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Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
JF Mezei wrote:
On 2017-07-03 16:14, Jeff Findley wrote: Actually if the 3D printed part replaces many other parts (e.g. SuperDraco engines) then it's faster to print than it is to manufacture and assemble all those other parts. Am thinking 3D printing would have uses making moulds/mandrels for complex composite parts (which would then be far stronger than the plastic 3D printed moulds). Uh, 3D printing hasn't been limited to plastics for a very long time. SpaceX is directly printing rocket engine combustion chambers. They're not made of plastic. Once done, you can melt the plastic to get it out of places where it normally couldn't get out. Why even involve 3D printing if you're then going to throw it away by reverting to casting parts? -- "Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar territory." --G. Behn |
#13
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Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
In sci.physics Fred J. McCall wrote:
wrote: In sci.physics Fred J. McCall wrote: wrote: My estimate is that for all things manufactured parts that can be made cheaper and faster by conventional means amount to about 99.99%. And the world will only need 3 computers. Usual Chimp wisdom. Kiss my ass Red Herring McTroll. You're all ass, Chimp. You're all nasty troll. *PLONK* -- Jim Pennino |
#14
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Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
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#15
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Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
wrote:
In sci.physics Fred J. McCall wrote: wrote: In sci.physics Fred J. McCall wrote: wrote: My estimate is that for all things manufactured parts that can be made cheaper and faster by conventional means amount to about 99.99%. And the world will only need 3 computers. Usual Chimp wisdom. Kiss my ass Red Herring McTroll. You're all ass, Chimp. You're all nasty troll. *PLONK* Let me put things in terms you can understand, Chimp. OoooOOOOooooOOOOoooOO. -- You are What you do When it counts. |
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Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
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#17
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Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
In sci.physics David Mitchell wrote:
wrote: And about the only place where weight matters that much is in things that fly and in that case useless mass is already gone from the design without the expense of 3D printing. Have you ever looked at the interior structures of an aircraft? 3D printing is, and always will be, a niche manufacturing method. "Nobody needs more than 640K" I don't really think it's sensible to say "never" wrt technology - you're judging a very immature technology The biggest problem wrt printing vehicles will, I suspect, be the legislation governing safety. Nope, economics. It takes a fraction of a second to stamp out a sheet metal automobile body part out of standard sheet metal stock. I fail to understand why geeks think 3D printing is the ultimate answer to manufacturing when it is in fact slow and expensive. -- Jim Pennino |
#18
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Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
In sci.physics Jeff Findley wrote:
In article , says... Also, the other option that 3D printing opens up is more shape optimized parts. These things are optimized so that "useless" mass is simply gone from the design. They tend to look "organic" rather than "machined" due to their complex shapes. I've heard this called "light-weighting" parts from management types. And about the only place where weight matters that much is in things that fly and in that case useless mass is already gone from the design without the expense of 3D printing. True, the big dumb cylindrical pressure vessel may not apply but, that's not the entire aircraft. If the "mass were already gone from the design" then GE would not be pouring literally millions of dollars into developing a one meter cubed 3D printer presumably for printing aircraft engine parts. Landing gear, and all other structural moving parts, is surely another area on aircraft which could use this technology. Landing gear make up a significant percentage of an aircraft's total dry mass, so this would be a likely candidate for shape optimization and 3D printing. Again, you are talking about niche applications and landing gear are not that big a part of an aircrafts weight. Have you ever looked at the interior structures of an aircraft? Yes, many times. I've got a b.s. in aerospace engineering, so I know the basics. Many of our customers are aerospace, so I have to understand the domain. 3D printing is, and always will be, a niche manufacturing method. Handy at times, but certainly not a world changer. This is quite short sighted. I'm sure the same was said about composites when they were in their infancy. Today it would be quite hard (i.e. likely impossible) to point to something commercial that flies and carries people commercially that has absolutely zero composite content. An irrelevant red herring to the subject of 3D printing. There are a HUGE number of different composite materials out there and it has taken well over half a century for most aircraft to have even a small fraction of composite materials in their construction. Note the word "most". I can say that shape optimization coupled with 3D printing is one of the "bleeding edge" topics in my industry. It's really no secret, you can surely Google hundreds of articles on the topic. I really can't go into further details, but my profession is in writing engineering software, so I ought to know. Whoopee. It is still niche. Does anyone care about a shape optimized 4 slice toaster or filing cabinet? Jeff -- Jim Pennino |
#19
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Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
In sci.physics JF Mezei wrote:
On 2017-07-04 09:11, Jeff Findley wrote: composites when they were in their infancy. Today it would be quite hard (i.e. likely impossible) to point to something commercial that flies and carries people commercially that has absolutely zero composite content. Wouldn't the DC9s/MD80s still in use in the USA be devoid of composites? And out of curiosity, since new 737s have maintained the "type rating" of the 1960s 737s, how much of the plane can they convert to composites? (there are issues with lightning protection for instance which require different treatment, so not sure if that fits inside the same type rating). And if they are using 3D printing to create metal parts, how does that work exactly? Some pen pours molten titanium/whatever to create each layer? Or is it more laser based to cut a solid block into the perfect shape? Metal powder deposition and laser or electron beam sintering. BTW, metal powders tend to be explosive. -- Jim Pennino |
#20
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Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
In sci.physics Robert Clark wrote:
An article from 2015: 3-D-printed car could hit streets next year. Chris Woodyard, USA TODAY 4:48 p.m. EST November 12, 2015 http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...swim/75530830/ Several companies have come out with what they call "3D-printed" cars, but none have 3D-printed the most important part, the engine. This would be difficult to do with an internal combustion engine, with its high temperatures, multiple moving parts, and high tolerances. But it shouldn't be too difficult with an electric engine. In fact considering there are now miniature 3D-printers on the market for the home, an amateur could be the first to produce an entire, scale-size, 3D-printed car. And then it could be scaled up to produce a full-size, working, fully 3D-printed automobile. This would revolutionize the industry, obviously. The two most difficult parts would be the engine and the transmission. This video shows how you can make your own simple electric motor: How to Make an Electric Motor at Home - YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p2QTE26VOA Looking at the steps in the video, it appears they could all be accomplished by 3D-printing. Bob Clark ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Finally, nanotechnology can now fulfill its potential to revolutionize 21st-century technology, from the space elevator, to private, orbital launchers, to 'flying cars'. This crowdfunding campaign is to prove it: Nanotech: from air to space. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/n...ce/x/13319568/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Arm waving nonsense. You need multiple 3D printers if you need to print with multiple materials. Consumer 3D printers print small parts from cheap plastic and cost hundreds of dollars. Industrial 3D printers that print large parts with metals cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and the printing material costs more than raw metal stock. 3D printing is advantageous for parts with complex shapes that are difficult or impossible to make with other techniques but is disadvantageous for most parts that ARE manufacturable with conventional techniques as they can be made faster and cheaper. 3D printing makes PARTS that still need to be assembled. 3D printing an electric motor is just silly. -- In sci.physics Robert Clark wrote: An article from 2015: 3-D-printed car could hit streets next year. Chris Woodyard, USA TODAY 4:48 p.m. EST November 12, 2015 http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...swim/75530830/ Several companies have come out with what they call "3D-printed" cars, but none have 3D-printed the most important part, the engine. This would be difficult to do with an internal combustion engine, with its high temperatures, multiple moving parts, and high tolerances. But it shouldn't be too difficult with an electric engine. In fact considering there are now miniature 3D-printers on the market for the home, an amateur could be the first to produce an entire, scale-size, 3D-printed car. And then it could be scaled up to produce a full-size, working, fully 3D-printed automobile. This would revolutionize the industry, obviously. The two most difficult parts would be the engine and the transmission. This video shows how you can make your own simple electric motor: How to Make an Electric Motor at Home - YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p2QTE26VOA Looking at the steps in the video, it appears they could all be accomplished by 3D-printing. Bob Clark ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Finally, nanotechnology can now fulfill its potential to revolutionize 21st-century technology, from the space elevator, to private, orbital launchers, to 'flying cars'. This crowdfunding campaign is to prove it: Nanotech: from air to space. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/n...ce/x/13319568/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Arm waving nonsense. You need multiple 3D printers if you need to print with multiple materials. Consumer 3D printers print small parts from cheap plastic and cost hundreds of dollars. Industrial 3D printers that print large parts with metals cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and the printing material costs more than raw metal stock. 3D printing is advantageous for parts with complex shapes that are difficult or impossible to make with other techniques but is disadvantageous for most parts that ARE manufacturable with conventional techniques as they can be made faster and cheaper. 3D printing makes PARTS that still need to be assembled. 3D printing an electric motor is just silly. -- You are correct that metal 3D-printed parts by amateurs were only designed by them, but had to be actually printed by one of the large 3D-printing companies. Still, that leaves open the possibility that a scale-model car could be designed by amateurs to be fully 3D-printed by one of the large companies. The largest of the professional, metal 3D-printers common now can 3D-print parts about a foot across and cost about $250,000. So you can imagine a 3D-printer that can 3D-print parts, say, 10 feet across, would be 10^3 = 1,000 times larger in volume and mass, and perhaps a thousand times more expensive, to $250 million. An expensive proposition. But if it can be shown a scale-model car can be fully 3D-printed then it might be worthwhile for a large industrial company to invest in this when it would mean any car of any model could be 3D-printed on demand. Bob Clark |
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