Astronomers Vs Harrison (clock maker) ref Longitude problem

To Andrew

The actual principles behind the use of clocks for determining location
was never doubted as an association between the pace of a clock fixed
to axial rotation and terrestial longitudes and using noon as a means
to convert location into distance,a clock keeping the location/time of
the home port.The pace is and always will be 15 degrees per hour
exactly.

That later hybrid variations such as the shift from noon to midnight
for the astronomical and nautical day occured in the late 19th century
does not alter the fact that the Equation of Time facilitates the
translation of the natural day to the equable 24 hour day and from
there into terrestial longitudes and axial rotation.

Every single one of you here will use a timepiece that has its roots in
Harrison's genius and every one of you will use the principles which
keep the pace of a clock fixed to axial rotation at 15 degrees per hour
precisely but like your miserable and stupid cataloguing descendents
you will deny the principles and still not give Harrison his due.This
is why the Longitude story has yet to be finished.




"The log was kept in ship's time, that is, the local apparent time,
adjusted at intervals to the change of longitude: and by old practice
an adjustment was made at noon, when the officer taking the latitude
sight called "Twelve o'clock, Sir," and the Captain said "Make it so,"
(though the actual observations for local time were necessarily made
morning and afternoon). If it were necessary to establish the accurate
time of an event we should have to enquire more particularly whether
the time of the nautical day was on that ship carried on from the noon
on which it began, or adjusted to the noon on which it ended, or
perhaps altered during the night from one to the other, as is more or
less the present practice in merchant ships, though H.M. Navy keeps
Standard Time. In default of better information we may without serious
error (in days of sail) take the recorded hour as in the apparent time
of the meridian of longitude mentioned in the account, and for form's
sake apply the equation of time to reduce to civil time of the
meridian."

http://www.aandc.org/research/nautic..._and_date.html

Andrew Robert Breen wrote:

snip

The navy taught longitude by lunars
and by Jovian eclipses at least into the 1950s - my father used
longitude-by-lunars in the 1940s in the South Atlantic after
their chronometers went iffy after they dropped a shallow
depth-charge pattern. I'd not be surprised if lunars weren't
finally dropped until after DECCA and LORAN were available.

Far be it for me to dispute matters astronomical with Dr Breen, however
I do have in my possession Admiralty Navigation Manuals I, II and III
of 1938 and 1955 (BR 45). In none of these tomes are longitude by
lunars or Jovian eclipses discussed - at least as far as I can see!
In other words they were not on the syllabus for a qualified Navigating
officer. However that's not to say they weren't taught at Navigation
school - just "not officially".

Eugene Griessel

To Eugene

Dr Breen here comes from the same peevish and miserable breed that
could not grant Harrison the prize even though King George demanded
that they do,the miserable guy still imagines that Harrison's solution
is still inferior to the hybrid lunars and celestial formats that
attribute the wrong value for axial rotation through 360 degrees and
retain the stellar background for heliocentric astronomy among other
things.

"Harrison felt "extremely ill used by the gentlemen who I might have
expected better treatment from" and decided to enlist the aid of King
George III. He asked for and was granted an audience with the King who
became extremely annoyed with the Board. King George tested No. 5
himself at the palace and when it had lost only four and a half seconds
in ten days he told Harrison to petition Parliament for the full prize.
"

http://www.captaincooksociety.com/ccsu4112.htm

The King would have known that the clock lost 4 secs in ten days
because he would have used the Equation of Time correction which was
the pre-Copernican noon adjustment that equalised the variations in
the length of the natural day to the 24 hour day and was adapted by the
heliocentrists to the principles of axial rotation at 15 degrees per
hour and 24 hours/360 degres in total.

Good to see that England once had monarchs like King George and good
people like Harrison,people with authority and common sense.Today you
have neither which is why ignorant people like Breen here can still
downplay Harrison's achievement while believing in an erroneous value
* and justification for the most fundamental motion of all the Earth on
its axis.

* http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/JennyChen.shtml

You are traitors to your own people and their achievements so it
matters little what you say in my direction.

oriel36 wrote:
To Eugene

Dr Breen here comes from the same peevish and miserable breed that

I usually fo not respond to loonies - but I'll make an exception this
time:

Dr Breen happens to be an old and respected pal of mine whereas you are
a sad pathetic individual whose reputation for purveying untenable and
unscientific drivel, with zealous fervour, on Usenet is legendary. So
please return to your hutch.

Eugene Griessel

wrote:
oriel36 wrote:
To Eugene

Dr Breen here comes from the same peevish and miserable breed that

I usually fo not respond to loonies - but I'll make an exception this
time:

Dr Breen happens to be an old and respected pal of mine whereas you are
a sad pathetic individual whose reputation for purveying untenable and
unscientific drivel, with zealous fervour, on Usenet is legendary. So
please return to your hutch.

Eugene Griessel

Let me rephrase,the whole lot of you are that peevish and stupid breed
that made Harrison's life miserable and still foist the same garbage on
humanity.

If there was anyone here with a trace of goodness they would make an
effort to correct this dismal situation where fools believe that the
Earth rotates through 360 degrees in 23 hours 56 min 04 sec.

That it has been years since I outlined how the pre-Copernican
astronomers derived the equable 24 hour day from the natural unequal
day via the noon Equation of Time correction and this was adapted by
the first heliocentrists to the newly discovered principle of
indepedent and constant axial rotation at 15 degrees per hour and 24
hours in total,only the dumbest freaks would believe in another value.

You bunch of traitors still imagine that Harrison did not suceed but
then again you lot get perverse satisfaction from wrecking the
exquisite reasoning of Copernicus and Kepler,not because of any
intelligence but because you know no better.This Breen guy,like the
rest of you,could not figure out an astronomical observation to save
your lives,Harrison,what does Breen know of Harrison and what a
genuine man could do.

In article .com,
says...

Let me rephrase,

Jesus, you really are a tedious little turd, I bet you were regularly
beaten up as a youngster.

--
Craig Oldfield

On 11 Nov 2005 08:50:19 -0800, in uk.sci.astronomy , "oriel36"
wrote:


wrote:
oriel36 wrote:
Dr Breen here comes from the same peevish and miserable breed that

Dr Breen happens to be an old and respected pal of mine

Let me rephrase,the whole lot of you are that peevish and stupid breed

Why don't you children go have this argument in the playground?

If there was anyone here with a trace of goodness they would make an
effort to correct this dismal situation where fools believe that the
Earth rotates through 360 degrees in 23 hours 56 min 04 sec.

Oh, gawd, you really are a chump.

That it has been years since I outlined how the pre-Copernican
astronomers derived the equable 24 hour day from the natural unequal

So bleedin what? We don't live in the pre-Copernican age.
Approximations used in the past have no bearing on the present, except
as interesting background.

Consider the Bohr model of the atom.


--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
CLC readme: http://www.ungerhu.com/jxh/clc.welcome.txt

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Craig Oldfield wrote:
In article .com,
says...

Let me rephrase,

Jesus, you really are a tedious little turd, I bet you were regularly
beaten up as a youngster.

--
Craig Oldfield

It is because I worked and respect the men who use GPS every day as a
living and who know the characteristics of the seas as our ancestors
knew them that I can come here and highlight you and your colleaguers
as an effiminate bunch who are a cancer to astronomy and to your
nation.Prop up Isaac as an intellectual giant and you underrmine people
like Harrison who were genuine benefactors to humanity.

I have known the Bay of Biscay lows and the South Tasman Rise storms
yet most of the concerns of men who make their living on the seas and
in harsh working conditions is to protect their children and their
families.Your Saturday night brawl response is true to your effiminate
character for there is true toughness that you could not last 5 minutes
with and it shows in what you believe.

The gift of being a 'contemplative astronomer' * is now a curse in
this dismal era yet ,as a Christian,I would not have it any other way
..Physical toughness wanes but leaves the unflinching trait behind and
even if I were to stop highlighting the misconduct of effiminate and
ridiculous people who have hijacked the work of the great astronomers
and civilisations ,I would not be ashamed to stand in the presence.

Give yourselves all the titles you wish,none of you match the
description of contemplative astronomer -

"To set down in books the apparent paths of the planets [vias
planetarum apparentes] and the record of their motions is especially
the task of the practical and mechanical part of astronomy; to discover

their true and genuine path [vias vero veras et genuinas] is . . .the
task of contemplative astronomy; while to say by what circle and lines
correct images of those true motions may be depicted on paper is the
concern of the inferior tribunal of geometers"


Kepler 'Mysterium Cosmographicum'

In article . com,
says...

Craig Oldfield wrote:
In article .com,
says...

Let me rephrase,

Jesus, you really are a tedious little turd, I bet you were regularly
beaten up as a youngster.

It is because

You ARE a tedious little turd, goodbye.

--
Craig Oldfield

well my original post provoked a friendly discussion I see!!


"Mark McIntyre" wrote in message
...
On 11 Nov 2005 08:50:19 -0800, in uk.sci.astronomy , "oriel36"
wrote:


wrote:
oriel36 wrote:
Dr Breen here comes from the same peevish and miserable breed that

Dr Breen happens to be an old and respected pal of mine

Let me rephrase,the whole lot of you are that peevish and stupid breed

Why don't you children go have this argument in the playground?

If there was anyone here with a trace of goodness they would make an
effort to correct this dismal situation where fools believe that the
Earth rotates through 360 degrees in 23 hours 56 min 04 sec.

Oh, gawd, you really are a chump.

That it has been years since I outlined how the pre-Copernican
astronomers derived the equable 24 hour day from the natural unequal

So bleedin what? We don't live in the pre-Copernican age.
Approximations used in the past have no bearing on the present, except
as interesting background.

Consider the Bohr model of the atom.


--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
CLC readme: http://www.ungerhu.com/jxh/clc.welcome.txt

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