Genesis Auger - End of Manned Capsule Worship?

(Christian Ramos) wrote in message . com...

15 apollos ?

I only make 11 missions.

Apollo 7 - Earth Orbital
Apollo 8 - Lunar Orbital
Apollo 9 - Earth Orbital
Apollo 10 - Lunar Orbital
Apollo 11/12/13/14/15/16/17 - Lunar Landing

What am I missing???

ASTP (1) and skylab (3) ?

(Christian Ramos) wrote in message . com...
(Rusty B) wrote in message . com...
On 8 Sep 2004 11:13:16 -0700, wrote:

It is not hard to imagine a similar result with a manned
capsule. Perhaps Constellation will have wings after all.

- Ed Kyle

I don't believe the Genesis had a backup parachute system that
a manned capsule would have had.

Manned capsule landings:

Vostok - 6

Mercruy - 6

Voskhod - 2

Gemini - 10

Soyuz - 89 (not counting Soyuz TMA-4 currently in orbit on the ISS,
but counting two successful launch aborts).

Apollo - 15

Shenzhou - 1

So there have been 129 manned capsule landings with 1-failure (Soyuz
1) and one
partial failure (Apollo 15 - one parachute collapsed ). Both of those
failures were over 30-years ago.

- Rusty Barton

15 apollos ?

I only make 11 missions.

Apollo 7 - Earth Orbital
Apollo 8 - Lunar Orbital
Apollo 9 - Earth Orbital
Apollo 10 - Lunar Orbital
Apollo 11/12/13/14/15/16/17 - Lunar Landing

What am I missing???


Skylab 2,3 and 4, and Apollo-Soyuz.

Simon Bradshaw

wrote:

It looks like parachute/capsules probably have about the
same failure rate as winged/reusables. What I'm wondering
is whether an event on live TV similar to Genesis, but with
people inside, would be more traumatic to the public (and
the program) than the shuttle losses weve seen. If a failed
chute happened, the astronauts would know it - and would
presumably be in communication all the way down...

Only someone channeling Bbo would wonder such a thing.

Folks with any knowledge of manned capsule systems know that they
typically have manual backups for deployment.

Folks with intelligence know that we *don't* know why the parachutes
failed and that any such speculation as you write is nothing but drug
addled fantasies.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

wrote:
It looks like parachute/capsules probably have about the
same failure rate as winged/reusables. What I'm wondering
is whether an event on live TV similar to Genesis, but with
people inside, would be more traumatic to the public (and
the program) than the shuttle losses weve seen. If a failed
chute happened, the astronauts would know it - and would
presumably be in communication all the way down...

"Hayward, this is Transfer nine five. Mayday Mayday Mayday.
We have confirmed primary parafoil failure and secondary chute
rip tangles and are descending through ten thousand feet. We have
blown the aft hatch and we are abandoning the capsule on emergency
personal chutes now. Passenger one out. Passenger two out.
I have two good chutes. Sorry about the capsule writeoff and I hope
it doesn't squash any tortoises on the ground. Passenger three
out and good chute. Commander signing off and out."


-george william herbert

Derek Lyons wrote:
(Rusty B) wrote:
So there have been 129 manned capsule landings with 1-failure (Soyuz
1) and one partial failure (Apollo 15 - one parachute collapsed ).

You are missing a few partial failures. IIRC several Soyuz parachutes
failed to automatically separated and had to be manually separated.

Both of those failures were over 30-years ago.

So effin' what?

As Derek is pointing out, any active system is going to have failure
modes, and they can always bite. Many passive systems will have
sufficently lethal failure modes too, but they are much rarer.

The only passive re-entry / landing system would be a capsule so
big that its aerodynamic terminal velocity was so low that it
would simply flutter down and thump with internal shock absorbers
or crush structure to attenuate the impact. While this is physically
possible, it's probably not operationally practical or cost effective.
I looked at them for a while and am still noodling design work on
them but I don't think they're the "right choice".

We will probably continue to use active systems, be they wings
and controls and landing gear, or parachute/parafoil systems,
and will continue to run the risk of having them fail.
Airplanes can still have major structural failures
and major systems failures despite being very mature tech.
Spacecraft are not that mature by any means.


-george william herbert

(George William Herbert) wrote:
"Hayward, this is Transfer nine five. Mayday Mayday Mayday.
We have confirmed primary parafoil failure and secondary chute
rip tangles and are descending through ten thousand feet. We have
blown the aft hatch and we are abandoning the capsule on emergency
personal chutes now. Passenger one out. Passenger two out.
I have two good chutes. Sorry about the capsule writeoff and I hope
it doesn't squash any tortoises on the ground. Passenger three
out and good chute. Commander signing off and out."

Are these the same chutes that passengers and crew on airliners are given?
;-)

Jim Logajan a écrit dans le message :
...
(George William Herbert) wrote:
"Hayward, this is Transfer nine five. Mayday Mayday Mayday.
We have confirmed primary parafoil failure and secondary chute
rip tangles and are descending through ten thousand feet. We have
blown the aft hatch and we are abandoning the capsule on emergency
personal chutes now. Passenger one out. Passenger two out.
I have two good chutes. Sorry about the capsule writeoff and I hope
it doesn't squash any tortoises on the ground. Passenger three
out and good chute. Commander signing off and out."

Are these the same chutes that passengers and crew on airliners are given?
;-)

Well, my sister and her friends once took a commercial airplane with their
own parachutes as hand luggages. They got some odd looks, she tells me .
;-)


( they were on their way to a parachute competition and didn't have a lot of
time to change planes ).

On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 22:23:20 +0200, "HAESSIG Frédéric Pierre Tamatoa"
wrote:


Jim Logajan a écrit dans le message :
...
(George William Herbert) wrote:
"Hayward, this is Transfer nine five. Mayday Mayday Mayday.
We have confirmed primary parafoil failure and secondary chute
rip tangles and are descending through ten thousand feet. We have
blown the aft hatch and we are abandoning the capsule on emergency
personal chutes now. Passenger one out. Passenger two out.
I have two good chutes. Sorry about the capsule writeoff and I hope
it doesn't squash any tortoises on the ground. Passenger three
out and good chute. Commander signing off and out."

Are these the same chutes that passengers and crew on airliners are given?
;-)

Well, my sister and her friends once took a commercial airplane with their
own parachutes as hand luggages. They got some odd looks, she tells me .

When Dryden pilots get stranded by their aircraft, they sometimes come
home on commercial airliners. Back when the aircraft were F-104s,
they too brought their parachutes as hand luggage. Not only that, but
they were wearing flight suits, etc. They've told me they got some
really odd looks as they walked through the cabin.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

(George William Herbert) wrote in message ...

Passenger three out and good chute. Commander signing off and out."

I thought the captain was supposed to go down with the ship?

What kind of naval architect are you?

"Edward Wright" wrote in message
om...
(George William Herbert) wrote in message
...

Passenger three out and good chute. Commander signing off and out."

I thought the captain was supposed to go down with the ship?

What kind of naval architect are you?

I didn't know naval's were designed; I thought the doctor just tied a knot
and cut... ;-)


--
Alan Erskine
We can get people to the Moon in five years,
not the fifteen GWB proposes.
Give NASA a real challenge