NASA's Remembrance Day

It turns out that all three of NASA's worst accidents happened within
five days of each other, at this time of year. The Apollo 1 fire was
on Jan. 26, the Challenger explosion was on Jan. 27 and the Columbia
breakuup was on Feb. 1.

Maybe NASA shouldn't have any missions in the last week of January and
the first week of February.

"F/32 Eurydice" wrote in message
...
It turns out that all three of NASA's worst accidents happened within
five days of each other, at this time of year. The Apollo 1 fire was
on Jan. 26, the Challenger explosion was on Jan. 27 and the Columbia
breakuup was on Feb. 1.

Maybe NASA shouldn't have any missions in the last week of January and
the first week of February.

If those three events were supposed to be in some way coincidental
maybe the Easter Bunny should appear on the first Sunday after the
first full moon after the Spring equinox (with a chocolate egg).

On Jan 30, 9:16�am, "F/32 Eurydice" wrote:
It turns out that all three of NASA's worst accidents happened within
five days of each other, at this time of year. �The Apollo 1 fire was
on Jan. 26, the Challenger explosion was on Jan. 27 and the Columbia
breakuup was on Feb. 1.

Maybe NASA shouldn't have any missions in the last week of January and
the first week of February.

If you ask me NASA should have a safety stand down on those days, to
try and prevent more such sad incidents!

Apollo one was rushing anbd not understanding fire in such a
environment.

But challenger and columbia were both pure management failure, and
worse NASA promoted the top columbia managers, rather than firing
them.



Apollo one fire was january 27 my birthday. some years ago at scott
grissoms invite I attended the memorial service at the pad.

from wikipedia

Dear bob haller safety advocate:

On Jan 30, 7:35*am, bob haller safety advocate
wrote:
On Jan 30, 9:16 am, "F/32 Eurydice" wrote:

It turns out that all three of NASA's worst
accidents happened within five days of each
other, at this time of year. The Apollo 1 fire
was on Jan. 26, the Challenger explosion
was on Jan. 27 and the Columbia breakuup
was on Feb. 1.

Maybe NASA shouldn't have any missions
in the last week of January and the first
week of February.

If you ask me NASA should have a safety
stand down on those days, to try and prevent
more such sad incidents!

Apollo one was rushing anbd not understanding
fire in such a environment.

So, a management decision to proceed with full pressure testing,
without engineering review of the decision.

But challenger and columbia were both pure
management failure,

Challenger had a "brittle" o-ring design. The choice to ignore one
out of hundreds of bits of data is hardly just management.

and worse NASA promoted the top columbia
managers, rather than firing them.

The external tank was painted in the initial missions. The decision
not to paint it, saved significant payload weight, but also allowed
frost to stay adhered longer, carrying insulating foam with it.
Managers are supposed to bring resources to bear on tasks. But
ultimately, the pocketbook describes what tasks can be done before
launch. The blame rests with the taxpayers, and their representatives
that put people at risk, then start bitching about the cost.

Like sending people to war... without proper funding. Our building a
bridge, then ignoring its maintenance because it is cheaper to inspect-
and-report, then to repair the reported defects.

Nature thinks we are little more than food. Sure would be nice if we
would act like more. Labels are easy things to hang. Understanding
requires more effort.

David A. Smith

dlzc plaatste dit op zijn scherm :


David A. Smith

@David:

bob haller is an idiot who wants to see NASA fail at every point,
manned or unmanned...
The best thing to do is ignore him.

I noticed this as well, some time ago. I wonder if its more like people tend
to be reduced in diligence in the winter. Shorter days etc.

Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"F/32 Eurydice" wrote in message
...
It turns out that all three of NASA's worst accidents happened within
five days of each other, at this time of year. The Apollo 1 fire was
on Jan. 26, the Challenger explosion was on Jan. 27 and the Columbia
breakuup was on Feb. 1.

Maybe NASA shouldn't have any missions in the last week of January and
the first week of February.

On Jan 30, 11:56�am, Andr� PE1PQX wrote:
dlzc plaatste dit op zijn scherm :



David A. Smith

@David:

bob haller is an idiot who wants to see NASA fail at every point,
manned or unmanned...
The best thing to do is ignore him.

HEY! I predicted the Columbia loss in ADVANCE based on the increasing
number of flying catches, NASA workers name for near lost vehicle and
crew....... Look back at my posts for at least a year or two BEFORE
columbia, they are there. Pad workers e mailed me attempting to assure
me things were still safe....

Both challenger and columbia were schedule based issues

O Rings had burned before, but it was considered a maintence issue.

Foam loss was common and nearly caused a wing burn thru many flights
before columbia. yet it was ignored

But foam loss a critical one item was moved to a maintence item

At this point NASA doesnt deserve a manned program at all. ARES was
pork piggie payoff to existing shuttle contractors, not better faster
or cheaper than deltas.

It has come back to bite the agency.

I do support putting ALL the shuttle $$$ into a aggresive robotics
program with artificial intelligence. To make those probes and rovers
self sufficent!

F/32 Eurydice wrote:
It turns out that all three of NASA's worst accidents happened within
five days of each other, at this time of year. The Apollo 1 fire was
on Jan. 26, the Challenger explosion was on Jan. 27 and the Columbia
breakuup was on Feb. 1.

Maybe NASA shouldn't have any missions in the last week of January and
the first week of February.

This is called "superstition" and has no place in rational engineering.

dlzc wrote:
Dear bob haller safety advocate:

On Jan 30, 7:35 am, bob haller safety advocate
wrote:
On Jan 30, 9:16 am, "F/32 Eurydice" wrote:

It turns out that all three of NASA's worst
accidents happened within five days of each
other, at this time of year. The Apollo 1 fire
was on Jan. 26, the Challenger explosion
was on Jan. 27 and the Columbia breakuup
was on Feb. 1.
Maybe NASA shouldn't have any missions
in the last week of January and the first
week of February.
If you ask me NASA should have a safety
stand down on those days, to try and prevent
more such sad incidents!

NASA already does so, every January.

Apollo one was rushing anbd not understanding
fire in such a environment.

So, a management decision to proceed with full pressure testing,
without engineering review of the decision.

hallreb is also wrong about the risk of fire not being understood. It
was well understood even in 1967 that high-pressure pure O2 environments
can cause dangerous fires. North American X-15 personnel like Scott
Crossfield even tried to warn their Apollo counterparts.

The external tank was painted in the initial missions. The decision
not to paint it, saved significant payload weight, but also allowed
frost to stay adhered longer, carrying insulating foam with it.

Incorrect. Painting the tank did not reduce foam shedding.

Dear Jorge R. Frank:

On Jan 30, 11:18*am, "Jorge R. Frank" wrote:
....
The external tank was painted in the initial
missions. *The decision not to paint it, saved
significant payload weight, but also allowed
frost to stay adhered longer, carrying insulating
foam with it.

Incorrect. Painting the tank did not reduce foam
shedding.

The frost did not penetrate the paint to any significant extent. This
means it could shear off at lower speeds.

I don't worry about essentially dry foam striking anything that is not
"meat" at Mach+ speeds.

David A. Smith