Magnetism vs. Gravity

In message , BenignVanilla
writes

"G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote in message
...
BV I think what I posted about the mass of the Earth taking up the
space of a ping pong ball ,and the moon staying in its same orbit like
nothing happened to the Earth shows why gravity has to be measured from
the center of the Earth to the center of the Moon. Measurements from
horizon to horizon can throw measurements off. Sounds like what NASA
would do. After all they did screw up meters with yards. A 9 year old
would have more brains Bert

Interesting thought, Bert. I wonder...are there any examples in the books of
a larger object orbiting a much denser, yet physically smaller object?

Lots. Many variable stars and novae are like that, with a giant star and
a small one (white dwarf, neutron star, or black hole) together.
Didn't you see that Star Trek: Next Generation episode where they are
preparing to drop a probe into one?
--
Save the Hubble Space Telescope!
Remove spam and invalid from address to reply.

"Jonathan Silverlight" wrote
in message ...
In message , BenignVanilla
writes

"G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote in message
...
BV I think what I posted about the mass of the Earth taking up the
space of a ping pong ball ,and the moon staying in its same orbit like
nothing happened to the Earth shows why gravity has to be measured from
the center of the Earth to the center of the Moon. Measurements from
horizon to horizon can throw measurements off. Sounds like what NASA
would do. After all they did screw up meters with yards. A 9 year old
would have more brains Bert

Interesting thought, Bert. I wonder...are there any examples in the books
of
a larger object orbiting a much denser, yet physically smaller object?

Lots. Many variable stars and novae are like that, with a giant star and
a small one (white dwarf, neutron star, or black hole) together.
Didn't you see that Star Trek: Next Generation episode where they are
preparing to drop a probe into one?

I guess I need to rent some reference materials from Netflix.

BV.
www.iheartmypond.com

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 16:54:32 -0500, G=EMC^2 Glazier wrote:

Hi BV Interesting thought comes to mind. When our sun uses up its fusion
material and tries to burn iron in its core(iron is to strong an atom) its
horizon expands out as far as Jupiter. My question is "would the inner
planets Mercury Earth and Mars be pushed out of orbit"? Would it be the
end of our solar system? Our would everything return to normal when the
sun shrinks all the way back to become a long lasting white dwarf. Maybe
that would give the Earth another chance for life. Bert PS It would seem
what causes the sun to expand would be a great push back by electrons that
gravity is trying to compress. That is our sun's final force to overcome
the ever present compression force of gravity. It seems to fit Bert


I was under the impression that the atmospheres of the planets that get
engulfed by the sun, will be burned off. I also suspect that the sun's
atmosphere will expand too fast for the planets themsleves to have much
time to move from their (at the time) current orbits.

Here's a thought though, is it likely that Jupiters atmosphere will be
ignited by the sun going nova?

Dat's Me wrote:

I was under the impression that the atmospheres of the planets that get
engulfed by the sun, will be burned off. I also suspect that the sun's
atmosphere will expand too fast for the planets themsleves to have much
time to move from their (at the time) current orbits.

The earth and the inner planets will most likely be vaporized
completely, after being stripped of their atmospheres (Mercury has
next to none to start with).

Here's a thought though, is it likely that Jupiters atmosphere will be
ignited by the sun going nova?

The sun won't "go nova": novae are only found in multiple-star
systems, and the sun is much too small to become a supernova. When it
becomes a red giant it might blow some of Jupiter's atmosphere away,
but I can't see it "igniting" it: although there's lots of fuel
there's very little oxidant.

--
Odysseus

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 04:26:44 +0000, Odysseus wrote:

Dat's Me wrote:

I was under the impression that the atmospheres of the planets that get
engulfed by the sun, will be burned off. I also suspect that the sun's
atmosphere will expand too fast for the planets themsleves to have much
time to move from their (at the time) current orbits.

The earth and the inner planets will most likely be vaporized completely,
after being stripped of their atmospheres (Mercury has next to none to
start with).

I thought so but, wanted to be generous (especially in Earth/Mars case,
reasonably far from sun.

Here's a thought though, is it likely that Jupiters atmosphere will be
ignited by the sun going nova?

The sun won't "go nova": novae are only found in multiple-star systems,
and the sun is much too small to become a supernova. When it becomes a red
giant it might blow some of Jupiter's atmosphere away, but I can't see it
"igniting" it: although there's lots of fuel there's very little oxidant.

I thought a nova was an exploding star (That _is_ what's going to happen
to ours isn't it?), I puposely did _not_ say "Supernova".

Dat's Me wrote:

I thought a nova was an exploding star (That _is_ what's going to happen
to ours isn't it?), I puposely did _not_ say "Supernova".

Well, not really. The sun will continue to be fairly stable over the next few
billion years, but eventually, its core will become temporarily depleted of
fusable Hydrogen. This will cause the core to begin to contract under its own
weight, increasing the core temperature and raising the temperature of the
hydrogen fusing in a thick "shell" just outside of the core. This will cause
fusion reaction rates to increase and will cause the atmosphere of the sun to
slowly expand, turning the sun into a red giant star. The Sun doesn't
explode, but it does get a lot larger in size, swallowing Mercury and Venus,
and possibly, even the Earth. Eventually, after a flirtation with Helium
fusion in its core, the sun may puff off parts of its atmosphere forming a
planetary nebula, while the core and shell fusion reactions finally shut down
for good. Our sun will then finally contract into a small object known as a
"white dwarf", where it will radiate away its remaining heat for many billions
of years.
A nova is a whole different thing. It is a binary star system where a
normal star is in a very close orbit around a white dwarf star which has
finished the active portion of its life. The star is close enough to the
white dwarf so that portions of its outer atmosphere (mainly Hydrogen)
actually begins to stream over towards the white dwarf, eventually collecting
around or on it. When enough of this material builds up on the white dwarf,
it suddenly begins fusion rapidly, resulting in a violent explosion. Clear
skies to you.
--
David W. Knisely
Prairie Astronomy Club: http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
Hyde Memorial Observatory: http://www.hydeobservatory.info/

**********************************************
* Attend the 11th Annual NEBRASKA STAR PARTY *
* July 18-23, 2004, Merritt Reservoir *
* http://www.NebraskaStarParty.org *
**********************************************

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 00:34:56 -0600, David Knisely wrote:

Dat's Me wrote:

I thought a nova was an exploding star (That _is_ what's going to happen
to ours isn't it?), I puposely did _not_ say "Supernova".

Well, not really. The sun will continue to be fairly stable over the next
few billion years, but eventually, its core will become temporarily
depleted of fusable Hydrogen. This will cause the core to begin to
contract under its own weight, increasing the core temperature and raising
the temperature of the hydrogen fusing in a thick "shell" just outside of
the core. This will cause fusion reaction rates to increase and will
cause the atmosphere of the sun to slowly expand, turning the sun into a
red giant star. The Sun doesn't explode, but it does get a lot larger in
size, swallowing Mercury and Venus, and possibly, even the Earth.
Eventually, after a flirtation with Helium fusion in its core, the sun may
puff off parts of its atmosphere forming a planetary nebula, while the
core and shell fusion reactions finally shut down for good. Our sun will
then finally contract into a small object known as a "white dwarf", where
it will radiate away its remaining heat for many billions of years.

You say slowly. Define slowly, weeks, months, years or longer? I said (in
response to Bert's question) that it'd probably be too rapid to affect the
orbits of any planets (not destroyed out-right - this part not said). Is
that the case or, perhaps, there won't be enough energy to alter the
orbits of that amount of mass. Or am I wrong here too & the planets may be
"pushed" into larger orbits, what's the answer to Bert's question?

A nova is a whole different thing. It is a binary star system where
a
normal star is in a very close orbit around a white dwarf star which has
finished the active portion of its life. The star is close enough to the
white dwarf so that portions of its outer atmosphere (mainly Hydrogen)
actually begins to stream over towards the white dwarf, eventually
collecting around or on it. When enough of this material builds up on the
white dwarf, it suddenly begins fusion rapidly, resulting in a violent
explosion. Clear skies to you.

Thank you for the explanation! Does the process that's going to happen to
Sol have a name then?

Dat's Me wrote:

You say slowly. Define slowly, weeks, months, years or longer?

Much longer (thousands or millions of years). It is gradual, as the sun goes
from its normal "main sequence" status to "sub-giant" status over time and
then on to the full red giant phase. The sun's luminosity is increasing
*very* slightly, althought the increase is too small to accurately measure at
the present time. However, in around a billion years or so, the increase will
probably be enough to evaporate the oceans, and it will probably be a little
too hot on Earth for life to exist on the surface, although the planet will
still continue to exist at least until the point where the sun will finally
bloat into a red giant. A couple of billion years after that, the rate of
energy output from the sun will begin to increase somewhat more rapidly than
before, and the sun will begin to "evolve" off what is known as the "main
sequence" on its way to red-gianthood.

I said (in
response to Bert's question) that it'd probably be too rapid to affect the
orbits of any planets (not destroyed out-right - this part not said). Is
that the case or, perhaps, there won't be enough energy to alter the
orbits of that amount of mass. Or am I wrong here too & the planets may be
"pushed" into larger orbits, what's the answer to Bert's question?

The orbits will only be affected very slightly (with the exception of Mercury,
Venus, and perhaps the Earth, which will be consumed by the outer atmosphere
of the red-giant sun).

Does the process that's going to happen to
Sol have a name then?

Yes, when the sun starts to really increase its energy output in response to
the changes occuring in its core, it is said to be "evolving off the
main-sequence". The "main sequence" term refers to the sun's location along a
well-defined strip of the Hertzsprung-Russel diagram, which plots luminosity
of a star against its spectral type (or its "color index"). Clear skies to
you.
--
David W. Knisely
Prairie Astronomy Club: http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
Hyde Memorial Observatory: http://www.hydeobservatory.info/

**********************************************
* Attend the 11th Annual NEBRASKA STAR PARTY *
* July 18-23, 2004, Merritt Reservoir *
* http://www.NebraskaStarParty.org *
**********************************************

The expansion of the sun in its red giant stage is interesting because
red is the spectrum of iron. It seems in this future spacetime where
the sun has burned atoms of elements to fuse once it reaches the element
iron its core can heat iron but can never fuse it One could easily come
up with a theory iron does not decay(I just did) I could theorize that
the element iron is released by our sun when it expands,and after
getting rid of most of this iron it can shrink back to a small star with
a lot of density,and becomes stable,This very small star releasing
photons in every wave length.(white light) Since White Dwarfs are
bright and long lasting,and 90% of stars like our sun out there in their
life time create them than it is easy to theorize White Dwarf stars
could have solar systems,and planets with organic life.??????
Bert

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:34:55 -0500, G=EMC^2 Glazier wrote:

The expansion of the sun in its red giant stage is interesting because red
is the spectrum of iron. It seems in this future spacetime where the sun
has burned atoms of elements to fuse once it reaches the element iron its
core can heat iron but can never fuse it One could easily come up with a
theory iron does not decay(I just did) I could theorize that the element
iron is released by our sun when it expands,and after getting rid of most
of this iron it can shrink back to a small star with a lot of density,and
becomes stable,This very small star releasing photons in every wave
length.(white light) Since White Dwarfs are bright and long lasting,and
90% of stars like our sun out there in their life time create them than it
is easy to theorize White Dwarf stars could have solar systems,and planets
with organic life.?????? Bert

I seem to remember reading somewhere (thought it was an astronomy book I
have - can't find the reference, so it may have been a science fiction
novel movie) that one of the moons of Jupiter could potentially be a
second home to man, after the Sun started to swell and cooked Earth.