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#532
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NASA declines to protect the Planet Earth
In article ,
(pete) wrote: [I don't like your choice of prefix character; it makes things difficult to read] In sci.space.policy, on Mon, 21 Aug 06 10:10:37 GMT, sez: ` In article , ` (pete) wrote: ` In sci.space.policy, on Mon, 14 Aug 06 09:58:53 GMT, sez: ` ` [last post in an interesting subthread on breadmaking in space] snip--I may have ****ed it up ` What occurs to me as being a great food resource for meeting many ` of these requirements is seed used for sprouting. Sprouts have ` _much_ higher food value than the originating seeds, but are far ` simpler to generate than full blown hydroponic farmed plants - ` just add water and wait a couple of days. For extra benefit, ` expose to sunlight for a day before consumption. Sprouted grains can ` be blended and used for making bread. I don't know if this is now ` common in every market, but locally here, if you read the ingredients ` on about a third of the "healthier" (ie I'm not talking about ` wonderbread) loaves on the store shelves, you will find "contains ` no flour, made from 100% sprouted grains", and these loaves look ` and taste pretty much similar to regular wholegrain breads, except ` perhaps more flavourful. Seeds are obviously compact, dehydrated, ` well suited for cargo - they are more resistant to spoilage than ` prepared flour, unless the flour has been depleted of valuable ` nutrients. ` ` A wide variety of seeds - grains, legumes, pulses - and a wide ` variety of seed and sprout preparation techniques, from bread to ` chow mein to salad to soups and stews, provides a potential for ` great variety in meals, all with relatively simple preparation ` requirements. Sure it's more involved than putting the pack of ` frozen entree in the microwave, but it's not something requiring ` exotic hardware, either. Nor would I try to suggest that it would ` be the sole food source; a major component, though. ` An example that testing and refining over billions of years ` should produce more efficiency. ` YOu can't have any bugs or rats on the ship. How difficult ` would that be? If you irradiate the seed to kill any future ` meat residing in the seed, will it sprout? I'm not sure, but I suspect not. After all, you are trying to kill single bacterial cells, so what chance does a single plant-germ cell have? I've been intending to test this. Note, however, regarding bugs of the larger variety, that back in the age of sail, it was expected on long sea voyages that the biscuits carried along would get maggots - that elevated the nutrient value far beyond the basic white flour content. But that only worked because the ship knew it could resupply. The biscuits were designed to be food for the maggots. The fact that the meat was eaten while packaged by a biscuit just made it a [there a word for this..it's Irish or Scottish...and I want to say] patsy. I know this is not the right word...butfry, butty? I think, however, that the issue of keeping seed dry and safe from pests is pretty well solved for periods in the order of one or two years, otherwise where would next year's crop seed come from. Longer times might require more clever tricks, but I know that some of those already exist, such as flooding silos with CO2 or something similar, which asphixiates bugs without leaving any toxic residuals. I don't see how flooding silos with anything would work. They're packed. I sure wouldn't want to work near one that was loaded with CO_2. I suspect the CO_2 is to try to prevent combustion not kill bugs. hmm...would it prevent combustion? I didn't know you could make an airtight silo. /BAH |
#533
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NASA declines to protect the Planet Earth
In sci.space.policy, on Sun, 27 Aug 06 12:31:38 GMT, sez:
` In article , ` (pete) wrote: ` [I don't like your choice of prefix character; it makes things ` difficult to read] Sorry. I've been thinking lately I should try going back to the standard character and see if it's still a problem - I had to change it cuz UBC installed a line counter that would reject posts with more quoted than original material. I wonder whether that's still in place. Seemed sort of excessive to me. I could see if it choked on 95% quoted material, but 50% ? ` In sci.space.policy, on Mon, 21 Aug 06 10:10:37 GMT, sez: ` ` In article , ` ` (pete) wrote: ` ` In sci.space.policy, on Mon, 14 Aug 06 09:58:53 GMT, ` sez: ` ` ` ` [last post in an interesting subthread on breadmaking in space] ` snip--I may have ****ed it up ` ` What occurs to me as being a great food resource for meeting many ` ` of these requirements is seed used for sprouting. Sprouts have ` ` _much_ higher food value than the originating seeds, but are far ` ` simpler to generate than full blown hydroponic farmed plants - ` ` just add water and wait a couple of days. For extra benefit, ` ` expose to sunlight for a day before consumption. Sprouted grains can ` ` be blended and used for making bread. I don't know if this is now ` ` common in every market, but locally here, if you read the ingredients ` ` on about a third of the "healthier" (ie I'm not talking about ` ` wonderbread) loaves on the store shelves, you will find "contains ` ` no flour, made from 100% sprouted grains", and these loaves look ` ` and taste pretty much similar to regular wholegrain breads, except ` ` perhaps more flavourful. Seeds are obviously compact, dehydrated, ` ` well suited for cargo - they are more resistant to spoilage than ` ` prepared flour, unless the flour has been depleted of valuable ` ` nutrients. ` ` ` ` A wide variety of seeds - grains, legumes, pulses - and a wide ` ` variety of seed and sprout preparation techniques, from bread to ` ` chow mein to salad to soups and stews, provides a potential for ` ` great variety in meals, all with relatively simple preparation ` ` requirements. Sure it's more involved than putting the pack of ` ` frozen entree in the microwave, but it's not something requiring ` ` exotic hardware, either. Nor would I try to suggest that it would ` ` be the sole food source; a major component, though. ` ` ` An example that testing and refining over billions of years ` ` should produce more efficiency. ` ` ` YOu can't have any bugs or rats on the ship. How difficult ` ` would that be? If you irradiate the seed to kill any future ` ` meat residing in the seed, will it sprout? ` ` I'm not sure, but I suspect not. After all, you are trying to kill ` single bacterial cells, so what chance does a single plant-germ ` cell have? ` I've been intending to test this. ` Note, however, regarding bugs of the larger variety, ` that back in the age of sail, it was expected on long sea voyages ` that the biscuits carried along would get maggots - that elevated ` the nutrient value far beyond the basic white flour content. ` But that only worked because the ship knew it could resupply. ` The biscuits were designed to be food for the maggots. The fact ` that the meat was eaten while packaged by a biscuit just made ` it a [there a word for this..it's Irish or Scottish...and I want ` to say] patsy. I know this is not the right word...butfry, butty? Pasty, I'm guessing, as in cornish... ` I think, however, that the issue of keeping seed dry and safe from ` pests is pretty well solved for periods in the order of one or two ` years, otherwise where would next year's crop seed come from. Longer ` times might require more clever tricks, but I know that some of those ` already exist, such as flooding silos with CO2 or something similar, ` which asphixiates bugs without leaving any toxic residuals. ` I don't see how flooding silos with anything would work. They're ` packed. I sure wouldn't want to work near one that was loaded ` with CO_2. I suspect the CO_2 is to try to prevent combustion not ` kill bugs. hmm...would it prevent combustion? I didn't know you ` could make an airtight silo. It doesn't have to be absolutely airtight, I think. Use a heavier than air gas, and have the bottom and sides mostly leakproof. It is a bit of a hazard, now and then they lose somebody who goes into the silo without the SCBA gear. Also, it doesn't have to remain flooded with asphixiant. If you do have a sealed container, you can pump the asphyxiant in and out. Once you've killed off any pests, you should be able to store the seed viable for several years, in air, as long as you keep it dark and dry, and don't let any new bugs get at it. -- ================================================== ======================== Pete Vincent Disclaimer: all I know I learned from reading Usenet. |
#534
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NASA declines to protect the Planet Earth
In article ,
(pete) wrote: In sci.space.policy, on Sun, 27 Aug 06 12:31:38 GMT, sez: ` In article , ` (pete) wrote: ` [I don't like your choice of prefix character; it makes things ` difficult to read] Sorry. I've been thinking lately I should try going back to the standard character and see if it's still a problem - I had to change it cuz UBC installed a line counter that would reject posts with more quoted than original material. I wonder whether that's still in place. Seemed sort of excessive to me. I could see if it choked on 95% quoted material, but 50% ? Oh, good grief. Excuse me. I've a summer's full of abject stupidity. Yea, I've heard about those programs. There are days when 99% is necessary..as in contracts and signing a purchase, etc. This is just plain utter stupid. Forget my request. I'll learn to read to skip the new character pattern....although...a | may be easier. I would suspect that a ` character has a meaning that you do not intend. It used to be a special action character. I also understand why this code was written; it's another example of where the sins of the few are atoned by the many. ` In sci.space.policy, on Mon, 21 Aug 06 10:10:37 GMT, sez: ` ` In article , ` ` (pete) wrote: ` ` In sci.space.policy, on Mon, 14 Aug 06 09:58:53 GMT, ` sez: ` ` ` ` [last post in an interesting subthread on breadmaking in space] ` snip--I may have ****ed it up ` ` What occurs to me as being a great food resource for meeting many ` ` of these requirements is seed used for sprouting. Sprouts have ` ` _much_ higher food value than the originating seeds, but are far ` ` simpler to generate than full blown hydroponic farmed plants - ` ` just add water and wait a couple of days. For extra benefit, ` ` expose to sunlight for a day before consumption. Sprouted grains can ` ` be blended and used for making bread. I don't know if this is now ` ` common in every market, but locally here, if you read the ingredients ` ` on about a third of the "healthier" (ie I'm not talking about ` ` wonderbread) loaves on the store shelves, you will find "contains ` ` no flour, made from 100% sprouted grains", and these loaves look ` ` and taste pretty much similar to regular wholegrain breads, except ` ` perhaps more flavourful. Seeds are obviously compact, dehydrated, ` ` well suited for cargo - they are more resistant to spoilage than ` ` prepared flour, unless the flour has been depleted of valuable ` ` nutrients. ` ` ` ` A wide variety of seeds - grains, legumes, pulses - and a wide ` ` variety of seed and sprout preparation techniques, from bread to ` ` chow mein to salad to soups and stews, provides a potential for ` ` great variety in meals, all with relatively simple preparation ` ` requirements. Sure it's more involved than putting the pack of ` ` frozen entree in the microwave, but it's not something requiring ` ` exotic hardware, either. Nor would I try to suggest that it would ` ` be the sole food source; a major component, though. ` ` ` An example that testing and refining over billions of years ` ` should produce more efficiency. ` ` ` YOu can't have any bugs or rats on the ship. How difficult ` ` would that be? If you irradiate the seed to kill any future ` ` meat residing in the seed, will it sprout? ` ` I'm not sure, but I suspect not. After all, you are trying to kill ` single bacterial cells, so what chance does a single plant-germ ` cell have? ` I've been intending to test this. ` Note, however, regarding bugs of the larger variety, ` that back in the age of sail, it was expected on long sea voyages ` that the biscuits carried along would get maggots - that elevated ` the nutrient value far beyond the basic white flour content. ` But that only worked because the ship knew it could resupply. ` The biscuits were designed to be food for the maggots. The fact ` that the meat was eaten while packaged by a biscuit just made ` it a [there a word for this..it's Irish or Scottish...and I want ` to say] patsy. I know this is not the right word...butfry, butty? Pasty, I'm guessing, as in cornish... That's it!!!! Thank you :-). I wrote that but decided it was wrong becuase it would strip joint apparrel to drift out of the post :-). Now I can't remember what those thingies are called. ` I think, however, that the issue of keeping seed dry and safe from ` pests is pretty well solved for periods in the order of one or two ` years, otherwise where would next year's crop seed come from. Longer ` times might require more clever tricks, but I know that some of those ` already exist, such as flooding silos with CO2 or something similar, ` which asphixiates bugs without leaving any toxic residuals. ` I don't see how flooding silos with anything would work. They're ` packed. I sure wouldn't want to work near one that was loaded ` with CO_2. I suspect the CO_2 is to try to prevent combustion not ` kill bugs. hmm...would it prevent combustion? I didn't know you ` could make an airtight silo. It doesn't have to be absolutely airtight, I think. Use a heavier than air gas, and have the bottom and sides mostly leakproof. It is a bit of a hazard, now and then they lose somebody who goes into the silo without the SCBA gear. Forget about the people. I was thinking about livestock and other valuable animals. Also, it doesn't have to remain flooded with asphixiant. If you do have a sealed container, you can pump the asphyxiant in and out. Once you've killed off any pests, you should be able to store the seed viable for several years, in air, as long as you keep it dark and dry, and don't let any new bugs get at it. I read or saw somewhere that keeping pesky insects out of the wheat stores was a major problem. The right way was to introduce other insects that loved to eat the pests but not the wheat. USDA (I think) wouldn't allow that. I always thought this was nixed by somebody who was a city slicker where eating something that had bugs in it was unappetizing. /BAH |
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