Future of the RL60?

Is the RL60 a 'done deal' for some variants of the Delta 4 and Atlas
5? If so what effects will it have on payloads - presumably to GTO
but also on interplanetary trajectories?

Phil

(Phil Paisley) wrote in
om:

Is the RL60 a 'done deal' for some variants of the Delta 4 and Atlas
5? If so what effects will it have on payloads - presumably to GTO
but also on interplanetary trajectories?

The RL60 is in advanced development and should already have
undergone its first full-up test firing. Boeing will likely go
with its own MB-60.

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/...opul/mb60.html

The increased thrust and slightly improved Isp should help with
gravity losses on the existing underpowered upper stages. Mostly
it would avoid having to mount two RL10s to achieve similar
results. I have yet to find any figures on upper stage performance
with the new engines; Boeing plans to top off the Delta IV with
a Star-series solid motor third stage for planetary launches.
This would probably offer better performance than increasing
the second stage tankage for longer burns, since less mass is
involved. (I'd like to see their solar-thermal upper stage
developed for that purpose.)

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/...opul/ISUS.html

Pratt & Whitney is apparently retiring the RL10 and is offering a
Russian-built engine of similar design. There won't be that
much US-built content in the RL60 either. :/

http://www.pratt-whitney.com/prod_space_rd0146.asp

--Damon

(Phil Paisley) wrote in
om:

Is the RL60 a 'done deal' for some variants of the Delta 4 and Atlas
5? If so what effects will it have on payloads - presumably to GTO
but also on interplanetary trajectories?

The RL60 is in advanced development and should already have
undergone its first full-up test firing. Boeing will likely go
with its own MB-60.

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/...opul/mb60.html

The increased thrust and slightly improved Isp should help with
gravity losses on the existing underpowered upper stages. Mostly
it would avoid having to mount two RL10s to achieve similar
results. I have yet to find any figures on upper stage performance
with the new engines; Boeing plans to top off the Delta IV with
a Star-series solid motor third stage for planetary launches.
This would probably offer better performance than increasing
the second stage tankage for longer burns, since less mass is
involved. (I'd like to see their solar-thermal upper stage
developed for that purpose.)

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/...opul/ISUS.html

Pratt & Whitney is apparently retiring the RL10 and is offering a
Russian-built engine of similar design. There won't be that
much US-built content in the RL60 either. :/

http://www.pratt-whitney.com/prod_space_rd0146.asp

--Damon

Damon Hill wrote in message 32...

Pratt & Whitney is apparently retiring the RL10 and is offering a
Russian-built engine of similar design. There won't be that
much US-built content in the RL60 either. :/

http://www.pratt-whitney.com/prod_space_rd0146.asp


Pratt has retired the RL10A-3-3A, and will soon retire
the RL10 models used by Atlas II and III, but there's been
no word that the RL10 models used by Atlas V and Delta IV
are to be discontinued soon. I would expect these to
eventually be replaced by the RL-60 and MB-60, respectively,
which makes me wonder who will buy the 22,000 pound thrust
Russian engine.

As for RL-60, it is a bit of a shock to see that both
turbopumps, the regenerative nozzle, the fuel inlet,
and the main LOX valve come from non-U.S. companies.
That leaves, what, some pipes and engine controls to
be manufactured by Pratt & Whitney? Is that all that
U.S. aerospace industry is now capable of - unwraping
components and plugging them together?

- Ed Kyle

Damon Hill wrote in message 32...

Pratt & Whitney is apparently retiring the RL10 and is offering a
Russian-built engine of similar design. There won't be that
much US-built content in the RL60 either. :/

http://www.pratt-whitney.com/prod_space_rd0146.asp


Pratt has retired the RL10A-3-3A, and will soon retire
the RL10 models used by Atlas II and III, but there's been
no word that the RL10 models used by Atlas V and Delta IV
are to be discontinued soon. I would expect these to
eventually be replaced by the RL-60 and MB-60, respectively,
which makes me wonder who will buy the 22,000 pound thrust
Russian engine.

As for RL-60, it is a bit of a shock to see that both
turbopumps, the regenerative nozzle, the fuel inlet,
and the main LOX valve come from non-U.S. companies.
That leaves, what, some pipes and engine controls to
be manufactured by Pratt & Whitney? Is that all that
U.S. aerospace industry is now capable of - unwraping
components and plugging them together?

- Ed Kyle

(ed kyle) wrote in
om:


Pratt has retired the RL10A-3-3A, and will soon retire
the RL10 models used by Atlas II and III, but there's been
no word that the RL10 models used by Atlas V and Delta IV
are to be discontinued soon. I would expect these to
eventually be replaced by the RL-60 and MB-60, respectively,
which makes me wonder who will buy the 22,000 pound thrust
Russian engine.

That puzzles me too. I wonder if it's a serious offering?

As for RL-60, it is a bit of a shock to see that both
turbopumps, the regenerative nozzle, the fuel inlet,
and the main LOX valve come from non-U.S. companies.
That leaves, what, some pipes and engine controls to
be manufactured by Pratt & Whitney? Is that all that
U.S. aerospace industry is now capable of - unwraping
components and plugging them together?

Good question; international partnerships seem to be the
order of the day. Perhaps P&W put the parts up for bid?
I'm assuming P&W did most of the research, based on what
I've read.

--Damon

(ed kyle) wrote in
om:


Pratt has retired the RL10A-3-3A, and will soon retire
the RL10 models used by Atlas II and III, but there's been
no word that the RL10 models used by Atlas V and Delta IV
are to be discontinued soon. I would expect these to
eventually be replaced by the RL-60 and MB-60, respectively,
which makes me wonder who will buy the 22,000 pound thrust
Russian engine.

That puzzles me too. I wonder if it's a serious offering?

As for RL-60, it is a bit of a shock to see that both
turbopumps, the regenerative nozzle, the fuel inlet,
and the main LOX valve come from non-U.S. companies.
That leaves, what, some pipes and engine controls to
be manufactured by Pratt & Whitney? Is that all that
U.S. aerospace industry is now capable of - unwraping
components and plugging them together?

Good question; international partnerships seem to be the
order of the day. Perhaps P&W put the parts up for bid?
I'm assuming P&W did most of the research, based on what
I've read.

--Damon

Damon Hill wrote in message 32...
(Phil Paisley) wrote in
om:

Is the RL60 a 'done deal' for some variants of the Delta 4 and Atlas
5? If so what effects will it have on payloads - presumably to GTO
but also on interplanetary trajectories?

The RL60 is in advanced development and should already have
undergone its first full-up test firing.

The test were scheduled to sept, 2003, according to P&W latest press
release ( http://www.pw.utc.com/prod_space_rl60.asp)
Wonder how well it did, or are the tests still ongoing ?
What raised my interest, was the mention of expander cycle engines,
RL60 in particular, in the latest chapter of "the Rocket Company"
novel,
http://www.hobbyspace.com/AAdmin/arc...ap11page1.html

-kert

(Kaido Kert) wrote in
om:

Damon Hill wrote in message
32...
(Phil Paisley) wrote in
om:

Is the RL60 a 'done deal' for some variants of the Delta 4 and
Atlas 5? If so what effects will it have on payloads - presumably
to GTO but also on interplanetary trajectories?

The RL60 is in advanced development and should already have
undergone its first full-up test firing.

The test were scheduled to sept, 2003, according to P&W latest press
release ( http://www.pw.utc.com/prod_space_rl60.asp)
Wonder how well it did, or are the tests still ongoing ?

Haven't found a mention anywhere; I may have to email P&W and ask them
about the status.

What raised my interest, was the mention of expander cycle engines,
RL60 in particular, in the latest chapter of "the Rocket Company"
novel,
http://www.hobbyspace.com/AAdmin/arc...cketCom/chap11
page1.html

P&W thinks they can get the expander cycle up to 300klbs thrust, though
not quite in the way that the RL10 does. It's a way towards a less
expensive engine design by eliminating the hot gas generator and turbine
sections.

--Damon