The perpetual calendar

On Feb 18, 11:13*pm, Andrew Usher wrote:
Owing to the inconveniences which attend the shifting of the calendar,
and attempting in passing to create a more perfect Church calendar, I
say the following:
[snip]
6. This is surely the best possible arrangement that can be made,
without disturbing the cycle of weeks or that of calendar days
inherited from the Romans.

Nonsense! JRR Tolkien's creation of the "Shire Reckoning" is clearly
the ultimate in rationality and convenience for a perpetual calendar.

The year is divided into twelve months of thirty days each, with five
additional days to make up a full 365-day year; six additional days in
leap years. The additional days are not part of any week or month, so
any date always falls on the same day of the week. And, of course,
these additional days are always holidays, accompanied by festive
eating and drinking in what my generation tends still to call "mass
quantities".

I didn't find a really good explanation of the system in a quick
google search. Read the Appendix to JRRT's /The Lord of the Rings/ for
the complete low-down.

Jim Deutch (JimboCat)
--
My adversary's argument
is not alone malevolent
but ignorant to boot.
He hasn't even got the sense
to state his so-called evidence
in terms I can refute.
- Piet Hein, /The Untenable Argument/

On Feb 19, 3:06 am, R H Draney wrote:

(On a more serious note, I'd like to see an actual printed calendar for Andrew's
proposed system...I have a gnawing unease that it may actually make Friday the
13th *more* common than it is already)....

I did not investigate this, as it is a useless superstition -
Nevertheless, I can see now that it would make Fridays the 13th
slightly less common than now.

Andrew Usher

On Feb 19, 3:12 am, John Atkinson wrote:

I just wish they'd settle on a date for Easter and be done with it.

But, the whole point of Easter is that it has a full moon! You might as
well scrap the whole thing otherwise. Or are you suggesting that we
only take holidays at Easter every four years or so, when your “settled”
date just happens to correspond with the right lunar phase?

I was taking into account the words of the Catholic Church that it
would not be objectionable to fix Easter to a particular Sunday. But
it must be a Sunday, and so the best that can be done is a range of 7
days, which my proposal accomplishes - Apr.5-11, which is exactly the
middle of the current range.

Andrew Usher

On Feb 19, 11:49 am, Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:

I think it was two years ago that the first night of Passover was on
Holy Thursday (or vice versa), which precisely reproduced the
historical occasion.

Oh, that's what you meant. I though that you were talking about
Passover and Easter actually occurring on the same day. But if Holy
Thursday is taken to run from midnight to midnight (rather than
sundown to sundown), I don't think that that's possible, since the
Hebrew calendar doesn't let Pesach fall on a Friday (with the seder on
the preceding Thursday night).

In Christ's time, there was no such rule, clearly.

Andrew Usher

On Feb 19, 12:08 pm, JimboCat wrote:
On Feb 18, 11:13 pm, Andrew Usher wrote:

Owing to the inconveniences which attend the shifting of the calendar,
and attempting in passing to create a more perfect Church calendar, I
say the following:
[snip]
6. This is surely the best possible arrangement that can be made,
without disturbing the cycle of weeks or that of calendar days
inherited from the Romans.

Nonsense! JRR Tolkien's creation of the "Shire Reckoning" is clearly
the ultimate in rationality and convenience for a perpetual calendar.

The year is divided into twelve months of thirty days each, with five
additional days to make up a full 365-day year; six additional days in
leap years. The additional days are not part of any week or month, so
any date always falls on the same day of the week.

I said precisely that there must not be days outside the week.

Andrew Usher

On Feb 19, 11:52 am, Halmyre wrote:

But, the whole point of Easter is that it has a full moon! You might as
well scrap the whole thing otherwise. Or are you suggesting that we
only take holidays at Easter every four years or so, when your “settled”
date just happens to correspond with the right lunar phase?

We don't have Christmas only when there's a bright star in the east.

It's like saying "I was born on a Wednesday, so I'll only celebrate my
birthday when it falls on a Wednesday".

The reason I fix Christmas to a Sunday has been my observation that
arranging a family Christmas is substantially more convenient when it
falls on a weekend than in the middle of the week. Given that
Christmas is the most important holiday in the year, should we not all
get at least a 3-day weekend, which we have for lesser holidays?

Andrew Usher

Andrew Usher wrote:
On Feb 19, 11:52 am, Halmyre wrote:

But, the whole point of Easter is that it has a full moon! You might as
well scrap the whole thing otherwise. Or are you suggesting that we
only take holidays at Easter every four years or so, when your “settled”
date just happens to correspond with the right lunar phase?
We don't have Christmas only when there's a bright star in the east.

It's like saying "I was born on a Wednesday, so I'll only celebrate my
birthday when it falls on a Wednesday".

The reason I fix Christmas to a Sunday has been my observation that
arranging a family Christmas is substantially more convenient when it
falls on a weekend than in the middle of the week. Given that
Christmas is the most important holiday in the year, should we not all
get at least a 3-day weekend, which we have for lesser holidays?

Andrew Usher

The thing is that depending on your job, local holidays (eg whether
Boxing Day is included) and the fact that New Year's Day comes so
closely after Christmas Day, judicious use of annual leave days can give
much more than three days in a row off if Christmas Day itself is mid-week.

I would have thought that the summer holidays were far more important,
at least to families with school-aged children, and in the US,
Thanksgiving has an astonishing degree of importance.

--
Cheryl

In sci.physics Andrew Usher wrote:
On Feb 19, 11:52 am, Halmyre wrote:

But, the whole point of Easter is that it has a full moon! You might as
well scrap the whole thing otherwise. Or are you suggesting that we
only take holidays at Easter every four years or so, when your “settled�
date just happens to correspond with the right lunar phase?

We don't have Christmas only when there's a bright star in the east.

It's like saying "I was born on a Wednesday, so I'll only celebrate my
birthday when it falls on a Wednesday".

The reason I fix Christmas to a Sunday has been my observation that
arranging a family Christmas is substantially more convenient when it
falls on a weekend than in the middle of the week. Given that
Christmas is the most important holiday in the year, should we not all
get at least a 3-day weekend, which we have for lesser holidays?

Andrew Usher

Less than around 30% of the world population cares about Christmas or
Easter or think that "Christmas is the most important holiday in the year".


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Zhang Dawei wrote (19-02-2010 17:40):
António Marques wrote:

How can you even *think* that is the case?? How can you even
*notice* the holidays shown are US-specific? Obviously the US
holidays are there to illustrate how it works, not to be used
universally. Likewise the numerals and month names. Sheesh.

I can simply think it is the case because the website gives no
indication at all that the holidays are there *merely* as an
illustration, and the way it is described suggests a definite proposal
of those dates (as well as the other holidays taken from a limited
selection of other countries) to be holidays. Furthermore, given the
lack of appreciation from some of the world's geography, it is not
unreasonable to suppose that one should take what is proposed in that
website at face-value. If they were there *merely* as an illustration,
then that should have been made clearly known. So, it is not obvious
at all, and your complaint that I have somehow been deficient in not
engaging in mind-reading here is unwarranted.

In fact, there should be no country-specific holidays shown at all if
the intent is to try to persuade as many people as possible, from as
many countries as possible, round to thinking this kind of calendar is
a good thing. Instead, a better tactical move would be to always use
generic names, holidays, and so on (like the "Mid-Quarter days"), with
a note stating that additional holidays could be added, according to
each country's requirements.

So, it remains a failure if its intent is merely to illustrate the
concept because it fails to explicitly say that it is just an
illustration, and it fails to mention the country-specific
customizations of the holidays explicitly. Furthermore, if the overall
aim is persuade people from different countries round to accepting the
concept, the above slip ups are compounded into a tactical error
brought about by this by seeming to insist on just a small limited
number of specified country's holidays, which will not persuade people
from different countries to accept the proposals.

A word of advice: when your interpretation of something makes no sense at
all, and yet a tiny change in one of your assumptions may make all the
nonsense go away, be prepared to revise your assumption. Communication only
works thanks to the ability of both parties to infer the strictly unstated.
It's only natural that unnecessary disambiguation be omitted. That can lead
to misunderstading at times, but it's the price to pay for efficiency.

Another one: when you come across some idea/proposal that appears to have
some obvious flaw, which however can be left out with no impact at all on
the rest, feel free to leave it out and just evaluate the rest.

Halmyre wrote (19-02-2010 17:52):
On 19 Feb, 09:12, John wrote:
Halmyre wrote:
I just wish they'd settle on a date for Easter and be done with it.

But, the whole point of Easter is that it has a full moon! You might
as well scrap the whole thing otherwise. Or are you suggesting that
we only take holidays at Easter every four years or so, when your
“settled� date just happens to correspond with the right lunar phase?

We don't have Christmas only when there's a bright star in the east.

It's like saying "I was born on a Wednesday, so I'll only celebrate my
birthday when it falls on a Wednesday".

Christmas is a feast that was established late, based on arbitrary
convention, and of relatively minor religious standing (the feast, not the
event it commemorates).

Easter is the central feast of Christianity, would be an end in itself if
nothing else, and of which all the particulars have the highest religious
significance. (Regardless of whatever pagan festivals coincide with it in
date or outward meaning.)

Chocolate bunnies and eggs, you can put them everywhere you like, but that's
not Easter.