Genesis Auger - End of Manned Capsule Worship?

On 8 Sep 2004 11:13:16 -0700, wrote:

It is not hard to imagine a similar result with a manned
capsule. Perhaps Constellation will have wings after all.

- Ed Kyle

I don't believe the Genesis had a backup parachute system that
a manned capsule would have had.

Manned capsule landings:

Vostok - 6

Mercruy - 6

Voskhod - 2

Gemini - 10

Soyuz - 89 (not counting Soyuz TMA-4 currently in orbit on the ISS,
but counting two successful launch aborts).

Apollo - 15

Shenzhou - 1

So there have been 129 manned capsule landings with 1-failure (Soyuz
1) and one
partial failure (Apollo 15 - one parachute collapsed ). Both of those
failures were over 30-years ago.

- Rusty Barton

(Rusty B) wrote:

So there have been 129 manned capsule landings with 1-failure (Soyuz
1) and one partial failure (Apollo 15 - one parachute collapsed ).

You are missing a few partial failures. IIRC several Soyuz parachutes
failed to automatically separated and had to be manually separated.

Both of those failures were over 30-years ago.

So effin' what?

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

"Rusty B" wrote in message
om...
I don't believe the Genesis had a backup parachute system that
a manned capsule would have had.

There isn't any rule that says backup parachute systems have to be limited
to manned spacecraft. A backup system in an unmanned craft could be
activated by a simple timing circuit, independent of the primary system. If
it doesn't detect that the primary chute has deployed at such and such
mission time, it fires the backup chute (which ought to have an independent
power supply, etc.).

Jeff
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Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address.

Rusty B wrote:
On 8 Sep 2004 11:13:16 -0700, wrote:

It is not hard to imagine a similar result with a manned
capsule. Perhaps Constellation will have wings after all.


I don't believe the Genesis had a backup parachute system that
a manned capsule would have had.
... there have been 129 manned capsule landings with 1-failure (Soyuz
1) and one
partial failure (Apollo 15 - one parachute collapsed ). Both of those
failures were over 30-years ago.


It looks like parachute/capsules probably have about the
same failure rate as winged/reusables. What I'm wondering
is whether an event on live TV similar to Genesis, but with
people inside, would be more traumatic to the public (and
the program) than the shuttle losses weve seen. If a failed
chute happened, the astronauts would know it - and would
presumably be in communication all the way down...

And consider that if it had happened with a previous US
manned capsule, the capsule probably would have simply
splashed and sunk - a bit different event than getting
extended closeup views of cracked capsule sticking out the
desert floor.

- Ed Kyle

On 8 Sep 2004 12:46:09 -0700, wrote:

It looks like parachute/capsules probably have about the
same failure rate as winged/reusables. What I'm wondering
is whether an event on live TV similar to Genesis, but with
people inside, would be more traumatic to the public (and
the program) than the shuttle losses we've seen. If a failed
chute happened, the astronauts would know it - and would
presumably be in communication all the way down...


- Ed Kyle


In all the years of operation of Soyuz the chutes have failed to deploy
once in over
150 flights.

Besides the reason that Genesis's parachutes failed to deploy seems to be
that
the electronics never triggered the mortar. In a manned ship the
astronauts would
have a way to trigger them manually if the automatic deployment failed.
I am still convinced that a capsule is a inherently more sensible and
safe than a space plane. Both at launch and reentry.

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"John Thingstad" wrote in message
news

Besides the reason that Genesis's parachutes failed to deploy seems to be
that
the electronics never triggered the mortar. In a manned ship the
astronauts would
have a way to trigger them manually if the automatic deployment failed.
I am still convinced that a capsule is a inherently more sensible and
safe than a space plane. Both at launch and reentry.

On an unmanned ship, there ought to be an automatic timer that would deploy
the chute in the absence of the primary sensor inputs that would normally
trigger the chute deploy.

Even better would be a fully redundant backup chute tied to the independent,
backup, timer. Who says backup systems ought to be limited to manned
spacecraft?

Jeff
--
Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address.

(Rusty B) wrote in message . com...
On 8 Sep 2004 11:13:16 -0700, wrote:

It is not hard to imagine a similar result with a manned
capsule. Perhaps Constellation will have wings after all.

- Ed Kyle

I don't believe the Genesis had a backup parachute system that
a manned capsule would have had.

Manned capsule landings:

Vostok - 6

Mercruy - 6

Voskhod - 2

Gemini - 10

Soyuz - 89 (not counting Soyuz TMA-4 currently in orbit on the ISS,
but counting two successful launch aborts).

Apollo - 15

Shenzhou - 1

So there have been 129 manned capsule landings with 1-failure (Soyuz
1) and one
partial failure (Apollo 15 - one parachute collapsed ). Both of those
failures were over 30-years ago.

- Rusty Barton

15 apollos ?

I only make 11 missions.

Apollo 7 - Earth Orbital
Apollo 8 - Lunar Orbital
Apollo 9 - Earth Orbital
Apollo 10 - Lunar Orbital
Apollo 11/12/13/14/15/16/17 - Lunar Landing

What am I missing???

On 8 Sep 2004 15:46:42 -0700, (Christian Ramos)
wrote:

(Rusty B) wrote in message . com...
On 8 Sep 2004 11:13:16 -0700, wrote:

It is not hard to imagine a similar result with a manned
capsule. Perhaps Constellation will have wings after all.

- Ed Kyle

I don't believe the Genesis had a backup parachute system that
a manned capsule would have had.

Manned capsule landings:

Vostok - 6

Mercruy - 6

Voskhod - 2

Gemini - 10

Soyuz - 89 (not counting Soyuz TMA-4 currently in orbit on the ISS,
but counting two successful launch aborts).

Apollo - 15

Shenzhou - 1

So there have been 129 manned capsule landings with 1-failure (Soyuz
1) and one
partial failure (Apollo 15 - one parachute collapsed ). Both of those
failures were over 30-years ago.

- Rusty Barton

15 apollos ?

I only make 11 missions.

Apollo 7 - Earth Orbital
Apollo 8 - Lunar Orbital
Apollo 9 - Earth Orbital
Apollo 10 - Lunar Orbital
Apollo 11/12/13/14/15/16/17 - Lunar Landing

What am I missing???

Skylab 2, Skylab 3, Skylab 4 and Apollo-Soyuz Test Project
all used Apollo CSM hardware.

- Rusty Barton

"John Thingstad" wrote in
news
In all the years of operation of Soyuz the chutes have failed to
deploy once in over
150 flights.

Nope, Soyuz has only flown 90 flights.


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check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and
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Christian Ramos wrote:
15 apollos ?

I only make 11 missions.

Apollo 7 - Earth Orbital
Apollo 8 - Lunar Orbital
Apollo 9 - Earth Orbital
Apollo 10 - Lunar Orbital
Apollo 11/12/13/14/15/16/17 - Lunar Landing

What am I missing???

A: skylab
B: Apollo 13 is in the wrong category