Shuttle Replacement?

Has there been any definative decision made as to what the replacement for
the shuttle is going to be? I remember there was the X-plane with the
Aerospike Engine that Lockheed was working on (wasn't it the VentureStar?)
but i haven't heard any "here is what we're going to be doing...

Or am I opening a big can of unwanted worms here?

Sorry, i've searched high and low but couldn't find an answer to this.

-b

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 02:51:06 -0800, bowensanders wrote:

Has there been any definative decision made as to what the replacement for
the shuttle is going to be? I remember there was the X-plane with the
Aerospike Engine that Lockheed was working on (wasn't it the VentureStar?)
but i haven't heard any "here is what we're going to be doing...

You apparently missed out on the whole SLI fiasco and the OSP "shuttle
clone-a-thon".

You have to pay close attention or you'll miss some important piece of
vaporware.

The current acronymical candidate is the CEV: "crew exploration vehicle"

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/56249main_codeT.pdf


-b

--
Chuck Stewart
"Anime-style catgirls: Threat? Menace? Or just studying algebra?"

Chuck Stewart wrote in message ...
On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 02:51:06 -0800, bowensanders wrote:

Has there been any definative decision made as to what the replacement for
the shuttle is going to be? I remember there was the X-plane with the
Aerospike Engine that Lockheed was working on (wasn't it the VentureStar?)
but i haven't heard any "here is what we're going to be doing...

You apparently missed out on the whole SLI fiasco and the OSP "shuttle
clone-a-thon".

You have to pay close attention or you'll miss some important piece of
vaporware.

The current acronymical candidate is the CEV: "crew exploration vehicle"

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/56249main_codeT.pdf


-b

Now, now, don't forget that the de-facto replacement of the shuttle is
the venerable Soyuz capsule -that's not vaporware.

If somehow we could get a billion or two dollars to RKK Energia, they
could build a replacement for the Soyuz - with wings and everything.
This would match the CEV's capacity and cost far less than the CEV
program. Of course the CIA and others in the US intelligence
community would likely not be supportive of such a transfusion of
funds to an agency that as long as it survives could be adapted to
build missiles to fire at unsuspecting US citizens.

If we could resolve this madness around nuclear proliferation and get
a real honest to god agreement on missile and nuclear controls, the
good people of Earth could get together and use nuclear and missile
technology for a wide range of things that everyone would find useful.

(1) global brodband wireless from space
(2) power beamed from space, space tourism
(3) captured asteroids as industrial feedstock
(4) factories in space, cities on the moon and mars
(5) ballistic personal transport
(6) personal spacecraft
(7) Space homes
(8) Diaspora

The last step ends the Earth-centered focus of human history, and as
Arthur Clarke is fond of saying - the real history of humanity begins.
That's because when looking back on the entireity of human technical
history, the far larger portion of it will be in space.

We're priveliged to be at the interesting time when that transition is
being made.

william mook wrote:

Chuck Stewart wrote in message ...
On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 02:51:06 -0800, bowensanders wrote:

Has there been any definative decision made as to what the replacement for
the shuttle is going to be? I remember there was the X-plane with the
Aerospike Engine that Lockheed was working on (wasn't it the VentureStar?)
but i haven't heard any "here is what we're going to be doing...

You apparently missed out on the whole SLI fiasco and the OSP "shuttle
clone-a-thon".

You have to pay close attention or you'll miss some important piece of
vaporware.

The current acronymical candidate is the CEV: "crew exploration vehicle"

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/56249main_codeT.pdf


-b

Now, now, don't forget that the de-facto replacement of the shuttle is
the venerable Soyuz capsule -that's not vaporware.

If somehow we could get a billion or two dollars to RKK Energia,

And the recipie for rabbit stew begins: "First, you catch a
rabbit..."

they
could build a replacement for the Soyuz - with wings and everything.

Do you mean MAKS? If so, I agree it's the next thing the Russians
should've done, had they the money. (Though I'm uncomfortable that it
requires launch from *the* An-225, of which only one unit exists. Lose,
or even seriously bend it, and there goes your first stage. And a lot of
other people want to use that plane for other things.) Not so sure that
1-2 billion would be quire enough, either, though I'd like to be wrong
about that.

This would match the CEV's capacity and cost far less than the CEV
program. Of course the CIA and others in the US intelligence
community would likely not be supportive of such a transfusion of
funds to an agency that as long as it survives could be adapted to
build missiles to fire at unsuspecting US citizens.

Don't worry about the three-letter-agencies, Congress alone will
frown heavily upon such a deal....


[snip]

The last step ends the Earth-centered focus of human history, and as
Arthur Clarke is fond of saying - the real history of humanity begins.
That's because when looking back on the entireity of human technical
history, the far larger portion of it will be in space.

We're priveliged to be at the interesting time when that transition is
being made.


If only we weren't going into that era, kicking, screaming and
dragging out feet....

(Clarke also said someting to the effect [and for the above reasons]
that this is the only period when virtually all of humanity has the
ability to communicate with any other human being. Not long ago, the
technology and infrastructure didn't exist. Not too long from now [one
hopes, and barring any suprises in physics], parts of humanity will be
increasingly seperated from other parts, by interplanetary/interstellar
speed of light delays...)

--

You know what to remove, to reply....

Joann Evans wrote in message ...
william mook wrote:

Chuck Stewart wrote in message ...
On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 02:51:06 -0800, bowensanders wrote:

Has there been any definative decision made as to what the replacement for
the shuttle is going to be? I remember there was the X-plane with the
Aerospike Engine that Lockheed was working on (wasn't it the VentureStar?)
but i haven't heard any "here is what we're going to be doing...

You apparently missed out on the whole SLI fiasco and the OSP "shuttle
clone-a-thon".

You have to pay close attention or you'll miss some important piece of
vaporware.

The current acronymical candidate is the CEV: "crew exploration vehicle"

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/56249main_codeT.pdf


-b

Now, now, don't forget that the de-facto replacement of the shuttle is
the venerable Soyuz capsule -that's not vaporware.

If somehow we could get a billion or two dollars to RKK Energia,

And the recipie for rabbit stew begins: "First, you catch a
rabbit..."

they
could build a replacement for the Soyuz - with wings and everything.

Do you mean MAKS? If so, I agree it's the next thing the Russians
should've done, had they the money. (Though I'm uncomfortable that it
requires launch from *the* An-225, of which only one unit exists. Lose,
or even seriously bend it, and there goes your first stage. And a lot of
other people want to use that plane for other things.) Not so sure that
1-2 billion would be quire enough, either, though I'd like to be wrong
about that.

http://www.energia.ru


This would match the CEV's capacity and cost far less than the CEV
program. Of course the CIA and others in the US intelligence
community would likely not be supportive of such a transfusion of
funds to an agency that as long as it survives could be adapted to
build missiles to fire at unsuspecting US citizens.

Don't worry about the three-letter-agencies, Congress alone will
frown heavily upon such a deal....

Yes, because Congress listens very closely to those agencies and what
they say about national security.

[snip]

The last step ends the Earth-centered focus of human history, and as
Arthur Clarke is fond of saying - the real history of humanity begins.
That's because when looking back on the entireity of human technical
history, the far larger portion of it will be in space.

We're priveliged to be at the interesting time when that transition is
being made.


If only we weren't going into that era, kicking, screaming and
dragging out feet....

Well, if we don't become post-technical or precipitate some sort of
massive reversal in human affairs, it won't really matter - except of
course to us in this generation.

(Clarke also said someting to the effect [and for the above reasons]
that this is the only period when virtually all of humanity has the
ability to communicate with any other human being. Not long ago, the
technology and infrastructure didn't exist. Not too long from now [one
hopes, and barring any suprises in physics], parts of humanity will be
increasingly seperated from other parts, by interplanetary/interstellar
speed of light delays...)

Cool point - I hadn't thought of that!

Joann Evans wrote in message ...
william mook wrote:

Chuck Stewart wrote in message ...
On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 02:51:06 -0800, bowensanders wrote:

Has there been any definative decision made as to what the replacement for
the shuttle is going to be? I remember there was the X-plane with the
Aerospike Engine that Lockheed was working on (wasn't it the VentureStar?)
but i haven't heard any "here is what we're going to be doing...

You apparently missed out on the whole SLI fiasco and the OSP "shuttle
clone-a-thon".

You have to pay close attention or you'll miss some important piece of
vaporware.

The current acronymical candidate is the CEV: "crew exploration vehicle"

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/56249main_codeT.pdf


-b

Now, now, don't forget that the de-facto replacement of the shuttle is
the venerable Soyuz capsule -that's not vaporware.

If somehow we could get a billion or two dollars to RKK Energia,

And the recipie for rabbit stew begins: "First, you catch a
rabbit..."

they
could build a replacement for the Soyuz - with wings and everything.

Do you mean MAKS? If so, I agree it's the next thing the Russians
should've done, had they the money. (Though I'm uncomfortable that it
requires launch from *the* An-225, of which only one unit exists. Lose,
or even seriously bend it, and there goes your first stage. And a lot of
other people want to use that plane for other things.) Not so sure that
1-2 billion would be quire enough, either, though I'd like to be wrong
about that.

http://www.energia.ru


This would match the CEV's capacity and cost far less than the CEV
program. Of course the CIA and others in the US intelligence
community would likely not be supportive of such a transfusion of
funds to an agency that as long as it survives could be adapted to
build missiles to fire at unsuspecting US citizens.

Don't worry about the three-letter-agencies, Congress alone will
frown heavily upon such a deal....

Yes, because Congress listens very closely to those agencies and what
they say about national security.

[snip]

The last step ends the Earth-centered focus of human history, and as
Arthur Clarke is fond of saying - the real history of humanity begins.
That's because when looking back on the entireity of human technical
history, the far larger portion of it will be in space.

We're priveliged to be at the interesting time when that transition is
being made.


If only we weren't going into that era, kicking, screaming and
dragging out feet....

Well, if we don't become post-technical or precipitate some sort of
massive reversal in human affairs, it won't really matter - except of
course to us in this generation.

(Clarke also said someting to the effect [and for the above reasons]
that this is the only period when virtually all of humanity has the
ability to communicate with any other human being. Not long ago, the
technology and infrastructure didn't exist. Not too long from now [one
hopes, and barring any suprises in physics], parts of humanity will be
increasingly seperated from other parts, by interplanetary/interstellar
speed of light delays...)

Cool point - I hadn't thought of that!

It is a good time to look for a replacement, cause isn't the shuttles
due to be retired in less than 10 years from now?

Mike

william mook wrote:

Joann Evans wrote in message ...
william mook wrote:

Chuck Stewart wrote in message ...
On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 02:51:06 -0800, bowensanders wrote:

Has there been any definative decision made as to what the replacement for
the shuttle is going to be? I remember there was the X-plane with the
Aerospike Engine that Lockheed was working on (wasn't it the VentureStar?)
but i haven't heard any "here is what we're going to be doing...

You apparently missed out on the whole SLI fiasco and the OSP "shuttle
clone-a-thon".

You have to pay close attention or you'll miss some important piece of
vaporware.

The current acronymical candidate is the CEV: "crew exploration vehicle"

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/56249main_codeT.pdf


-b

Now, now, don't forget that the de-facto replacement of the shuttle is
the venerable Soyuz capsule -that's not vaporware.

If somehow we could get a billion or two dollars to RKK Energia,

And the recipie for rabbit stew begins: "First, you catch a
rabbit..."

they
could build a replacement for the Soyuz - with wings and everything.

Do you mean MAKS? If so, I agree it's the next thing the Russians
should've done, had they the money. (Though I'm uncomfortable that it
requires launch from *the* An-225, of which only one unit exists. Lose,
or even seriously bend it, and there goes your first stage. And a lot of
other people want to use that plane for other things.) Not so sure that
1-2 billion would be quire enough, either, though I'd like to be wrong
about that.

http://www.energia.ru


This would match the CEV's capacity and cost far less than the CEV
program. Of course the CIA and others in the US intelligence
community would likely not be supportive of such a transfusion of
funds to an agency that as long as it survives could be adapted to
build missiles to fire at unsuspecting US citizens.

Don't worry about the three-letter-agencies, Congress alone will
frown heavily upon such a deal....

Yes, because Congress listens very closely to those agencies and what
they say about national security.

[snip]

The last step ends the Earth-centered focus of human history, and as
Arthur Clarke is fond of saying - the real history of humanity begins.
That's because when looking back on the entireity of human technical
history, the far larger portion of it will be in space.

We're priveliged to be at the interesting time when that transition is
being made.


If only we weren't going into that era, kicking, screaming and
dragging out feet....

Well, if we don't become post-technical or precipitate some sort of
massive reversal in human affairs, it won't really matter - except of
course to us in this generation.

(Clarke also said someting to the effect [and for the above reasons]
that this is the only period when virtually all of humanity has the
ability to communicate with any other human being. Not long ago, the
technology and infrastructure didn't exist. Not too long from now [one
hopes, and barring any suprises in physics], parts of humanity will be
increasingly seperated from other parts, by interplanetary/interstellar
speed of light delays...)

Cool point - I hadn't thought of that!

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 03:33:21 GMT, Abrigon Gusiq
wrote:

It is a good time to look for a replacement, cause isn't the shuttles
due to be retired in less than 10 years from now?

The Columbia Accident Investigation Board (CAIB) recommended that the
Shuttle be completely recertified for flight if NASA intends to fly
the Shuttle beyond 2010. This would be a costly effort, far more
involved than the usual periodic maintenance Shuttles get every seven
flights. President Bush announced in January that the Shuttles are to
be retired in 2010, evidently to avoid the expensive recertification
process.

Brian

I would like to see a 4-person, half-size shuttle orbiter built, sort of like a
Mazda pickup to replace a truck.
The small shuttles would still use the ET's but wouldn't need all the
contained fuel, so they would arrive in orbit with a lot of spare LOX and LH2
for their Lunar transit. When empty, take the ET's to Luna and bury them for
habitat cores.
I sure hope that Bush doesn't read this because he might adopt it and appear
smart!
^
//^\\
~~~ near space elevator ~~~~
~~~members.aol.com/beanstalkr/~~~

Question is, will Bush still be president, and what are we to replace it
with?

If no replacement, then can't we keep them flying for now, or license
and make Souz clones? Sort of like how China is doing things it seems.

Mike


Brian Thorn wrote:

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 03:33:21 GMT, Abrigon Gusiq
wrote:

It is a good time to look for a replacement, cause isn't the shuttles
due to be retired in less than 10 years from now?

The Columbia Accident Investigation Board (CAIB) recommended that the
Shuttle be completely recertified for flight if NASA intends to fly
the Shuttle beyond 2010. This would be a costly effort, far more
involved than the usual periodic maintenance Shuttles get every seven
flights. President Bush announced in January that the Shuttles are to
be retired in 2010, evidently to avoid the expensive recertification
process.

Brian