The perpetual calendar

"Brian M. Scott" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:12:09 -0800 (PST), Andrew Usher
wrote in

in
sci.math,sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.lang,alt.usage. english:

[...]

And the first day of the week is Sunday, not Monday - that
is an incontrovertible fact.

Don't be ridiculous: it's merely a convention. For many of
us Monday is unquestionably the first day of the week.

[...]

Brian

Which day is Mittwoch and which god is it holy to?
http://www.woxikon.com/wort/mittwoch.php

Andrew Usher :
And the first day of the week is Sunday, not Monday - that is an
incontrovertible fact.

Crap.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

Andrew Usher set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
continuum:

3. That the leap year rule be changed to have a leap year occur every
fourth save that it be delayed when the leap year would start on a
Thursday, and that this gives 7 leap years in every 29, which is near
enough.

7/29 amounts to 0.2413 of an extra day on average. We're looking for 0.2422.
The Gregorian calendar says 97/400 (0.2425) which is more accurate, the
Revised Julian Calendar says 218/900 (0.24222 recurring) [1] which is more
accurate again.

[1] The RJC says that century years are not leap years unless they leave a
remainder of 2 or 6 when divided by 9. Thus in a 4*225 = 900-year cycle
seven leap-years are omitted. The RJC is currently in sync with the
Gregorian, and will not diverge therefrom until 2800.
--
ξ Proud to be curly

Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply

Mike Barnes wrote:
Andrew Usher :
And the first day of the week is Sunday, not Monday - that is an
incontrovertible fact.

Crap.


Perhaps we could just point everyone to the last thread discussing which
is the first day of the week.
--
Cheryl (votes for Sunday)

Andrew Usher wrote:
On Feb 19, 6:07 pm, Robert Bannister wrote:

6. This is surely the best possible arrangement that can be made,
without disturbing the cycle of weeks or that of calendar days
inherited from the Romans.
If you are going to try to make it sensible, then please give us 13
four-week months with one or two specially named days at the end of the
year to even it out. The first day of each month should be a Monday.

Once again, I said that I excluded having days outside the week. And
the first day of the week is Sunday, not Monday - that is an
incontrovertible fact.

Having 13 months, in addition, would screw up a bunch of things ; in
particular, 13 can't be divided.

But you hate decimal!

/BAH

Cheryl :
Mike Barnes wrote:
Andrew Usher :
And the first day of the week is Sunday, not Monday - that is an
incontrovertible fact.
Crap.

Perhaps we could just point everyone to the last thread discussing
which is the first day of the week.

I don't think you've characterised that thread quite right. People
discussed which day of the week was most convenient for them. IIRC no-
one was insisting that one day was *the* first day of the week.

But if anyone subscribes to the view that there is a "the" first day of
the week, they should take a look at the International Standard ISO
8601, in which weeks are defined as beginning on Monday.

--
Cheryl (votes for Sunday)

--
Mike Barnes (doesn't think it's a voting matter)
Cheshire, England

On Feb 20, 2:53*am, "Mike Dworetsky"
wrote:
Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
On Feb 19, 4:34 am, James Hogg wrote:
John Atkinson wrote:
Halmyre wrote:
On 19 Feb, 04:58, "Ray O'Hara" wrote:
"Andrew Usher" wrote in message

...

Owing to the inconveniences which attend the shifting of the
calendar, and attempting in passing to create a more perfect
Church calendar, I say the following: 1. That Christmas day
should be fixed to a Sunday, and this should be the Sunday
between Dec. 21 and 27, and that in all civilised countries the
Monday should be considered a holiday, or the Saturday if not
normally. 2. That similarly Easter day should be fixed to the
Sunday which is 15 weeks following Christmas. 3. That the leap
year rule be changed to have a leap year occur every fourth
save that it be delayed when the leap year would start on a
Thursday, and that this gives 7 leap years in every 29, which
is near enough. 4. That the perpetual calendar can be made, by
considering the first day of the year of weeks to occur on the
Sunday after the Assumption, and if this is the first possible
calendar day, it is called week 1, and otherwise week 2, and
every year runs through week 53. And this calendar ensures that
everything can be fixed to a day of a certain week, in
particular the American Thanksgiving must be made 31 days
before Christmas. 6. This is surely the best possible
arrangement that can be made, without disturbing the cycle of
weeks or that of calendar days inherited from the Romans.
Andrew Usher
The calendar has several sources, not just the Rome and the onewe
habe in fine as it is
I just wish they'd settle on a date for Easter and be done with it.

But, the whole point of Easter is that it has a full moon! You might
as well scrap the whole thing otherwise. Or are you suggesting that
we only take holidays at Easter every four years or so, when your
“settled” date just happens to correspond with the right lunar
phase?

My Book of Common Prayer makes things easy by pointing out that "the
moon referred to in the definition of Easter Day is not the actual
moon of the heavens, but the Calendar Moon, or Moon of the Lunar
Cycle, which is counted as full on its fourteenth day, reckoned from
the day of the Calendar New Moon inclusive." Also, in a Bissextile
Year "the number of Sundays after Epiphany will be the same, as if
Easter Day had fallen one day later than it really does."

the Orthodox (Eastern) churches have a slightly different system.
dunno exactly what it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter

Easter

Orthodox Easter and other events are based on the Julian Calendar (one year
= 365.25 days), while Catholic and Protestant practice follows the Gregorian
calendar (one year = 365.2425 days plus the 1582 dropping of 10 days). *Over
several centuries, the date of the spring equinox has drifted away from
March 21 in the Orthodox calendar.

The two religious systems have different methods for calculating Easter
within their own calendars.

Do a Google search for "calendar FAQ".




yes, thank you IIRC somebody else pointed that out.





Easter is a moveable feast, meaning it is not fixed in relation to the
civil calendar. The First Council of Nicaea (325) established the date
of Easter as the first Sunday after the full moon (the Paschal Full
Moon) following the vernal equinox.[3] Ecclesiastically, the equinox
is reckoned to be on March 21 (regardless of the astronomically
correct date), and the "Full Moon" is not necessarily the
astronomically correct date. The date of Easter therefore varies
between March 22 and April 25. Eastern Christianity bases its
calculations on the Julian Calendar whose March 21 corresponds, during
the twenty-first century, to April 3 in the Gregorian Calendar, in
which calendar their celebration of Easter therefore varies between
April 4 and May 8.

What could be simpler?

--
James

--
Mike Dworetsky

(Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
valid...
Cheryl :
Mike Barnes wrote:
Andrew Usher :
And the first day of the week is Sunday, not Monday - that is an
incontrovertible fact.
Crap.

Perhaps we could just point everyone to the last thread discussing
which is the first day of the week.

I don't think you've characterised that thread quite right. People
discussed which day of the week was most convenient for them. IIRC no-
one was insisting that one day was *the* first day of the week.

But if anyone subscribes to the view that there is a "the" first day of
the week, they should take a look at the International Standard ISO
8601, in which weeks are defined as beginning on Monday.

Perhaps you should look at this:
http://tinyurl.com/ybvrll5
The rest of the world seems to have told International Standard ISO 8601
to get stuffed, along with the International Standard Language Esperanto.





--
Cheryl (votes for Sunday)

--
Mike Barnes (doesn't think it's a voting matter)
Cheshire, England

Androcles :

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message news:W1kjfgY
...
Cheryl :
Mike Barnes wrote:
Andrew Usher :
And the first day of the week is Sunday, not Monday - that is an
incontrovertible fact.
Crap.

Perhaps we could just point everyone to the last thread discussing
which is the first day of the week.

I don't think you've characterised that thread quite right. People
discussed which day of the week was most convenient for them. IIRC no-
one was insisting that one day was *the* first day of the week.

But if anyone subscribes to the view that there is a "the" first day of
the week, they should take a look at the International Standard ISO
8601, in which weeks are defined as beginning on Monday.

Perhaps you should look at this:
http://tinyurl.com/ybvrll5
The rest of the world seems to have told International Standard ISO 8601
to get stuffed,

shrug
http://tinyurl.com/ydj7ywc

Europe uses week numbers much more than the USA. I view the American
week-starts-on-Sunday thing in much the same light as feet and inches,
degrees Fahrenheit, etc.

along with the International Standard Language Esperanto.

Esperanto is nothing to do with the ISO.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

Androcles wrote:
"Mike Dworetsky" wrote in message
...
Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
On Feb 19, 4:34 am, James Hogg wrote:
John Atkinson wrote:
Halmyre wrote:
On 19 Feb, 04:58, "Ray O'Hara" wrote:
"Andrew Usher" wrote in message

...

Owing to the inconveniences which attend the shifting of the
calendar, and attempting in passing to create a more perfect
Church calendar, I say the following: 1. That Christmas day
should be fixed to a Sunday, and this should be the Sunday
between Dec. 21 and 27, and that in all civilised countries the
Monday should be considered a holiday, or the Saturday if not
normally. 2. That similarly Easter day should be fixed to the
Sunday which is 15 weeks following Christmas. 3. That the leap
year rule be changed to have a leap year occur every fourth
save that it be delayed when the leap year would start on a
Thursday, and that this gives 7 leap years in every 29, which
is near enough. 4. That the perpetual calendar can be made, by
considering the first day of the year of weeks to occur on the
Sunday after the Assumption, and if this is the first possible
calendar day, it is called week 1, and otherwise week 2, and
every year runs through week 53. And this calendar ensures that
everything can be fixed to a day of a certain week, in
particular the American Thanksgiving must be made 31 days
before Christmas. 6. This is surely the best possible
arrangement that can be made, without disturbing the cycle of
weeks or that of calendar days inherited from the Romans.
Andrew Usher
The calendar has several sources, not just the Rome and the
onewe habe in fine as it is
I just wish they'd settle on a date for Easter and be done with
it.

But, the whole point of Easter is that it has a full moon! You
might as well scrap the whole thing otherwise. Or are you
suggesting that we only take holidays at Easter every four years
or so, when your “settled” date just happens to correspond with
the right lunar phase?

My Book of Common Prayer makes things easy by pointing out that
"the moon referred to in the definition of Easter Day is not the
actual moon of the heavens, but the Calendar Moon, or Moon of the
Lunar Cycle, which is counted as full on its fourteenth day,
reckoned from the day of the Calendar New Moon inclusive." Also,
in a Bissextile Year "the number of Sundays after Epiphany will be
the same, as if Easter Day had fallen one day later than it really
does."

the Orthodox (Eastern) churches have a slightly different system.
dunno exactly what it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter

Easter

Orthodox Easter and other events are based on the Julian Calendar
(one year = 365.25 days), while Catholic and Protestant practice
follows the Gregorian calendar (one year = 365.2425 days plus the
1582 dropping of 10 days). Over several centuries, the date of the
spring equinox has drifted away from March 21 in the Orthodox
calendar. The two religious systems have different methods for
calculating
Easter within their own calendars.

Do a Google search for "calendar FAQ".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsD2Nku6Zqo
Over two millennia, the date of the spring equinox has drifted by a
month.

Over 2000 years, the calendrical difference of 0.0075 d/yr adds up to 15
days. In 1582, a correction of 10 days was done because the original
agreement for the date of Easter was made not on AD1 but in AD325 at the
Council of Nicea, so the accumulation over 1257 years was 9.4 days. I'm not
certain why they dropped 10 days instead of 9; possibly because 1600 would
not be a Gregorian leap year? Or possibly because the most prevalent date
was already pretty much set by around AD200?

--
Mike Dworetsky

(Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)