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#11
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Searching for life in Mars
Jonathan wrote:
The MER rovers were designed to find signs of water NOT LIFE. Curiosity Rover was designed to find habitable conditions NOT LIFE. Wrong. Note Goal 1 of the Curiosity mission: "Goal 1: Determine whether life ever arose on Mars" http://mars.nasa.gov/msl/mission/science/goals/ Hard to do that if it can't detect life. It could land in the middle of a field of moss and it has NOTHING on board that could prove it was life, aside from pictures and that's not proof, unless of course a flippin' bird flew past the lens. Incorrect. I suggest you examine the instruments that Curiosity carries, paying attention to the spectrometer suite (and SAMS in particular). -- "Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong." -- Thomas Jefferson |
#12
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Searching for life in Mars
On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 6:24:55 PM UTC-4, Fred J. McCall wrote:
bob haller wrote: On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 8:13:14 AM UTC-4, Jeff Findley wrote: In article , says... On Saturday, August 13, 2016 at 7:14:40 PM UTC-4, jacob navia wrote: Nasa has published the resultds of methane emissions sensed by the Curiosity rover. There are sometimes mysterious methane hot spots. Great. What is not great is that the rover didn't STOP and tried to figure out from where exactly the methane was coming from! No, it just continued roving around. Not great. The search for life in Mars is becoming completely ridiculous. Either NASA is not really searching anything, or they are just not aware of what they are doing or what? A microbiologist in earth (not associated with NASA) discovers rests of fossilized bacteria in a formation that has the same appearence as fossils here in earth. She describes all her conclusions, publishes an article in a peer reviewed journal... ... and nothing. No, the rover doesn't come back to investigate the fossils and definitely say if those are fossils or not. Of course not. There is a drive plan, etc. Actually there is no search for life there. Rovers are happy roving around but nobody is looking because to look for something you have to believe it exists. If not, "looking for life" looks like what NASA is apparently doing. the rtg that powers curosity has issues. its a prototype, and power is dropping faster than expected. this problenn was known about before launch, but nasa didnt want to delay curosity. at some point roving will end, no doubt nasa wants to get as much travel in before curosity becomes a door stop So, in other words, "Damn the science, we want to rack up as many miles as possible!" Makes zero sense Bob. And of course you have no cite for this assertion. soon curosity will be so power starved science will be curtailed. nas had info on this at the time of launch. tey choose to launch it...... go back and search its beginings, and around the time of it original landing. Bull****. NASA says parts will wear out long before it starts suffering from power shortages. there are plans for sample return...... a red dragon will lland near some retrieved samples, and the samples will be put in the unmanned dragon and returned to earth. Proposal, not a plan. for all those send humans......... once a human steps on te mars surface it will be forever contaminated...... humans are dirty and once they land we will never know if any life found is from earth or already existed on mars before we landed......... Bull****. You think we can't identify Earth organisms? REALLY???? Bobbert, more samples (and more science) were obtained by the first manned moon landing than by ALL unmanned probes combined. Not just 'more', but orders of magnitude more. If humans aren't going, why care at all? -- "Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar territory." --G. Behn when the RTG got changed to a new design, because of shortage of the nuclear fuel nasafound out power was dropping faster than the original design. nasa decided to launch as is, knowing it would shorten its mission..... elon musk is launching red dragon to mars. onceit lands safely on mars surface the door can be opened and some samples put in red dragon, forr proof of concept for return from mars |
#13
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Searching for life in Mars
bob haller wrote:
On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 6:24:55 PM UTC-4, Fred J. McCall wrote: bob haller wrote: On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 8:13:14 AM UTC-4, Jeff Findley wrote: In article , says... On Saturday, August 13, 2016 at 7:14:40 PM UTC-4, jacob navia wrote: Nasa has published the resultds of methane emissions sensed by the Curiosity rover. There are sometimes mysterious methane hot spots. Great. What is not great is that the rover didn't STOP and tried to figure out from where exactly the methane was coming from! No, it just continued roving around. Not great. The search for life in Mars is becoming completely ridiculous. Either NASA is not really searching anything, or they are just not aware of what they are doing or what? A microbiologist in earth (not associated with NASA) discovers rests of fossilized bacteria in a formation that has the same appearence as fossils here in earth. She describes all her conclusions, publishes an article in a peer reviewed journal... ... and nothing. No, the rover doesn't come back to investigate the fossils and definitely say if those are fossils or not. Of course not. There is a drive plan, etc. Actually there is no search for life there. Rovers are happy roving around but nobody is looking because to look for something you have to believe it exists. If not, "looking for life" looks like what NASA is apparently doing. the rtg that powers curosity has issues. its a prototype, and power is dropping faster than expected. this problenn was known about before launch, but nasa didnt want to delay curosity. at some point roving will end, no doubt nasa wants to get as much travel in before curosity becomes a door stop So, in other words, "Damn the science, we want to rack up as many miles as possible!" Makes zero sense Bob. And of course you have no cite for this assertion. soon curosity will be so power starved science will be curtailed. nas had info on this at the time of launch. tey choose to launch it...... go back and search its beginings, and around the time of it original landing. Bull****. NASA says parts will wear out long before it starts suffering from power shortages. there are plans for sample return...... a red dragon will lland near some retrieved samples, and the samples will be put in the unmanned dragon and returned to earth. Proposal, not a plan. for all those send humans......... once a human steps on te mars surface it will be forever contaminated...... humans are dirty and once they land we will never know if any life found is from earth or already existed on mars before we landed......... Bull****. You think we can't identify Earth organisms? REALLY???? Bobbert, more samples (and more science) were obtained by the first manned moon landing than by ALL unmanned probes combined. Not just 'more', but orders of magnitude more. If humans aren't going, why care at all? when the RTG got changed to a new design, because of shortage of the nuclear fuel nasafound out power was dropping faster than the original design. nasa decided to launch as is, knowing it would shorten its mission..... Bobbert, which part of "NASA says that Curiosity will be mission degraded from wear and tear long before it suffers from power shortages" is it that has left you confused? elon musk is launching red dragon to mars. onceit lands safely on mars surface the door can be opened and some samples put in red dragon, forr proof of concept for return from mars How's it get back, Bobbert? Magic pixie dust perhaps? The CONCEPT is to use a modified Red Dragon vehicle (modifications don't exist except as concept) to carry extra fuel, a mechanical arm (that doesn't exist) to transfer samples to a Earth Return Vehicle (that doesn't exist) that would be lifted to Mars orbit by a Mars Ascent Vehicle (that doesn't exist) launching out of a central tube through the nose of the Red Dragon (structural studies of punching that hole and launching a rocket through it don't exist). All this is based on a 2014 NASA conceptual study for a program that was never funded. It is now being noised about by the Red Dragon team that it could be launched in 2022 (not sure when all the new hardware development and testing is supposed to happen) and has no backing or funding inside SpaceX. Are you getting it now? Sample return via Red Dragon doesn't exist. If and when it ever does, it will return a tiny quantity of material, relatively speaking. -- "Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar territory." --G. Behn |
#14
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Searching for life in Mars
Le 14/08/2016 à 16:24, Jeff Findley a écrit :
This has nothing to do with the inability of "toasters" to do more than they are pre-programmed to do. Whenever something unexpected is encountered, they can be programmed to either ignore it or stop everything until someone on earth tells them what to do. They can look for a gradient in the methane concentration that will lead them directly to the source of the emissions... They can dig, sample the terrain, see where in Mars that methane is coming from, isn't that quite evident? Something is there, and it produces methane, specially in spring. Now, we have to loook for that, see what it is. Even if they come back (as they could do NOW!) just to the fossils it would be an enormous discovery: Life is Mars is like earth life and produces similar fossils. Incredible that we do not tell the NASA to come back and look for the life we have already found. This is not about geology, it never was. It is biology that is interesting, much more interesting that rock formations isn't it? NASA could stop the geology program and start an exo biology program. Two indices point to very interesting hints: The methane is coming out of the rocks pointing to a possible source underneath. Life in the surface is difficult and life could be hidden below. But in the precise place where the most pronounced concentration of methane is detected could be outposts from life in the surface or very near it. Other gases could be detected, what would lead us to some metabolism conclusions. The discovery of similar fossils as in earth leads to the logical conclusion that life in mars is very similar to ours. NASA should open their eyes NOW. Let's start a BIOLOGY program and 1) Program that rover to come back where the emissions were the strongest. 2) If the emissions persist, try to find their gradient. 3) Go near the source of the emissions, analyze all gases in the atmosphere at that spot. If there are no emissions continue to the fossils and take a very close loook at them. Compare with similar fossils on earth and see the atomic spectrum and composition. The rover can detect an atomic signature. That would confirm that discovery. Let's find life in mars now ok? Why wait? Humans have all the tools, several machines in place, emissions of methane and possible fossils around. Let's LOOK FOR LIFE NOW. NASA should come back to look and follow those hints that life in mars is giving us. Stop "following the water" and start following that methane now! |
#15
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Searching for life in Mars
In article ,
says... elon musk is launching red dragon to mars. onceit lands safely on mars surface the door can be opened and some samples put in red dragon, forr proof of concept for return from mars That's not exactly how the sample return would work. Red Dragon would have to stay on Mars. A much smaller vehicle inside Red Dragon would need to be used to launch the sample off of Mars. I'm still simplifying a bit. I'll provide a cite with more info (something you should learn how to do): 'Red Dragon' Mars Sample-Return Mission Could Launch by 2022 http://www.space.com/30504-spacex-re...le-return.html Jeff -- All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone. These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends, employer, or any organization that I am a member of. |
#16
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Searching for life in Mars
"Jeff Findley" wrote in message
... In article , says... elon musk is launching red dragon to mars. onceit lands safely on mars surface the door can be opened and some samples put in red dragon, forr proof of concept for return from mars That's not exactly how the sample return would work. Red Dragon would have to stay on Mars. A much smaller vehicle inside Red Dragon would need to be used to launch the sample off of Mars. I'm still simplifying a bit. I'll provide a cite with more info (something you should learn how to do): 'Red Dragon' Mars Sample-Return Mission Could Launch by 2022 http://www.space.com/30504-spacex-re...le-return.html Thanks for the link. Sounds interesting but definitely a bit nebulous if you ask me. But the nice part is... I'm sure it would be cheaper than almost anything NASA would come up with. Of course ultimately the real problem I have is as Fred points out, any crewed mission will immediately obtain just as much and unless they abort immediately probably 10-100x as much mass in samples and a far better selection because of the impact of having a Mark I eyeball on the ground. Apollo showed the value of having trained people on the ground selecting samples. Jeff -- Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/ CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net |
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