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#12
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Time to Think ?Horizontal? for Future Space Launches
William Mook wrote:
On Sep 22, 1:16 pm, Jeff Findley wrote: In article 615e349f-7cd7-47a8-bf77-86457df7ef22 @i4g2000prf.googlegroups.com, says... Reusable boosters are smaller lighter and less costly - according to Lockheed. http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,220472,00.html VTOVL is the way to go. http://www.scribd.com/doc/30943696/ETDHLRLV to launch significant payloads cheaply. http://www.scribd.com/doc/35439593/S...-Satellite-GEO Do you really have to thread-jack at every opportunity to push your napkin drawings? No rational person here is taking you seriously. Jeff -- The only decision you'll have to make is Who goes in after the snake in the morning? Why do you care Jeff? Because it's damn annoying and rude. -- Greg Moore Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC. |
#13
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Time to Think ¡Horizontal¢ for Future Space Launches
Pat Flannery wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote: It's just like the mountain based rail launcher on the old puppet show Fireball XL-5! I liked that show just as much as All Thunderbrids Are Go. I always wanted to see the far side of that mountain where the hundreds of JATO booster sleds lay, rusting slowly away. I figure the version of Cheyanne Mountain from "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" was on the othe side - There is no Cheyanne Mountain. "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow". "This is wrong" quote ... |
#14
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Time to Think ‘Horizontal’ for Future Space Launches
On Sep 21, 12:46*pm, Doug Freyburger wrote:
It's just like the mountain based rail launcher on the old puppet show Fireball XL-5! *I liked that show just as much as All Thunderbrids Are Go. The idea of launching a rocket on rails has a long pedigree. It was mentioned in the Venus novels of Edgar Rice Burroughs. It featured in the movie When Worlds Collide. And then there was the German propaganda film from 1937, "Weltraumschiff 1 Startet". I presume this meme started with Goddard, but a quick Google search hasn't turned up its origin just yet. John Savard |
#15
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Time to Think ?Horizontal? for Future Space Launches
On 9/22/2010 12:18 PM, Jeff Findley wrote:
That vertical landing on a mobile landing platform by those tail sitters was abandoned in the 1950's for a reason. The transition from horizontal to vertical flight was tricky, and the actual "landing" onto those platforms was even trickier. The Convair Pogo could be landed on any flat surface, but its one vertical landing left its test pilot so spooked by the process that he felt he was lucky to be alive, and they never tried it again. When the French tried in in their straight-out-of-"Thunderbirds" SNECMA Coléoptère, the result was the aircraft going out of control and the pilot ejecting. Pat |
#16
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Time to Think ?Horizontal? for Future Space Launches
On Sep 22, 8:04*pm, Pat Flannery wrote:
On 9/22/2010 12:18 PM, Jeff Findley wrote: That vertical landing on a mobile landing platform by those tail sitters was abandoned in the 1950's for a reason. *The transition from horizontal to vertical flight was tricky, and the actual "landing" onto those platforms was even trickier. The Convair Pogo could be landed on any flat surface, but its one vertical landing left its test pilot so spooked by the process that he felt he was lucky to be alive, and they never tried it again. When the French tried in in their straight-out-of-"Thunderbirds" SNECMA Coléoptère, the result was the aircraft going out of control and the pilot ejecting. Pat The tail sitting system is well defined and modern avionics and computing obviates any concern over the legends you repeat here without any analysis. VTOL aircraft like the Harrier had similar teething difficulties which were addressed by improved avionics and computer control. |
#17
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Time to Think ?Horizontal? for Future Space Launches
On Sep 22, 11:57*pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
William Mook wrote: My system uses an inflatable thermal protection system to slow below sonic speeds and fold away wings when gliding below the speed of sound. * A tow plane flying down-range snags the booster as it is gliding down-range with a tow line and tows it back to the launch center. *There the booster is released. *The engine re-starts at a low thrust setting, as the booster climbs into vertical position. *It then settles down tail first, like the old tail sitters from the 1950s - on a mobile landing platform. *The wings and thermal systems retract and the booster is readied for another launch. And all you need is a few thousand tons of unobtanium to go with your handwavium and you'll be able to implement your crayon drawings. -- "Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is *only stupid." * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Heinrich Heine Nonsense |
#18
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Time to Think ?Horizontal? for Future Space Launches
On Sep 22, 5:22*pm, "Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)"
wrote: William Mook wrote: On Sep 22, 1:16 pm, Jeff Findley wrote: In article 615e349f-7cd7-47a8-bf77-86457df7ef22 @i4g2000prf.googlegroups.com, says... Reusable boosters are smaller lighter and less costly - according to Lockheed. http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,220472,00.html VTOVL is the way to go. http://www.scribd.com/doc/30943696/ETDHLRLV to launch significant payloads cheaply. http://www.scribd.com/doc/35439593/S...-Satellite-GEO Do you really have to thread-jack at every opportunity to push your napkin drawings? No rational person here is taking you seriously. Jeff -- The only decision you'll have to make is Who goes in after the snake in the morning? Why do you care Jeff? Because it's damn annoying and rude. -- Greg Moore Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC. I agree, Jeff Pat and Fred are damn annoying and rude. My comment was relevant to the horizontal take off and landing statement. I don't see how that can be annoying and rude. |
#19
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Time to Think ‘Horizontal’ for Future Space Launches
On 22/09/2010 1:55 AM, wrote:
"Is firing a rocket from the ground straight up into space the right way to do things? It sure was in the 1950s and ‘60s and it persists today. But it’s still expensive, fraught with technical risk and dwindling into obsolescence. There could be an alternative on the horizon, however, that incorporates the concepts of railguns, scram jets and kinetic launching into an innovative, reusable space launch system for unmanned cargo." See: http://defensetech.org/2010/09/21/ti...pace-launches/ Thing is, you need a structure strong enough to tolerate the aerodynamic forces of whatever speed the launch rail gives at its end point, but then you need to carry that structure to up to where the second stage is released, or orbit if you're going for SSTO. Sylvia. |
#20
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Time to Think ?Horizontal? for Future Space Launches
In article d82da96a-39ad-47b2-915d-c97befe360f8
@x18g2000pro.googlegroups.com, says... I agree, Jeff Pat and Fred are damn annoying and rude. My comment was relevant to the horizontal take off and landing statement. I don't see how that can be annoying and rude. It wasn't relevant. Your napkin drawing takes off vertically and ultimately lands vertically. It is not a horizontal take off and horizontal landing vehicle, so your post was a clear thread-jack. Jeff -- The only decision you'll have to make is Who goes in after the snake in the morning? |
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