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BFR early next year.
Elon Musk said at South by Southwest that his Big Falcon Rocket would start doing small test flights early next year. https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/0...xsw_interview/ Of course we all know (including himself) about his track record on respecting schedule. Still, if he says he wants to fly early next year, the rocket development must be somewhat advanced. Alain Fournier |
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BFR early next year.
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BFR early next year.
JF Mezei wrote on Tue, 13 Mar 2018
04:39:45 -0400: On 2018-03-12 20:37, Alain Fournier wrote: Elon Musk said at South by Southwest that his Big Falcon Rocket would start doing small test flights early next year. "small test" ? a 1m high scale model with a tank of diet coke into which a Mentos candy is dropped? :-) Small test such as lift off, hover, land. Space-X apparently has begun to test its new Raptor engines. For commercial aircraft, they can mount a new engine on a 747 and test it in flight. (same fuel, and sufficiently spaced pylons make it possible to mount new engine) What are Musk's options to test fly the new engines? Why would he need to? He needs to test fly pieces of the actual rocket. If you're just dinking with engines you can get most of your data from ground tests. Can they built a Falcon-9 with a few raptor engines and a methane tank instead of Kerosene for a test flight? They can, but why the hell would they do that? Or must one assume that a test flight will be raptor engines on a BFR stage 1 (even if it is topped by a cone instead of stage 2) ? That's probably the simplest route. Or they could do BFS first. From a light load point of view, is it a problem of the methane and LOX tanks are only partly fueled since this is such a short flight? Why would that be a problem? The rocket has to continue to work when the tanks are partially empty, after all. or would this require smaller tanks? Or can the tank be fitted with a helium filled balloon that fill's the otherwise empty tank space? You REALLY don't understand this stuff, do you? -- "Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar territory." --G. Behn |
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BFR early next year.
On 18-03-13 11:53 , Jeff Findley wrote:
In article , says... On 2018-03-12 20:37, Alain Fournier wrote: Elon Musk said at South by Southwest that his Big Falcon Rocket would start doing small test flights early next year. ... Or must one assume that a test flight will be raptor engines on a BFR stage 1 (even if it is topped by a cone instead of stage 2) ? I believe BFS will be tested first. It has fewer engines than BFR. For small, Grasshopper-like hops, it would be enough to mount just one of the two (or are there now more than two?) BFS sea-level engines. From a light load point of view, is it a problem of the methane and LOX tanks are only partly fueled since this is such a short flight? or would this require smaller tanks? You can do a partial fill for short "hops". Does your car's gas tank need to be full to make a trip to the grocery store? The BFS has the smaller "header tanks" (inside the main fuel tank). If only these tanks are used in the hops, the unused volume is not so large. -- Niklas Holsti Tidorum Ltd niklas holsti tidorum fi . @ . |
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BFR early next year.
On Mar/13/2018 at 5:53 AM, Jeff Findley wrote :
In article , says... On 2018-03-12 20:37, Alain Fournier wrote: Elon Musk said at South by Southwest that his Big Falcon Rocket would start doing small test flights early next year. "small test" ? a 1m high scale model with a tank of diet coke into which a Mentos candy is dropped? :-) Space-X apparently has begun to test its new Raptor engines. For commercial aircraft, they can mount a new engine on a 747 and test it in flight. (same fuel, and sufficiently spaced pylons make it possible to mount new engine) What are Musk's options to test fly the new engines? BFS. It could be that the first BFS would be similar to Grasshopper or Enterprise in that it won't have all the systems necessary for supporting a crew in space. Automated testing only. In https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/0...xsw_interview/ it isn't quite clear whether the test if for BFR or BFS. But I'm not sure if you are stating as fact that it will be BFS or if that is just your guess. So do you know that it will be BFS or do you think it will be BFS. Can they built a Falcon-9 with a few raptor engines and a methane tank instead of Kerosene for a test flight? No, not without significant engineering, which would be a complete waste of time and money. Or must one assume that a test flight will be raptor engines on a BFR stage 1 (even if it is topped by a cone instead of stage 2) ? I believe BFS will be tested first. It has fewer engines than BFR. Also, it might even have SSTO capability by itself without much payload of course. I would be very surprised if BFS had anything close to SSTO capability. It is a spaceship not a launch vehicle. If they do just a little hop with BFR or BFS, I would call that just a small test. But I'm not if it should be called a small ****ing test or what :-) Alain Fournier |
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BFR early next year.
On 18-03-13 23:01 , Alain Fournier wrote:
... I would be very surprised if BFS had anything close to SSTO capability. It is a spaceship not a launch vehicle. Musk has said the BFS can do SSTO. Quotes from Musk's answer at https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musks...bfs-spaceship/, section headed "DEVELOPMENT SCHEDULE": --- start quote: Q: ... Will we see BFS hops or smaller test vehicles similar to Grasshopper/F9R-Dev? Facilities being built? Propellant plant testing? etc. etc. A (Elon): Will be starting with a full-scale Ship doing short hops of a few hundred kilometers altitude and lateral distance. Those are fairly easy on the vehicle, as no heat shield is needed, we can have a large amount of reserve propellant and don’t need the high area ratio, deep space Raptor engines. Next step will be doing orbital velocity Ship flights, which will need all of the above. Worth noting that BFS is capable of reaching orbit by itself with low payload, but having the BF Booster increases payload by more than an order of magnitude. Earth is the wrong planet for single stage to orbit. No problemo on Mars. --- end quote. -- Niklas Holsti Tidorum Ltd niklas holsti tidorum fi . @ . |
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BFR early next year.
In article , says...
On Mar/13/2018 at 5:53 AM, Jeff Findley wrote : In article , says... On 2018-03-12 20:37, Alain Fournier wrote: Elon Musk said at South by Southwest that his Big Falcon Rocket would start doing small test flights early next year. "small test" ? a 1m high scale model with a tank of diet coke into which a Mentos candy is dropped? :-) Space-X apparently has begun to test its new Raptor engines. For commercial aircraft, they can mount a new engine on a 747 and test it in flight. (same fuel, and sufficiently spaced pylons make it possible to mount new engine) What are Musk's options to test fly the new engines? BFS. It could be that the first BFS would be similar to Grasshopper or Enterprise in that it won't have all the systems necessary for supporting a crew in space. Automated testing only. In https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/0...xsw_interview/ it isn't quite clear whether the test if for BFR or BFS. But I'm not sure if you are stating as fact that it will be BFS or if that is just your guess. So do you know that it will be BFS or do you think it will be BFS. It's my interpretation of what Musk has said. I could be wrong. Can they built a Falcon-9 with a few raptor engines and a methane tank instead of Kerosene for a test flight? No, not without significant engineering, which would be a complete waste of time and money. Or must one assume that a test flight will be raptor engines on a BFR stage 1 (even if it is topped by a cone instead of stage 2) ? I believe BFS will be tested first. It has fewer engines than BFR. Also, it might even have SSTO capability by itself without much payload of course. I would be very surprised if BFS had anything close to SSTO capability. It is a spaceship not a launch vehicle. Hey, that's what Musk has said. He's the "chief engineer" at SpaceX. Gwynne Shotwell runs the business from day to day. Jeff -- All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone. These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends, employer, or any organization that I am a member of. |
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BFR early next year.
In article ,
says... On 2018-03-13 17:01, Alain Fournier wrote: If they do just a little hop with BFR or BFS, I would call that just a small test. But I'm not if it should be called a small ****ing test or what :-) I they are able to get to test either BFS or BFR with real engines and real tanks by next year, it is a HUGE thing because it means they have progressed significantly in all of the core issues that allow scaling to such a large rocket. They built a full scale composite tank and pressure tested it to destruction a couple years ago. http://www.businessinsider.com/space...nk-ocean-ship- test-2016-11 Getting to the point where you can build the prototypes is a big thing even if the test flight ends up being glorified fireworks. The prototypes had better be close to BFR/BFS in many ways, or it wouldn't be very useful would it? Jeff -- All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone. These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends, employer, or any organization that I am a member of. |
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BFR early next year.
Alain Fournier wrote on Tue, 13 Mar 2018
17:01:07 -0400: On Mar/13/2018 at 5:53 AM, Jeff Findley wrote : In article , says... On 2018-03-12 20:37, Alain Fournier wrote: Elon Musk said at South by Southwest that his Big Falcon Rocket would start doing small test flights early next year. "small test" ? a 1m high scale model with a tank of diet coke into which a Mentos candy is dropped? :-) Space-X apparently has begun to test its new Raptor engines. For commercial aircraft, they can mount a new engine on a 747 and test it in flight. (same fuel, and sufficiently spaced pylons make it possible to mount new engine) What are Musk's options to test fly the new engines? BFS. It could be that the first BFS would be similar to Grasshopper or Enterprise in that it won't have all the systems necessary for supporting a crew in space. Automated testing only. In https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/0...xsw_interview/ it isn't quite clear whether the test if for BFR or BFS. But I'm not sure if you are stating as fact that it will be BFS or if that is just your guess. So do you know that it will be BFS or do you think it will be BFS. Looking it up, Musk said, “I think we might be able to do short hopper flights with the spaceship part of BFR, maybe next year. By hopper tests, I mean kind of like the beginning of the Grasshopper program for Falcon 9... it will go up several miles and come down." So that should be the end of all speculation. Can they built a Falcon-9 with a few raptor engines and a methane tank instead of Kerosene for a test flight? No, not without significant engineering, which would be a complete waste of time and money. Or must one assume that a test flight will be raptor engines on a BFR stage 1 (even if it is topped by a cone instead of stage 2) ? I believe BFS will be tested first. It has fewer engines than BFR. Also, it might even have SSTO capability by itself without much payload of course. I would be very surprised if BFS had anything close to SSTO capability. It is a spaceship not a launch vehicle. It is both. Musk has stated that BFR Spaceship is capable of SSTO operation, but only with small payloads. Remember, this thing is not JUST a spaceship. It is designed to land on both Earth and Mars and to take off powered from Mars and return to Earth. It is also intended to be able to do transcontinental flights with large payloads. If they do just a little hop with BFR or BFS, I would call that just a small test. But I'm not if it should be called a small ****ing test or what :-) The 'little hop' will apparently be on the order of several hundred kilometers up and sideways and then return. -- "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." --George Bernard Shaw |
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