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Flat Earthers are still around



 
 
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  #31  
Old June 8th 16, 12:46 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default Flat Earthers are still around

On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 12:14:57 AM UTC-4, RichA wrote:
On Monday, 6 June 2016 16:09:00 UTC-4, SlurpieMcDoublegulp wrote:
What happens if you ask an astrophysicist whether the Earth is flat? If that astrophysicist is Neil deGrasse Tyson, he first gives you a brutal side-eye that terrifies you to your core, before explaining the real reason why there are still people who believe the Earth is flat and we are at the center of the universe.
Read why:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...hp_ref=science


What does it say about Tyson that he'd get into a discussion of physics with a rapper? "Too-too-too-too much time on my hands..."


-----

The musician can make more money and live in a nicer house than the scientist. Maybe Tyson was hoping some of the glamour would rub off on him.
  #32  
Old June 8th 16, 01:39 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default Flat Earthers are still around

On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 7:03:05 AM UTC-4, wrote:

However, the distant star is providing a reference point for determining ANGULAR VELOCITY of the Earth's rotation. Relative to a location on the Earth's equator, that star is moving MUCH faster than 1000 miles per hour.


You can't measure its speed in the short term because you cannot measure its distance. That's why it can be used to determine the earth's angular velocity.

http://www.richardfisher.com
  #33  
Old June 8th 16, 02:05 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
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Default Flat Earthers are still around

On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 1:39:59 PM UTC+1, Helpful person wrote:
On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 7:03:05 AM UTC-4, wrote:

However, the distant star is providing a reference point for determining ANGULAR VELOCITY of the Earth's rotation. Relative to a location on the Earth's equator, that star is moving MUCH faster than 1000 miles per hour.


You can't measure its speed in the short term because you cannot measure its distance. That's why it can be used to determine the earth's angular velocity.

http://www.richardfisher.com


I have to shake my head sometimes in exasperation as just when I think people cannot descend into anarchy any further they somehow manage it.

The Lat/Long system and the 24 hour system is built on latitudinal speeds which decrease either side of the Equator until they diminish to 0 miles per hour at the North and South poles.

If the Earth's Equator is 24901 miles in circumference then equal divisions of 15 degrees will reflect 1037.5 miles of geometric/geographical separation. These 15 degrees were represented as 1 hour time difference as a watch takes no account of diminishing latitudinal speeds but registers only the average rate of rotation based on specific astronomical principles beginning with the calendar framework.

A rotating celestial sphere and a watch gives no indication of latitudinal speeds beyond the ability to designate latitude via degree of inclination to Polaris which is then set off against tables which reflect that one degree of longitude at the Equator is 69.17 miles and 4 minutes time difference and therefore represents the 24901 mile circumference and 24 hours clock time.

It is all held together by the observation that one day/night cycle (Monday,Tuesday,Wednesday and so on) is due to one rotation which celestial sphere enthusiasts refuse to accept.





  #34  
Old June 8th 16, 02:24 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default Flat Earthers are still around

On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 2:05:58 PM UTC+1, oriel36 wrote:

It is all held together by the observation that one day/night cycle (Monday,Tuesday,Wednesday and so on) is due to one rotation which celestial sphere enthusiasts refuse to accept.


If the Earth rotates once on its axis every 24 hours exactly, why do the stars rise roughly 4 minutes earlier every night? Why do the stars during the polar night execute a circle of the sky every 23 hours 56 minutes?

Either the 24 hours number is wrong, or all the stars, all the galaxies, the entire universe is rotating around the Earth by 1 degree per day to explain this difference.

Or it could be that the Earth moves around the Sun, and must rotate 1 degree extra per day to bring the Sun back to the same position. Nah, rotating Universe makes more sense, right, with us at the dead centre? Geocentrism reinvented!

You are really bad at visualizing the moving Earth - this is the same problem you are having with inner planet retrogrades.
  #35  
Old June 8th 16, 04:26 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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On Wednesday, 8 June 2016 15:24:59 UTC+2, wrote:

You are really bad at visualizing the moving Earth - this is the same problem you are having with inner planet retrogrades.


Once upon a time, children, there were some planets and they circled around their great, big, hot Sun. First came the little, baby Mercury which was very, very hot. Then there was mighty Venus which had an atmosphere so thick you could melt lead if you really felt the need to go there just to do that sort of thing. Then came the Wandering Planet known as Mars....
  #36  
Old June 8th 16, 05:09 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
RichA[_6_]
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Default Flat Earthers are still around

On Wednesday, 8 June 2016 01:49:32 UTC-4, Chris.B wrote:
On Wednesday, 8 June 2016 06:19:09 UTC+2, RichA wrote:

I'd just like to add that liberal Huffington Post's "science" section is pop-science s--- aimed at morons.



There are vast numbers of morons in comparison with those with "useful" intelligence. So Huffington could be accused of trying to raise the bar in the general population. Or is simply following standard business practice and serving moronic advertising to a moronic viewer base to sell moronic stuff to ever larger numbers of morons. [MacLardy's, Croak, Starbux, Drunkin', etc.etc]

Anything which makes a moron think slightly more deeply about something could eventually raise moronship standards in general. Though it still isn't guaranteed, of course, because after several million years mankind is still basically a hive moron. The system works. The morons act as gullible workers and consumers without having any potentially dangerous thoughts. While the more intelligent get to play with their own toys with much less competition for self-expression.

China is an interesting test of average moronship. They are producing huge numbers of qualified people and releasing them into what was formerly a peasant, agricultural society. Whether the ratios are changing fast enough to undo the damage caused by the Cultural Revolution is quite another matter.. It also depends whether a qualification signifies true intelligence. Rather than an ability to remember lots of details and reproduce them on demand..

The communist party does at least provide a sponge for the inbetweeners. Too dumb to think of anything but greed and personal power. Not bright enough to be a businessman, engineer or scientist. Has the average IQ of Cambodia crashed since its genocide of all those with two brain cells to rub together? I suppose we should just hope [rather desperately] that Pol Pot's bunch of losers never managed to breed successfully. That would only have made matters worse. ;-)


Good question, about Cambodia. Same thing probably happened in France to a lesser degree during "The Terror."
  #37  
Old June 8th 16, 05:40 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
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Default Flat Earthers are still around

On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 2:24:59 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 2:05:58 PM UTC+1, oriel36 wrote:

It is all held together by the observation that one day/night cycle (Monday,Tuesday,Wednesday and so on) is due to one rotation which celestial sphere enthusiasts refuse to accept.


If the Earth rotates once on its axis every 24 hours exactly, why do the stars rise roughly 4 minutes earlier every night?


The proof that the Earth orbits the Sun uses the same observation for the core principle which drives all timekeeping.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeQwYrfmvoQ

The disappearance and re-appearance of the stars lying close to or on the orbital plane provides one of those amazing astronomical observations which determine the inviolate proportion between days and years or its dynamical equivalent of proportions to orbital circuits -

"On account of the precession of the rising of Sirius by one day in the course of 4 years therefore it shall be, that the year of 360 days and the 5 days added to their end, so one day shall be from this day after every 4 years added to the 5 epagomenae before the New Year" Canopus Decree, 236 BC

Once the constant progression of days is instituted and the extra day/rotation represents the 6 hours of orbital drift left out in a 365 day/rotational cycle, it then becomes possible to integrate the 24 hour system and the Lat/Long system as a further development.

It means once a person asks where the 24 hour day comes from they are drawn into a journey of discovery through history and the references used to keep days in close proximity to the orbital points of the Solstices and Equinoxes and they can dispense with trying to link daily rotation directly to a rotating celestial sphere.

An inquiring student may ask how do we know we are orbiting the Sun and not the Sun moving through the background field of stars as the Greeks thought and the answer is pretty special. It means dropping the perspective that the Sun moves through the Zodiac (this is where your joke animation of Mercury comes from) and shift to the more accurate line-of-sight observation that the stars disappear behind the Sun in sequence and re-appear behind its glare a few months later as ElNath,Castor and Pollux are seen to do -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdFrE7hWj0A

Notice the central Sun is implied ?, didn't think so but for those who are on a journey of discovery it is how to make sense of the motions of the inner planets and the foundations of timekeeping.

  #38  
Old June 8th 16, 07:27 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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So why do the stars rise 4 minutes earlier than the sun?
  #40  
Old June 8th 16, 08:47 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default Flat Earthers are still around

On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 8:00:52 PM UTC+1, Sam Wormley wrote:
On 6/8/16 1:27 PM, wrote:
So why do the stars rise 4 minutes earlier than the sun?


With respect to the stars, the Sun appears to move eastward about one
degree per day, causing the sun to rise about four minutes later each
day

The earth rotates 360° every 23h 56m and 4s.


The intellectual anarchy is that they have already jettisoned this notion and replaced it with a different type of anarchy by introducing a non-cyclical assertion in order to draw a non cyclical conclusion -

"At the time of the dinosaurs, Earth completed one rotation in about 23 hours," says MacMillan, who is a member of the VLBI team at NASA Goddard. "In the year 1820, a rotation took exactly 24 hours, or 86,400 standard seconds.. Since 1820, the mean solar day has increased by about 2.5 milliseconds." NASA

The history of timekeeping and the development of accurate watches is based on the 24 hour AM/PM system and the Lat/Long system and these systems in turn fit inside the calendar framework which assigns the proportion of rotations to orbital circuits to a close proximity.

This is all explainable if readers could affirm that each day including today, Wednesday, 8th June is both one rotation with all the experiences of the Sun coming into view (day) followed by the stars (night), tomorrow will be the same and all days and rotations after that. It is complete and utter chaos to believe otherwise and no generation of people deserve this.


The effect can be observed by anyone, that the stars rise in the east
4 minutes earlier each night according to our civil time clocks.

School kids, using two sticks can sight any prominent star in the
nighttime sky two nights in a row and time that the star lines up
with the two sticks every 23h 56m and 4s.


Until you and other academics discover how and where the 24 hour system came from and that encompasses the extra day and rotation that makes up the calendar format as distinct from the raw fact of 365 1/4 rotations within the confines of an orbital circuit, astronomy will remain in an intellectual swamp.

 




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