July; 5arcsec | Henry Spencer
pointing, 10 Sept; first science, early Oct; all well. |

In article ,
Scott Lowther wrote:
There was very little European about the way the CSA worked, if you look
closely; the resemblance was superficial.

But still far closer to the Euros than the northern USA.

Much closer in substance to the northern USA, actually -- anathema though
the thought was to Southerners -- although some of the appearances were
closer to Europe.

...the two structures weren't at all similar. Notably, in
Europe, the nobility had ties to the peasants as well as vice-versa.

What, like the Czar and the serfs? Yeah, that was WAAAAAAAAY different
from the master and slave relationship in the CSA...

Actually, it was; read a bit more history, Scott. Even slavery -- and
yes, serfdom in Russia was pretty much slavery -- isn't as simple and
standardized and unidirectional a thing as you seem to think. Slavery in
the CSA was fairly extreme, not a typical example.

And the discussion was about Western Europe, specifically Britain, since
we were talking about why European nations considered intervening in the
war and why they didn't do it.
--
MOST launched 30 June; first light, 29 July; 5arcsec | Henry Spencer
pointing, 10 Sept; first science, early Oct; all well. |

From Scott Hedrick:
Having spent several years surrounded by reservations and working
side-by-side with *Indians*- the preferred name, by the way, as I was
informed by an Indian that, if I was born an American, I'm also a *native
American*- Stuffie's rant was nothing more than complete and absolute
horse**** promoted by Indian-wannabes and those who have decided to feel
guilty about something their ancestors did. Spend some time with real
Indians and listen to what they *really* say before posting, Stuffie. But
then, you won't be able to because you'd **** them off long before you'd
have the opportunity to learn anything.

The gist of my commentary about property on the Moon, as it relates to
the experiences of Natives in what is now the US can be encapsulated
in this poignant statement:

"My lands are where my dead lie buried."

(Ref. http://www.crazyhorse.org/)


....or perhaps the words from Michael Moore's parody cartoon, A BRIEF
HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, find more resonance:

[Narrator speaking about the Pilgrims meeting the Natives]

"You would think that wiping out an entire race of people would calm
em down."


Image:
http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowli...aredabyind.jpg

Full cartoon:
http://www.bowlingforcolumbine.com/m...lips/index.php


~ CT

Stuf4 wrote:

The gist of my commentary about property on the Moon, as it relates to
the experiences of Natives in what is now the US can be encapsulated
in this poignant statement:

"My lands are where my dead lie buried."

There are no dead on the moon.


...or perhaps the words from Michael Moore's parody cartoon, A BRIEF
HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, find more resonance:

[Narrator speaking about the Pilgrims meeting the Natives]

"You would think that wiping out an entire race of people would calm
em down."

Image:
http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowli...aredabyind.jpg

You don't bolster your case - or ANY case - by referencing the well
known liar Michael Moore. But at least the website you reference points
out that Moore is "#1 on the Joeseph Geobbells Best Propaganda List In
Its First 10 Minutes!"



--
Scott Lowther, Engineer
Remove the obvious (capitalized) anti-spam
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