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Speed of light is variable says Einstein
On 11 Aug, 21:59, Tom Roberts wrote:
qbit wrote: "Tom Roberts" wrote That 1911 article was documenting a portion of Einstein's arduous trek from SR to GR. The above formula does not hold in GR, The above formula of Einstein from the year 1911 is indeed wrong. Do you happen to know what the correct formula is instead that's get used in GR? There is not a single formula, there is only a procedu A measurement of the speed of light necessarily has two synchronized clocks, a light source at one clock, a light detector at the other clock, and a ruler laid along the light path. Roberts Roberts if you continue teaching idiocies of this kind, even the silliest zombies in Einstein criminal cult will stop believing you. Whoever told you that a physical quantity can only be measured DIRECTLY? Even undegraduates would tell you Roberts Roberts that the speed of light could be measured INDIRECTLY, e.g. by measuring the gravitational redshift factor: http://www.blazelabs.com/f-g-gcont.asp "The first confirmation of a long range variation in the speed of light travelling in space came in 1964. Irwin Shapiro, it seems, was the first to make use of a previously forgotten facet of general relativity theory -- that the speed of light is reduced when it passes through a gravitational field....Faced with this evidence, Einstein stated:"In the second place our result shows that, according to the general theory of relativity, the law of the constancy of the velocity of light in vacuo, which constitutes one of the two fundamental assumptions in the special theory of relativity and to which we have already frequently referred, cannot claim any unlimited validity. A curvature of rays of light can only take place when the velocity of propagation of light varies with position."......Today we find that since the Special Theory of Relativity unfortunately became part of the so called mainstream science, it is considered a sacrilege to even suggest that the speed of light be anything other than a constant. This is somewhat surprising since even Einstein himself suggested in a paper "On the Influence of Gravitation on the Propagation of Light," Annalen der Physik, 35, 1911, that the speed of light might vary with the gravitational potential. Indeed, the variation of the speed of light in a vacuum or space is explicitly shown in Einstein's calculation for the angle at which light should bend upon the influence of gravity. One can find his calculation in his paper. The result is c'=c(1+V/c^2) where V is the gravitational potential relative to the point where the measurement is taken. 1+V/c^2 is also known as the GRAVITATIONAL REDSHIFT FACTOR." To compute/predict the outcome, one specifies how the clocks are synchronized, and also the particular null geodesic followed by the light from source to detector; one integrates the metric over the paths of the two clocks from their synchronization to their respective emission and detection events, and then takes the ratio of the ruler distance to the time difference. Why isn't there a formula? Because the speed of light over a non-local path is not a fundamental aspect of the theory. It is possible to prove that in the limit of zero distance with Einstein synchronization this procedure yields the value c, in agreement with SR; this is independent of location, gravitation, or anything else. If the light path is so large (compared to the curvature of the manifold) that no single coordinate system can cover the entire measurement, the whole notion of "speed" is meaningless. And Einstein zombie world is speechless Roberts Roberts. I can only repeat: Bravo Roberts bravo Tom bravo Albert Einstein of our generation (Hawking is no longer the Albert Einstein of our generation etc.)! Pentcho Valev |
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Speed of light is variable says Einstein
Measured light speeds:
Birge, 1929, 299.796 km/sec Mittelstaedt, 1928, 299.778+-20 Michelson et al., 1932, 299.774+-11 Michelson et al., 1935, 299.774+-4 Anderson, 1937, 299.771+-10 Huttel, 1940, 299.771+-10 Anderson, 1941, 299.776+-6 Birge, 1941, 299.776+-4 Dorsey, 1945, 299.773+-10 Since 1972 the speed of light is DEFINED at 299.792.458+-0.001, NOT measured. No effort to measure the speed will be made since then. Moreover, the meter and second are both defined based on the speed of light, so no change in the speed of light can be measured anymore! |
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Speed of light is variable says Einstein
Dear DDP3000:
wrote in message ps.com... Measured light speeds: Roemer 1675 Birge, 1929, 299.796 km/sec Mittelstaedt, 1928, 299.778+-20 Michelson et al., 1932, 299.774+-11 Michelson et al., 1935, 299.774+-4 Anderson, 1937, 299.771+-10 Huttel, 1940, 299.771+-10 Anderson, 1941, 299.776+-6 Birge, 1941, 299.776+-4 Dorsey, 1945, 299.773+-10 Since 1972 the speed of light is DEFINED at 299.792.458+-0.001, NOT measured. No effort to measure the speed will be made since then. Actually 1983 was when it was established as a constant, rather than derived from a manmade length standard. http://www.mel.nist.gov/div821/museum/timeline.htm Moreover, the meter and second are both defined based on the speed of light, No, the second is not defined by the "speed of light", but by a stochastic process where light is emitted. so no change in the speed of light can be measured anymore! True. David A. Smith |
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Speed of light is variable says Einstein
"N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" wrote in message
... Dear DDP3000: wrote in message ps.com... Measured light speeds: Roemer 1675 Birge, 1929, 299.796 km/sec Mittelstaedt, 1928, 299.778+-20 Michelson et al., 1932, 299.774+-11 Michelson et al., 1935, 299.774+-4 Anderson, 1937, 299.771+-10 Huttel, 1940, 299.771+-10 Anderson, 1941, 299.776+-6 Birge, 1941, 299.776+-4 Dorsey, 1945, 299.773+-10 Since 1972 the speed of light is DEFINED at 299.792.458+-0.001, NOT measured. No effort to measure the speed will be made since then. Actually 1983 was when it was established as a constant, rather than derived from a manmade length standard. http://www.mel.nist.gov/div821/museum/timeline.htm Moreover, the meter and second are both defined based on the speed of light, No, the second is not defined by the "speed of light", but by a stochastic process where light is emitted. so no change in the speed of light can be measured anymore! True. Only if you assume light always travels at speed 'c'. If light travels (say) slower in one situation than another, then you would be able to measure a difference depending on which particular light you used as your standard. |
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Speed of light is variable says Einstein
On Aug 19, 8:56 am, "Jeckyl" wrote:
"N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" wrote in ... Dear DDP3000: wrote in message ups.com... Measured light speeds: Roemer 1675 Birge, 1929, 299.796 km/sec Mittelstaedt, 1928, 299.778+-20 Michelson et al., 1932, 299.774+-11 Michelson et al., 1935, 299.774+-4 Anderson, 1937, 299.771+-10 Huttel, 1940, 299.771+-10 Anderson, 1941, 299.776+-6 Birge, 1941, 299.776+-4 Dorsey, 1945, 299.773+-10 Since 1972 the speed of light is DEFINED at 299.792.458+-0.001, NOT measured. No effort to measure the speed will be made since then. Actually 1983 was when it was established as a constant, rather than derived from a manmade length standard. http://www.mel.nist.gov/div821/museum/timeline.htm Moreover, the meter and second are both defined based on the speed of light, No, the second is not defined by the "speed of light", but by a stochastic process where light is emitted. so no change in the speed of light can be measured anymore! True. Only if you assume light always travels at speed 'c'. If light travels (say) slower in one situation than another, then you would be able to measure a difference depending on which particular light you used as your standard.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Von Friesen, On the values of fundamental atomic constants and Petly, The fundamental physical constants and the frontiers of metrology |
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Speed of light is variable says Einstein
On Aug 19, 6:10 am, "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)"
wrote: Dear DDP3000: wrote in message ps.com... Measured light speeds: Roemer 1675 Birge, 1929, 299.796 km/sec Mittelstaedt, 1928, 299.778+-20 Michelson et al., 1932, 299.774+-11 Michelson et al., 1935, 299.774+-4 Anderson, 1937, 299.771+-10 Huttel, 1940, 299.771+-10 Anderson, 1941, 299.776+-6 Birge, 1941, 299.776+-4 Dorsey, 1945, 299.773+-10 Since 1972 the speed of light is DEFINED at 299.792.458+-0.001, NOT measured. No effort to measure the speed will be made since then. Actually 1983 was when it was established as a constant, rather than derived from a manmade length standard.http://www.mel.nist.gov/div821/museum/timeline.htm Moreover, the meter and second are both defined based on the speed of light, No, the second is not defined by the "speed of light", but by a stochastic process where light is emitted. Actually this is more accurate, but in order to to make the observation and the measurement a constant c is assumed. so no change in the speed of light can be measured anymore! True. David A. Smith |
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Speed of light is variable says Einstein
Dear Jeckyl:
"Jeckyl" wrote in message ... "N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" wrote in message ... .... so no change in the speed of light can be measured anymore! True. Only if you assume light always travels at speed 'c'. If light travels (say) slower in one situation than another, then you would be able to measure a difference depending on which particular light you used as your standard. Actually, no assumption is required. Because your instrument's binding forces also cause shrinkage / expansion to match this anomalous vacuum light speed. Net result is constant c. Nature won't tell us the difference between "no change" and "all things change". There is no anisotropy detectable in light cut off by the Moon even from high z sources, and plenty of propagation time for the anisotropy to show up. So Nature has the last say. Doesn't mean we shouldn't look, but I hold out no hope for finding loaclly variable c, without a medium. David A. Smith |
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Speed of light is variable says Einstein
Dear DDP3000:
wrote in message oups.com... On Aug 19, 6:10 am, "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" wrote: Dear DDP3000: wrote in message ps.com... Measured light speeds: Roemer 1675 Birge, 1929, 299.796 km/sec Mittelstaedt, 1928, 299.778+-20 Michelson et al., 1932, 299.774+-11 Michelson et al., 1935, 299.774+-4 Anderson, 1937, 299.771+-10 Huttel, 1940, 299.771+-10 Anderson, 1941, 299.776+-6 Birge, 1941, 299.776+-4 Dorsey, 1945, 299.773+-10 Since 1972 the speed of light is DEFINED at 299.792.458+-0.001, NOT measured. No effort to measure the speed will be made since then. Actually 1983 was when it was established as a constant, rather than derived from a manmade length standard. http://www.mel.nist.gov/div821/museum/timeline.htm Moreover, the meter and second are both defined based on the speed of light, No, the second is not defined by the "speed of light", but by a stochastic process where light is emitted. Actually this is more accurate, but in order to to make the observation and the measurement a constant c is assumed. No. The geometry of an atomic clock is such that a 10% change in c would have no discernable effect in detected "transistions". Only if it fluctuated wildly within less than a second could you (ignoring many other things) be able to detect it. Or if it varied spatially, such that the light was preferentially lensed away from the detector. David A. Smith |
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Speed of light is variable says Einstein
On Aug 19, 7:27 pm, "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)"
wrote: Dear DDP3000: wrote in message oups.com... On Aug 19, 6:10 am, "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" wrote: Dear DDP3000: wrote in message oups.com... Measured light speeds: Roemer 1675 Birge, 1929, 299.796 km/sec Mittelstaedt, 1928, 299.778+-20 Michelson et al., 1932, 299.774+-11 Michelson et al., 1935, 299.774+-4 Anderson, 1937, 299.771+-10 Huttel, 1940, 299.771+-10 Anderson, 1941, 299.776+-6 Birge, 1941, 299.776+-4 Dorsey, 1945, 299.773+-10 Since 1972 the speed of light is DEFINED at 299.792.458+-0.001, NOT measured. No effort to measure the speed will be made since then. Actually 1983 was when it was established as a constant, rather than derived from a manmade length standard. http://www.mel.nist.gov/div821/museum/timeline.htm Moreover, the meter and second are both defined based on the speed of light, No, the second is not defined by the "speed of light", but by a stochastic process where light is emitted. Actually this is more accurate, but in order to to make the observation and the measurement a constant c is assumed. No. The geometry of an atomic clock is such that a 10% change in c would have no discernable effect in detected "transistions". Only if it fluctuated wildly within less than a second could you (ignoring many other things) be able to detect it. Or if it varied spatially, such that the light was preferentially lensed away from the detector. David A. Smith- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Are you sure about this? because it is beyond my knowledge, i have to take your word for that. |
#10
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Speed of light is variable says Einstein
wrote in message
oups.com... On Aug 19, 8:56 am, "Jeckyl" wrote: "N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" wrote in ... Dear DDP3000: wrote in message ups.com... Measured light speeds: Roemer 1675 Birge, 1929, 299.796 km/sec Mittelstaedt, 1928, 299.778+-20 Michelson et al., 1932, 299.774+-11 Michelson et al., 1935, 299.774+-4 Anderson, 1937, 299.771+-10 Huttel, 1940, 299.771+-10 Anderson, 1941, 299.776+-6 Birge, 1941, 299.776+-4 Dorsey, 1945, 299.773+-10 Since 1972 the speed of light is DEFINED at 299.792.458+-0.001, NOT measured. No effort to measure the speed will be made since then. Actually 1983 was when it was established as a constant, rather than derived from a manmade length standard. http://www.mel.nist.gov/div821/museum/timeline.htm Moreover, the meter and second are both defined based on the speed of light, No, the second is not defined by the "speed of light", but by a stochastic process where light is emitted. so no change in the speed of light can be measured anymore! True. Only if you assume light always travels at speed 'c'. If light travels (say) slower in one situation than another, then you would be able to measure a difference depending on which particular light you used as your standard.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Von Friesen, On the values of fundamental atomic constants and Petly, The fundamental physical constants and the frontiers of metrology eh? |
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