Slow Motion cables

On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 20:17:27 +0100, lid
(ChrisH) wrote:

When you first started posting it appeared (to me at least) that the
only reason you were posting was to get your sig read as frequently as
possible. Perhaps I was mistaken but your main interest appeared to be

Yes you were mistaken, and when Martin and the other Chris spoke to
me properly, I did in fact change my signature.

If your meglomania oand/or your "cyber-god" complex hadnt gotten in
the way, and you had asked me in a polite and reasonable manner, then
we wouldnt be having this discussion right now.

But I accept your apology

I realise being a petty effecious "net kop" with your false belief in
your own power has got to you, but for you to presume to tell me what
you think I am thinking really is way over the top.....

Please in future leave the thinking to people who are more suitably
qualified than you are, and we will get along just fine, although I
really doubt if you and I will take long walks hand-in-hand under the
pale moonlight, and swop spit on a romantic beach somewhere

--
---
The two most abundant elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity.
Why is the ratio of Hydrogen to Stupidity less in usenet than anywhere else in the universe?

wrote in message . ..

Its "whatisname" here...

( I really do have a name, but prefer NOT to use it, in the past i
have published some things and been ridiculed for it by the so called
" Professional astronomers", but thats for another time and place.

The point is you don't need to use your real name. Call yourself
"whatsisname" if you like. (if it's not already somebody's user
name).. Your present signature simply reads as a blatant advert.

Having since discovered it was "tongue-in-cheek", I would suggest that
someone writes into the charter that "tongue-in-cheek" questions
should always in future be defined by some sort of emoticon

I have been recommending emoticons on the groups for ages. Nobody
ever listens of course. My "tongue in cheek" comment comes under:
humourChris.B style. You either love it (as I do) or hate it (like
everybody else!)
My need for slow motion cables was indeed real. It was just that I
wasn't expecting a man selling them by the bin bag full, off the back
of a lorry. I was expecting a name of a source or a URL linking to the
item on somebody's website (as is the newsgroup norm). I also need
them at least 2' long and preferably longer.

On the other hand I do thank you for your words, because it really was
a genuine attempt to help someone, and was never intended to be as
such an advertisement.

I can understand that. It's just that we don't want anyone stretching
the boundaries even slightly. The next thing would be direct
advertising. Followed by non-specific advertising, followed by spam
and finally porn. No advertising simply means no advertising. Most of
us are probably up to our necks in spam and sick of advertising in
general. The peace and quiet of a violent argument (on astronomy)
should not be drowned out by the incessant din of advertising. It
reduces impact, constrast and resolution and is much like light
pollution.

A final piece of advice: (which you are free to ignore at your peril)
Coming on heavy with critical generalisations about your fellow
amateur astronomers is hardly likely to endear you to the newsgroup.
Now is it?
With obvious good humour you might get away with it. If it was also
self-inclusive and self-deprecating. But with your own special twist
of lemon it goes down like a dose of gastric flu!
Lose the chip on the shoulder. Lose the advertising signature. But
don't lose your 'edge'.

Chris.B

On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 21:11:41 +0100, lid
(ChrisH) wrote:


You really are a ****wit then? Fine.

Personal insults, the last bastion of the intellectually challenged..

Up until that I had you down as showing a glimmer of intelligence, but
you blew it with that remark.

Your megalomania will be your downfall
--
---
The two most abundant elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity.
Why is the ratio of Hydrogen to Stupidity less in usenet than anywhere else in the universe?

On 3 Sep 2003 14:50:19 -0700, (Chris.B) wrote:


The point is you don't need to use your real name. Call yourself
"whatsisname" if you like. (if it's not already somebody's user
name).. Your present signature simply reads as a blatant advert.

Does it?

I have been recommending emoticons on the groups for ages. Nobody
ever listens of course. My "tongue in cheek" comment comes under:
humourChris.B style. You either love it (as I do) or hate it (like
everybody else!)

Actually I thought it was amusing..

My need for slow motion cables was indeed real. It was just that I
wasn't expecting a man selling them by the bin bag full, off the back
of a lorry. I was expecting a name of a source or a URL linking to the
item on somebody's website (as is the newsgroup norm). I also need
them at least 2' long and preferably longer.

And I still cant find anyone who sells the "coiled-spring" type
anywhere on the net, the only people who do them AFAICT are a
Taiwanese company called "First Contact", they supply them to Helios.
All I have for them is a fax Number, they are NOT on the net.

I looked at the others that someone suggested, and they are NOT the
spring type, they are the flexible plastic type which are prone to
snapping at acute and obtuse angles.


A final piece of advice: (which you are free to ignore at your peril)
Coming on heavy with critical generalisations about your fellow
amateur astronomers is hardly likely to endear you to the newsgroup.
Now is it?

Yup I will go along with that, I am free to ignore it

"they" are NOT my fellow Astronomers, "they" are people who have a
hang up with the size and cost of their gear.

My "fellow" astronomers are genuine nice people who have time for
people, and dont attempt belittle them because of how little they have
spent, or the brand of telescope they have, "they" dont spend all day
arguing which is best Meade/Celestron etc...

"They" are people who have a genuine passion for the stars and the
unknown, "they" are people who share this passion with others, "they"
are people who want to help and encourage others.

"They" are people who understand the fun and pleasure someone can get
from a cheap £6.99 toy telescope.


To be brutally honest I have no wish to endear myself with people who
are so far up themselves, they would need a J.C.B. to remove their
heads.. (at no-one in particular, but hey if the cap fits).
Of course it would never get that far, because they would start
arguing over which was best JCB or Caterpillar, and then it would
degenerate into a "my JCB is better than yours, cos i spent more money
on it", and then would get so hung up on this issue they would forget
what it was they wanted them for in the first place.



--
---
The two most abundant elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity.
Why is the ratio of Hydrogen to Stupidity less in usenet than anywhere else in the universe?

wrote:


I looked at the others that someone suggested, and they are NOT the
spring type, they are the flexible plastic type which are prone to
snapping at acute and obtuse angles.

I don't want to be obtuse - but do they really snap at obtuse angles?

"they" are NOT my fellow Astronomers, "they" are people who have a
hang up with the size and cost of their gear.

This is an astronomy forum for astronomers - posts slagging off
astronomers are bound to be taken as referring to this group. Please
quote posts where people have been slagged off because their equipment
cost too little. I can't recall one. I can find plenty of posts
showing ways of solving problems and keeping your money in your pocket
- look at Martin Brown's web pages - homemade laser finders etc etc,
for starters. Why do you think there's so much interest in Toucam
Pros?

On the other hand if someone is lucky enough to be able to put his 8
inch apo on an astrophysics mount, why do you have this compulsion to
imagine that they bought it as a personal insult to you?

In practice one of the astronomers you have singled out for the full
monty of your invective does his observing with imporvised home-made
or very second hand kit.

My "fellow" astronomers are genuine nice people who have time for
people, and dont attempt belittle them because of how little they have
spent, or the brand of telescope they have, "they" dont spend all day
arguing which is best Meade/Celestron etc...

And just what is so wrong with having this discussion about Meade and
Celestron? Whatever the faults of Meade and Celestron as global
players, they have done more to make telescopic observing available to
masses of people than anyone else.

"They" are people who have a genuine passion for the stars and the
unknown, "they" are people who share this passion with others, "they"
are people who want to help and encourage others.

So why do you do so much to discourage them? Your insinuations that
the only astronomers who matter are those who can make 4p do the work
of a hundred quid help no-one.


"They" are people who understand the fun and pleasure someone can get
from a cheap £6.99 toy telescope.

To be brutally honest I have no wish to endear myself with people who
are so far up themselves, they would need a J.C.B. to remove their
heads.. (at no-one in particular, but hey if the cap fits).
Of course it would never get that far, because they would start
arguing over which was best JCB or Caterpillar, and then it would
degenerate into a "my JCB is better than yours, cos i spent more money
on it", and then would get so hung up on this issue they would forget
what it was they wanted them for in the first place.

You're blathering again. Try a little tenderness.

Cheers

Martin

--------------
Martin Frey
N 51 02 E 0 47
--------------

wrote in article
...
snip
However this does come back to point I made sometime ago, do you not
feel that amatuer UK astronomers are "clicky (sp?)" ?

Clique is the noun, the adjective you want is either cliquey or
cliquy.
Now I know you'll probably jump on me as a ‘net kop' but you did ask
"(sp?)"
g

In that they are a tight little group who hate anyone with an opinion
that differs from their own in anyway?.

Hmmm, the first part I could sort of start to agree with as for hating
other opinions – for the most part I think what is hated is the
opinions of the likes of Min, Nancy, Cagle and the like who only spout
out of their rear ends.

And do you not find that can frighten a lot of people away from the
hobby?

I find there are many things that could frighten off newbies, but this
isn't totally exclusive to astronomy. One thing is that people don't
know you so don't talk this could be as simple as being shy. Another
thing with astronomy is the technical side of it – we all had to learn
a newbie is still learning an expert is still learning. Trouble is
due the complexity of parts of the subject some people may ask a
question and just feel belittled by the fact that they do not know the
answer or the answer is way beyond them NOT that anyone is talking
down to them. There is a fear of looking daft so having had it
explained they don't ask again and just walk away.
Picture this – you like the night sky, you know nothing other than you
like it and there are stars and planets. You join an AS to learn
more, you ask a question of someone who mistakenly assumes you have
more knowledge and you find the answer too complicated – who is at
fault? The questioner – shouldn't they have asked for a simpler
explanation, either before or after? The answerer(?!) – shouldn't
they have started at the beginning and let the questioner push the
level up or did they not want to talk down to someone?
Not so straight forward is it.
Now then equipment – same newbie having got E=mc^2 explained with use
of egg cartons and washing up bottle ;-) asks about someone's
telescope. I have found there are 2 things that astronomers loved to
be asked – 1) about the night sky, most I've met love to try and
impart some more knowledge on someone. 2) about their equipment –
although they love just showing people the skies if someone shows an
interest in their equipment most could go on for days. But I have
found the same pride in the person who built their own scope on a
shoestring out of waste to the person who has spent £20K on their set
up (I'm not sure I've met anyone that's admitted to spending more).
Yes there are those that think they are superior by virtue of knowing
more or spending more, but you get those wherever you go. Yes without
them life would be better but ifs and buts don't work in the real
world. The best way to encourage people into the hobby is to be as
welcoming as possible, pointing out people's errors, with a "gentle
prod" and not over reacting but also in fairness to other newbies if
someone (newbie or otherwise) does overreact virtually slap them down.

THIS is a serious question now...

OK here's my serious answer – gibber, gibber, gibber…;-)
OK this one then –
Like any group, astronomers befriend each other – have you ever walked
into a strange pub and had a complete stranger walk up to you, shake
your hand and introduce you to everyone? No, neither have I. Because
you are a stranger people don't know you – at any meeting (whether it
be at an AS meeting or 2 astronomers who happen to meet each other by
chance one night) there is the advantage of common interest.
Okay so not everyone will talk to you at first, but gradually you will
get to know them, they you etc, etc. It may happen there is a clash
of personalities if so you have 3 choices 1) try and solve it, 2)
ignore it, if you can without detriment to others or 3) one of you
leave. These are obviously the noble solutions there is a 4th – make
life as difficult and uncomfortable as possible for the other either
by winding them up or arguing without any concern about anyone else in
the group.
UKSA and probably any established Usenet group, has a mix of long term
subscribers and newbies and everyone in between, like any other group
(be it Usenet, a club, a pub, etc.) people get to know each other they
make friends there are others that they do not like so much and
potentially those that they downright hate. As a group certain
guidelines have been agreed upon and we are happy to stick to them
(for the most part – I'm sure we've all broken the rules as some
point). Those that come steaming in ignoring all the rules, all
requests not to break them (or just to bog of), those that throw
insults and challenges, etc. will not be welcome because we as a group
have decided on the rules, we as a group have gotten to know each
other and know when someone's taking the pee, when their out for a
war, what their views are but generally can walk away from it with at
worst an agreement to disagree. But we as a group tend to defend from
attack, those we know before those we don't. Find any group and
you'll find the same.
This can only be done because we have formed a "clique".


Looking for astro bits and eyepieces?
UK Astro Ads: http://www.UKAstroAds.co.uk
BFG
snip
snip


--
Simon
51:31N 0:38W
http://www.cookie-pool.co.uk/Pool1.htm
http://www.maidenhead.astronomical.s...care4free.net/
http://www.popastro.com/home.htm

On 4 Sep 2003 06:36:24 -0700, (SimonP) wrote:

wrote in article
.. .
snip
However this does come back to point I made sometime ago, do you not
feel that amatuer UK astronomers are "clicky (sp?)" ?

Clique is the noun, the adjective you want is either cliquey or
cliquy.
Now I know you'll probably jump on me as a ‘net kop' but you did ask
"(sp?)"
g

I didnt ask anyone in particular, but thanks for that anyway, i wont
remember it though g


worst an agreement to disagree. But we as a group tend to defend from
attack, those we know before those we don't. Find any group and
you'll find the same.
This can only be done because we have formed a "clique".

I cant be bothered to quote your whole post, you know what you said,
and i more or less agree with it.
you are one of the people that appears to take the time and trouble to
read things, digest them, and understand where someone is coming from.
but more Importantly than all of that, you have shown something much
much better, the memory of being a "newbie".

Based on what you have said above, I would exclude you from the JCB
merchants

--
---
The two most abundant elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity.
Why is the ratio of Hydrogen to Stupidity less in usenet than anywhere else in the universe?

On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:29:47 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 21:11:41 +0100, lid
(ChrisH) wrote:


You really are a ****wit then? Fine.

Personal insults, the last bastion of the intellectually challenged..


That's what I was thinking when I read your previous post. ****wit
grossly overstimates your intellectual prowess and I withdraw it.

Up until that I had you down as showing a glimmer of intelligence, but
you blew it with that remark.


Oh no, really? I'm gutted you should think that.
I'm glad my first impressions about you were not in error after all.
It appears you wish to treat this group like your own personal market
place - it isn't going to happen.

ChrisH




UK Astro Ads: http://www.UKAstroAds.co.uk

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 15:48:59 +0100, lid
(ChrisH) wrote:


That's what I was thinking when I read your previous post. ****wit
grossly overstimates your intellectual prowess and I withdraw it.

You know what the more times you insult me, the sadder you make
yourself look, and you definitely proving my point about some people
being analy retentitive but keep it coming...I got big shoulders.

And I have noted and stored yet another threat from you, despite the
fact that I have changed my sig, and have NOT attempted to post
anything even remotely resembling an advert since the ONE and ONLY
time that I did offend your sensibilities.

Hmm I wonder what Easynet say about harrasment in their AUP?











--
---
The two most abundant elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity.
Why is the ratio of Hydrogen to Stupidity less in usenet than anywhere else in the universe?

On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 16:59:50 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 15:48:59 +0100, lid
(ChrisH) wrote:


That's what I was thinking when I read your previous post. ****wit
grossly overstimates your intellectual prowess and I withdraw it.

You know what the more times you insult me, the sadder you make
yourself look, and you definitely proving my point about some people
being analy retentitive but keep it coming...I got big shoulders.


I think on balance the personal insult prize goes to you. However you
are right - I should not be lowering myself to your level.

And I have noted and stored yet another threat from you, despite the
fact that I have changed my sig, and have NOT attempted to post
anything even remotely resembling an advert since the ONE and ONLY
time that I did offend your sensibilities.


Glad you took the advice.


Hmm I wonder what Easynet say about harrasment in their AUP?

LOL! Anything else to offer other than bluster and bull****?

ChrisH

UK Astro Ads: http://www.UKAstroAds.co.uk