The Moon Landing Is A Hoax !

Jay Windley wrote:

But you have to consider *why* Gagarin ejected. Simply put, his
spacecraft wasn't capable of landing safely. They hadn't quite
figured out how to do that reliably. But a few weeks later, up went
the U.S. Mercury capsule. Sure, it was smaller and lighter, and
didn't go up very far compared to Gagarin. But it had the ability to
land its occupant safely.

Could Gagarin have landed safely inside Vostok if it had come down in the
ocean?
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

"Slipped the surly bonds of Earth...to touch the face of God"

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 23:49:45 -0700, The Commentator
wrote:

Join OM, the Maxon gang and Scott Grissom in killfile hell.

....Considering how little you contribute around here, you pedantic
misanthrope, I could care less whether I'm in your killfile hell or
not. After all, I sent you into mine over a year ago.

Or was it two? Mox nix, as you go back in again...

PLONK

Guys like this put the "dip" in "dip****"...


OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:49:34 GMT, David Higgins
wrote:

Commentator Non Grata wrote:
On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 23:49:45 -0700, The Masturbator
wrote:

Join OM, the Maxon gang and Scott Grissom in killfile hell.

...Considering how little you contribute around here, you pedantic
misanthrope, I could care less [...]

If "I could care less", why the reply? You protest too
much, OM. :-)

....No, I don't. The dip**** changed his faux e-mail address, which is
how he got out of *my* killfile hell. On the other hand, you fail to
see that when one does in fact care less, it does *not* automatically
negate the need for a reinforcing taunt.

Bottom line: based on his lack of contributions to this group, and
considering what he *has* blathered in the past, he can quite simply
go **** himself. And if he doesn't know how, I'm sure someone can
forward him a copy of Maxson's bound volume of used toilet paper as a
guide...

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

You know, it just hit me ... notice how all these lunatics claim
America faked the moon landing, but no one ... NO ONE accusses the
Soviets of faking Gregarin's flight ... or Titov's space walk ... or
any other Soviet space triumph!

OM om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_researc h_facility.org wrote in message . ..
On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:49:34 GMT, David Higgins
wrote:

Commentator Non Grata wrote:
On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 23:49:45 -0700, The Masturbator
wrote:

Join OM, the Maxon gang and Scott Grissom in killfile hell.

...Considering how little you contribute around here, you pedantic
misanthrope, I could care less [...]

If "I could care less", why the reply? You protest too
much, OM. :-)

...No, I don't. The dip**** changed his faux e-mail address, which is
how he got out of *my* killfile hell. On the other hand, you fail to
see that when one does in fact care less, it does *not* automatically
negate the need for a reinforcing taunt.

Bottom line: based on his lack of contributions to this group, and
considering what he *has* blathered in the past, he can quite simply
go **** himself. And if he doesn't know how, I'm sure someone can
forward him a copy of Maxson's bound volume of used toilet paper as a
guide...

OM

"JGDeRuvo" wrote in message
om...
| NO ONE accusses the Soviets of faking Gregarin's flight ...

.... which they did, but only in one rather minor detail.

The conspiracists argue that the U.S. wasn't up to the challenge
technically. But they can't speak in expert terms about that, not knowing
much if anything about science or engineering. So they have to speak
comparatively. The Russians couldn't get there. And the Russians were the
world leaders in space travel at the time (or so it is claimed). So how
would the "inferior" American space program be able to do it?

That's how the argument goes. And you can see how it would be compromised
if you argued that the Soviets were faking it too. You'd lose your
yardstick.

But that doesn't stop David Percy and a few others from bringing up the
perennial possibility that Gagarin wasn't the first man to attempt an
orbital flight. Then, having concluded that those rumors must undoubtedly
be true, they point out just how "easy" it is to fool an entire country
about space achievements.

--
|
The universe is not required to conform | Jay Windley
to the expectations of the ignorant. | webmaster @ clavius.org

The Commentator wrote in message ...
Brad Guth wrote:

... as far as this village idiot can figure...


I don't care to have my time wasted by the village idiot.

Join OM, the Maxon gang and Scott Grissom in killfile hell.

Birds of a feather and all that.

*Plonk*

ESADFM"R and have a nice day.

Commentator Non Grata wrote:



Whining dingbattery deleted

Oh poor little OM got his feelers hurt.

Live with it.

Hi Scott,

Glad to see that you're still with us. This following post is a wee
bit long and mostly of returning the favor onto those deserving, but
at least it's also another update that's worth taking a look-see.

Perhaps I really should proof read these pages, but that might take
all the fun out of it, because I usually add more words and/or
actually start to make sense.


Government lies and apocalyptic arrogance with lots of spin and damage
control opposing GUTH Venus, opposing truth.

Talk about those collective Borg like minds working their knuckles to
the bone, as in perfect cold-war harmony in order to evade the truth,
to circumvent reality and to forge ahead irregardless of the
consequences. In fair response, this page is respectfully returning
the favor, along with returning their warm and fuzzy flak by
addressing those seemingly opposing life itself, or though it seems,
unless of course it's their precious life.

Unlike so many objecting to just about anything and everything under
the sun, such as especially if it wasn't their idea in the first
place, whereas instead, I'd simply prefer discussing relevant
technology, using as few words as possible that pertain to the "what
ifs" and of whatever else that "can be for certain accomplished" in
the way of humanly obtainable goals, or learning of what simply can't
possibly be accomplished is equally invaluable, though most often
those stipulating of what can't possibly be done with the moon or
Venus seem to have little if any trouble with anything Mars or even
Earthly space elevators.

Although, much of what I'm hearing and/or receiving as flak is more
like crying over spilt milk, or of their whining over my poor syntax
or of insufficient scientific notations and, otherwise I'm hearing
just their sanctimonious justifications for sustaining the current
levels of orchestrated "spin" and "damage control". As for my
addressing such flak (returning the warm and fuzzy favor), I'll need
to regress a wee bit into their deeply physic wonderland of those
seemingly opposed to reality, which is not of any profound statement
suggesting that I'm always right about everything, as I'll gladly take
being 10% right. Since I know for a fact that I've made mistakes and,
that I'll most likely make a tonne more, that's quite different from
the perspective of those living a lie and, then further lying about
that lie (sort of like asking the Pope to discuss Cathars and, he'll
reply by saying something profound like; what Cathars?).

Here I've been offering more worthwhile topics than all of what's been
posted to date, of doable agendas that are entirely de-cloaked, as in
above-board and of all things within our expertise, as well as within
our existing technology, not to mention being relatively if not
literally moon dirt cheap, of discoveries and subsequent ideas that I
believe are worthy of further consideration. Although, all that I've
seen and heard from those opposing, yet claiming as being "all
knowing", is essentially their absolute immoral arrogance towards all
of humanity, or of at least their opposing anyone that's tainting the
likes of their cost+ go-for-broke Mars microbes, or of their similar
cost+ Earth Space Elevator quest or bust campaigns.

I have no problem whatsoever with folks believing that our NASA walked
on the moon, as I know of nice folks that still believe in the tooth
fairy and, I don't hold that against them. Unless of course, if they
were to be telling me that their tooth fairy resolved all of their
dental requirements and, that I too should rely solely upon their
tooth fairy for whatever, as then I'm going to start taking exception.
It's been only when I realized that I'm being either intentionally or
naively lied to, do I get myself sufficiently wound up in order to
return the favor. If folks honestly wanted to believe our manned space
travel outside of the Van Allen zone of death can be easily
accommodated behind 5 g/cm2, at or below 10 mrem/day, that's
absolutely super terrific, as all of our advanced long range space
travel expeditions are hereby resolved.

However, the unexpectedly vigorous opposition as to all others
accomplishing anything lunar, and of especially anything Venus, is
truly pathetic. As these Borgs are continually reaffirming their
allegiance to pagan Gods, such as Hubble hugging or even the likes
those most common of SETI types and, now there's Earth space elevator
huggers that are all seemingly acting oblivious to Earthly human
needs, as otherwise sucking up to their pagan NASA religion. It's as
though the carnage of our cold-war tit for tats and of the resulting
likes of the 9/11 impact never happened, or even if any of it did
happen, then absolutely none of it was our fault, nor was there even
the slightest provocation nor has there been distortions upon the
facts and, I suppose that analogy will have to include justifying
those invisible WMDs as qualifying the extermination of another
10,000+ souls, as simply another example that's within their realm of
acceptable moral standards, flaming astronauts and all.

I'll even suggest, that it's somehow covertly possible that by lying
to yourself about the unemployment, lying about the economy, of
further lying about their not creating a legacy of multi-trillion
dollar debts as a result of government policy that includes pursuing
humanly unobtainable space exploration, or the likes of investing into
Hubble, ISS and of going after potentially lethal Mars microbes and of
now plunging deeply into trillion dollar plus space elevators for all
of the world's great grand children of the future to have to pay for,
is perfectly OK by someone others standards, while equally choking the
rest of us down with all the excessive CO2 and of subsequently the
entire world suffering from serious global warming is somehow going to
become just the ticket these pro-NASA fools are suggesting is needed.
Perhaps the sooner our global resources are squandered, the sooner
their already rich partners in crime (like those already wealthy
cotton growers that warlord Bush is about to insure that they receive
another 18 billion dollar per year subsidy) will inherit the Earth, or
of whatever is left of it.

OOPS, I suppose now I've hurt your feelings. OOPS again, I forgot, as
a Borg collective you probably don't have any actual feelings, as
you're merely being another collective opponent against absolutely
anything or anyone that's being the least bit anti-NASA, all the while
you certainly don't seem to be offering humanity any justifiable
morality for the sorts of agendas that'll risk such trillions and
subsequently accomplishing their intended task of unnecessary
terminating lives on Earth. It's not possible to blow a trillion bucks
on space toys without being guilty of excluding those same trillions
that should have been invested on the reality of improving human lives
and, don't give me all that "spin off" crap about how spending
trillions on extreme space adventures is somehow going to benefit the
lower 90% of Earth's population.

You'll have to notice that I'm not entirely Mr. Negative, as I haven't
even suggested anything against actual Earth space sciences, nor have
I stipulated that we can't possibly do the Earth based Space Elevator,
though I have noted that it's going to be extremely expensive (at
minimum 10 fold more costly than is being specified, a bit technology
testy to say the least, plus decades of inflation that'll push the
investment package towards 100 fold), where just the return on
investment alone should push the cost per pound delivered to more than
$50,000 + operating cost factors, while still remaining somewhat
astronaut risky and perhaps decades if not another half plus century
down the road and, even if nothing goes terribly wrong, it'll still
not provide the necessary CO2 relief for delivering those necessary
tonnes of radiation shielding into GSO and beyond.

Those pushing this Earth Space Elevator agenda seem to use Arthur
Andersen for their accounting, siting only the bare operating cost
(based upon absolutely nothing whatsoever going terribly wrong), as
reason why this sort of spendy technology should be developed and then
implemented. This is much like those Mars or bust teams, suggesting
that their agenda is equally obtainable and cost worthy, not to worry
about any lethal Mars microbes, of which this might even be true
because, of those spending any amount of time going to/from Mars and
of whatever days on the surface will most likely be TBI to death, long
before they ever get their chance to return home with any potentially
contaminating microbes, rather taking up lunar residence or burial is
far more likely.

Over the past three years, I've discovered that this internet is
overloaded with forums, within such are NASA moderated folks or Borgs,
as well as countless individuals of at least ten for one on behalf of
sanctioning and/or justifying our past, present and future, while at
best there's one out of ten that are actually trying to make a
difference, actually trying to avoid another 9/11, attempting to avoid
the likes of another COLUMBIA, flight-800, USS LIBERTY fiasco and of
countless cold-war tit for tats, many of which have created a cycle of
revenge and/or compensation that's here to stay.

What can I or anyone possibly say except; For those opposing the
truth, you need to get over it:

Our government, as well as many others, are chuck full of lies. They
lie on a regular basis and spend whatever it takes to implement spin
and damage control. Large and complex national agencies like NASA are
not immune, especially when they're forced into cloaking on behalf of
NSA/DoD cold-war agendas. Even when honest mistakes are made, these
are most often rolled into some hidden agenda and/or justified by
pointing their slimy finger at anyone other, somewhat like how the
Pope avoids Cathar issues is much the same as government avoids
telling the truth about the likes of the USS LIBERTY fiasco because,
the truth hurts almost as much as it did for those which were
exterminated and/or slowly dying off due to the blatant corruption and
utter incompetence of those charged with keeping such dastardly things
from happening in the first place.

The sorts of opposition towards my ongoing discovery of other life on
Venus, obviously that's NOT as we know it, that I believe is most
likely surviving in spite of our absolute arrogance and utter
stupidity and, of the opposition to my attempting to honestly
incorporate anything whatsoever with regard to properly utilizing our
moon for humanitarian goals, is "proof positive" that I'm a whole lot
more right than not. If you still can't see that for what it is, then
there's absolutely nothing I or anyone can possibly accomplish on your
behalf.

My only advise is, never let the Pope know that you're Cathar, or in
the case of avoiding the wrath of warlord Bush, never admit to hiding
those invisible WMDs, though it's perfectly OK to being a wealthy
surplus cotton farmer because, for that there's another round of 18
billion dollar per year subsidy that'll keep your fleet of Lambergini
topped off with all the $5/gallon gas you can possibly burn.

If perchance you're less interested in all the spendy doom and gloom
aspects, but otherwise concerned about what's actually possible, as in
humanly obtainable from the existing talents and resources of today,
then this lunar space elevator page should be of some interest,
containing of what's been most recently updated and uploaded from the
feedback I've received and of whatever I've managed to learn:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-cm-ccm-01.htm

As for the cost+ Space Elevator alternative that being funded by NASA:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-edwards-se.htm

This following link is featuring the lunar based SAR receiving module
page that could always use another update, as in incorporating some of
your expertise: http://guthvenus.tripod.com/moon-sar.htm

If your interested in what I've learned about space radiation, of the
true environment of which manned space travel must survive or pay the
consequences, then this page is another ongoing build that's worth
another look-see: http://guthvenus.tripod.com/space-radiation.htm

Unfortunately, there's a great deal more to say, of which I simply
can't seem to say enough, or perhaps I've said way too much already.
For those claiming that I'm the "all knowing" culprit, or the village
idiot from hell, that's hardly the case. As more than likely I'm
somewhat like one of those an addaptive correction to those funny
mirrors at the carnival that you've been paying good money to be
looking at for decades, only seeing a highly distorted view of
reality. Now that I'm offering a relatively flat (non-distorting)
mirror of what's possible and of what's humanly obtainable, God
forbid, perhaps you should actually do something constructive or
meaningful for others.

Regards, Brad Guth / IEIS~GASA / Discovery of LIFE on Venus
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm

"Brad Guth" wrote in message
om...
|
| I'd simply prefer discussing relevant technology ...

You don't understand technology. You don't care to be taught about it. You
don't care to do any original research that you fear may contradict your
preconceptions, even when names and addresses of the participants of the
events you mischaracterize are laid at your feet. You listen to people when
they appear to support your position, but when those same people oppose you
then you turn a deaf ear to them.

| ...using as few words as possible

Economy of verbage is not one of your characteristics.

| Since I know for a fact that I've made mistakes...

Except that you never admit to any *specific* mistakes, regardless of the
mounts of evidence against you.

| I have no problem whatsoever with folks believing that our
| NASA walked on the moon, as I know of nice folks that still
| believe in the tooth fairy and, I don't hold that against them.

So you don't hold it against people if they believe in the Tooth Fairy, but
if one happens to believe that NASA landed on the moon -- a conclusion with
a colossal degree of scientific proof in favor of it -- then you most
certainly *do* hold it against them, calling them "Borg" or worse.

And in order to create the illusion of support for your criticism, you
effortlessly put words and numbers in the mouths of people who disagree with
you and endeavor to . Clearly you live in a "reality" vastly different from
the rest of us.

| It's been only when I realized that I'm being either intentionally
| or naively lied to, do I get myself sufficiently wound up in order
| to return the favor.

No. You simply don't understand the facts with which you're being
presented. And rather than attempt to reconcile the facts with your stilted
preconceptions, you take much greater pleasure (and I use the word
cautiously) in whining. You *want* to be lied to, or at least you want to
believe you're being lied to. That way your blatant incompetence -- which
must surely keep you from holding jobs with any more intellectual content
than that of a garbage collector -- can conveniently be someone else's fault
and not yours.

| Over the past three years, I've discovered that this internet
| is overloaded with forums, within such are NASA moderated folks
| or Borgs...

Rather, these are forums moderated and contributed to by reasonable,
scientifically-minded individuals who see you as the whining malcontent you
are, and soon tire of trying to correct your errors. And when they realize
that you simply post the same pompous rhetoric over and over again, and that
you habitually rewrite what people say in order to make it favor your ideas,
then they spew you out as they should have done in the first place.

And since you are "obviously" right, the "only" reason these people would
have for shunning you is that they've been brainwashed. It never once
occurs to you that all these learned people are in fact right, and that
you -- bereft of any training or expertise -- just might possibly be wrong.
Oh, sure, you admit it in the abstract, but when it finally comes down to
admitting you might be wrong on a *specific* point, you retreat into
vainglory and name-calling.

| If your interested in what I've learned about space radiation, of the
| true environment of which manned space travel must survive or pay the
| consequences, then this page is another ongoing build that's worth
| another look-see: http://guthvenus.tripod.com/space-radiation.htm

REMOVE MY NAME AND WEB SITE ADDRESS AT ONCE FROM YOUR PAGE. I HAVE NOT
EXPRESSED THE IDEAS NOR MADE THE STATEMENTS YOU ATTRIBUTE TO ME.

--
|
The universe is not required to conform | Jay Windley
to the expectations of the ignorant. | webmaster @ clavius.org

Dan C wrote in message . ..
On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 14:57:12 -0700, Brad Guth wrote:

Glad to see that you're still with us. This following post is a wee
bit long and mostly of returning the favor onto those deserving, but
at least it's also another update that's worth taking a look-see.

large amount of absolute drivel deleted

You are a seriously deluded individual. Get some help, quickly.

Once again folks; there's no specifics, just the usual null of
"nondisclosure", or "spin" and "damage control", or perhaps lack
thereof control. If you've got anything on behalf of Club NASA or of
their cold-war boss NSA/DoD, that'll hold up in court, that's great.
Otherwise sit back and enjoy the ride out of town, as that's where
you're headed.

BTW; As far as I can tell, our equipment indeed landed on the moon,
just no astronaut walked on nor returned from said moon. Getting stuff
onto the moon is doable, even for those late 60's fly-by-wire days of
our perpetrated cold-war.

If the moon is mostly of basalt, as it perhaps should be, then of
whatever bulk is required for sustaining humans in space, whether
that's of simply mass for spacecraft shielding (abating radiation as
well as improving impact resistance) or of EMPD propulsion fuel
considerations, I believe this substance is in fact available from the
moon, and of affordably accommodating such within the LSE-CM/ISS is
perhaps just the ticket, as in right here and now, not of some
horrifically spendy day decades from now and solely dependent upon
those CNT fibers taking the heat as well as the radiation as well as
whatever other solar flak, not to forget about the year after year of
dodging a few hundred thousand other not so insignificant objects in
it's path (add up the total ESE tether surface exposure and do the
math).

We can get ourselves to/from the moon rather quickly these days, thus
a timeline of potentially lethal exposure to the mostly solar
radiation has become somewhat limited, and thereby survivable within
minimal shielding, as in terms of hours to perhaps a few days worth,
unless of course you've got 341 g/cm of something surrounding your
butt, as then you can tolerate some extended mission related travel
time without having all of your DNA/RNA chopped into bits by various
TBI worthy radiation issues, that's not even to mention significant
erosion if not through-holes as a result of your impacting with a
grain of sand, of which without sufficient shielding density is
exactly where life as we know it becomes downright difficult, and/or
subsequently where your own immune system proceeds to further
irradicate yourself from within, whereas I believe there are known
limits to what having banked bone marrow can achieve.

I've learned that sending technology efficient robotic missions off
into a lunar orbit is apparently a whole lot easier if not more energy
efficient than establishing most any Earth GSO, of wich I suppose that
includes the likes of Earth L2 or L1, as those positions being more
complicated and more energy consuming to establish, whereas as sending
robotics off to visit a LSE-CM/ISS is not only efficiently doable but
highly beneficial, especially once docked and/or snagged by the
LSE-CM/ISS robotics and/or crew, as this is obviously where the final
mission configuration outfitting could take place, as well as applied
shielding of mostly moon dirt and/or basalt rock, and whatever refuel.

What we can't seem to afford to deliver directly into space from
Earth, at least not without creating great amounts of global warming
CO2 for Earth, is that of any sufficient mass of radiation shielding,
and/or of just offering sufficient physical shield density for
surviving micro impacts that are more than a wee bit testy issues for
human space flights, along with there being anything leftover for the
likes of spare fuel, beer and pizza. Eventually, decades from now,
after spending perhaps trillions, the ESE(s) will most likely become
capable of accommodating those deliveries of such mass. Though most
any ESE should be more efficient than rockets, the overall process
still offers a significant CO2 impact for Earth, not to mention an
ongoing maintenance, defense of and logistics fiasco along with a list
of "what if's" that should keep all of us on our toes.

This latest ESE/LSE report/argument needs a whole lot of work, as well
as it could use your input plus lots more expertise, as well as
medications on my behalf. Within this delivery, I'm discussing or at
least attempting to convey upon the pro/con issues of the ESE/LSE,
though obviously I'm thoroughly confused and disorientated as usual,
as I can actually foresee others and even myself being snookered
again, just like those grand old Apollo cold-war days, along with all
the dog wagging on steroids, plus all of that being so nicely packaged
into the sorts of top notch NASA/NOVA produced and/or moderated
infomercials that'll knock your socks off.

Since I'm no good at telling my stories, I may have to get myself back
into this one, polish it up and otherwise continue to share in
whatever I've learned, as well as sharing whatever warm and fuzzy
favor returning that I can think of, as I'm certain of those opposing
or silently playing along, or perhaps they're pretending at their
playing "hide and seek" because, in reality these folks may actually
be dumber than dumb (that's merely arrogance without being smart
enough for realizing it), but obviously those folks would otherwise
expect nothing less from my perspective. So, I'll keep trying to
oblige.

I've accomplished this effort as yet another of my poor deliveries on
the PRO/CON issues of the ESE/LSE. Have yourself a look-see, a few
laughs at the expense of humanity, then give me some of that "all
knowing" feedback and even flak if that's all you've got. Of course,
what's mostly in need are specific numbers, of doable "what ifs" and
of whatever inventions you can devise upon, applicable for either the
ESE or LSE. Actually the ESE needs a whole lot more help and of
trillions more of your hard earned money than my LSE, but I'll
certainly take whatever you've got, even if it's just ESE leftovers.
PRO/CON ESE/LSE: http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-ese-lse.htm


Regards, Brad Guth / IEIS~GASA / the discovery of other LIFE on Venus
Besides way too many other topics, here's other ongoing LSE UPDATES:
Basalt tether update: http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-lse-gpa.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-cm-ccm-01.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-edwards-se.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-se-flywheels.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-cm-ccm-elevator.htm