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#11
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The First Step in Creating a Space Age - Treat Earth as a Planet
On Nov 7, 5:38*pm, William Mook wrote:
There are about 10,000 large shipping vessels that carry a total of 1.1 billion dead weight tons. *This is about 110,000 tons each. *At $200 million each this is a total infrastructure cost of $22 trillion. * These deliver 15 billion tons of cargo per year taking 45 days to cycle. We are contemplating 16 million airships carrying 40 tons each - 0.64 billion dead weight tons - having a cycle time of 2.25 days delivering delivering 140 billion tons of cargo per year - with far greater flexibility than is possible with sea going ships. *If the same $22 trillion is allocated to these 16 million airships, we have a target cost of $1.375 million per ship - in these quantities. "We" Can you be a little more specific as to who or whomever this "We" represents? Right for now it seems "We" = William Mook ~ BG |
#12
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The First Step in Creating a Space Age - Treat Earth as a Planet
On Nov 7, 5:26*pm, William Mook wrote:
Earth as a planet means Earth treated as a single entity of production and consumption. *Which stands in marked contrast to treating Earth as a divided and fractious collection of 266 nations each on their own geopolitical position defined by their access or not to resources and defined by their ability to trick, cajole or force others to hand over what they need at the expense of the rest. It is clear that despite well defined limits and options we have not made good decisions related to the development of energy resources on this planet. It is likely we have not made good decisions related to the development of other primary resources as well. So, its worth thinking of a goal and determining if this goal is at all feasible! It turns out that it may be! 8 billion millionaires is one place to start. *Its a well defined target. *We find that to achieve this goal we need vastly more than is currently being produced in terms of food, energy, wood, metals, and so on. When, we look at what the entire planet has to offer we find that we have enough - surprisingly. In the end, we look at the Earth as we might look at a space colony - and we find that we have plenty of everything to go around - if we trouble ourselves to invest in the most productive infrastructure possible and apply it as broadly as possible leaving no one out. When we do this we find that approximately 800,000 sq km of solar collectors, 800,000 sq km of green houses in the desert, a few large water works programs, and careful management of 800,000 sq km of Taiga forest, combined with the development of a yet to be determined number of deep sea trenches - connected together with space based communications, space based navigation, space based sensing, and a network of hydrogen filled hydrogen fueled UAV - creates a system that achieves the initial target of 8 billion millionaires. From the productivity of this asset we can see how our economy might adopt it as a private public partnership - allocating what Ford calls efficiency bonuses to workers, management, investors, government, and buyers alike. This is all well and good, except for the usual part where William Mook does nothing. Motivating poor folks to do whatever they can't possibly afford to accomplish isn't exactly a working plan, and especially dysfunctional if there's no actual leadership by anyone other than yourself. Do you even have a short list of who would be put in charge of what, and have any of them been contacted by you? ~ BG |
#13
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The First Step in Creating a Space Age - Treat Earth as a Planet
On Nov 7, 7:47*pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
William Mook wrote: We are contemplating 16 million airships carrying 40 tons each Each one full of hydrogen gas, just like the Hindenberg... -- "Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to * * live in the real world." * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Mary Shafer, NASA Dryden Not that Mook is always right about everything, because he's not unless you'd care to take his word for most everything, but you really need to get yourself educated past 4th grade and at least learn the physics basics before flatulating again. There's nothing unsafe about using pure hydrogen, because pure (95+%) hydrogen doesn't burn. Put it this way, it's also a hell of a lot safer than gasoline or even methane or worse yet is propane. Secondly, don't expect Mook to ever back down, because he never does. Not that you're any different. ~ BG |
#14
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The First Step in Creating a Space Age - Treat Earth as a Planet
On Nov 7, 8:40*pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Brad Guth wrote: On Nov 7, 7:47 pm, Fred J. McCall wrote: William Mook wrote: We are contemplating 16 million airships carrying 40 tons each Each one full of hydrogen gas, just like the Hindenberg... Not that Mook is always right about everything, because he's not unless you'd care to take his word for most everything, but you really need to get yourself educated past 4th grade and at least learn the physics basics before flatulating again. That's really QUITE funny! *You have no idea how funny that is. You see, I really AM a 'rocket scientist'. There's nothing unsafe about using pure hydrogen, because pure (95+%) hydrogen doesn't burn. *Put it this way, it's also a hell of a lot safer than gasoline or even methane or worse yet is propane. Well, except for that slight problem with there being all that surrounding air full of all that oxygen and stuff. *It doesn't take much to get an explosive mixture of hydrogen in air. *All you need is a slight leak into an internal compartment and any sort of spark or flame. I guess, given your guidance above with regard to 'pure hydrogen', that this never happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFptg...eature=related Secondly, don't expect Mook to ever back down, because he never does. 'Back down'? *Who cares? *He makes a Mookery of pretty much everything he touches. While you tend to just Guth things up. -- "Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is *only stupid." * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Heinrich Heine Hydrogen vapor always goes vertical and otherwise expands. In fact, there's nothing much stopping it from going vertical and expanding as relatively failsafe. I favor using nearly frozen or slush HTP (98+%) and a little bit of something hydrocarbon for accomplishing the most easily stored energy kick per volume, not that certain conditions of handling HTP are exactly inert. Anytime you mess with terrific energy density, such as HTP plus whatever else, there's a risk of something going terribly wrong. ~ BG |
#15
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The First Step in Creating a Space Age - Treat Earth as a Planet
William Mook wrote:
We are contemplating 16 million airships carrying 40 tons each - 0.64 billion dead weight tons - having a cycle time of 2.25 days delivering delivering 140 billion tons of cargo per year - with far greater flexibility than is possible with sea going ships. How long do you imagine it would take to build 16 million airships? As a point of reference that's about 10 times the number of aircraft built since the Wright brothers (100 years). Building and keeping in service 16 million airships of the type you describe is far, far beyond global industrial capacity. Jim Davis |
#16
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The First Step in Creating a Space Age - Treat Earth as a Planet
Here's what I found out about the Hindenberg; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHbaOX2UAs0 Time you caught up with reality Freddie. |
#17
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The First Step in Creating a Space Age - Treat Earth as a Planet
Ah, I'm glad to see you two are friends at last.
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#18
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The First Step in Creating a Space Age - Treat Earth as a Planet
As Jay Leno reported, the Hindenberg ignited not because of hydrogen
but because of the material that coated the surface of the balloon. The magnesium struts didn't help either. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHbaOX2UAs0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXjVxOGCEpQ |
#19
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The First Step in Creating a Space Age - Treat Earth as a Planet
On Nov 8, 9:41*am, Jim Davis wrote:
William Mook wrote: We are contemplating 16 million airships carrying 40 tons each - 0.64 billion dead weight tons - having a cycle time of 2.25 days delivering delivering 140 billion tons of cargo per year - with far greater flexibility than is possible with sea going ships. How long do you imagine it would take to build 16 million airships? The supply chain will take five years to engineer. Five years to build. Five years to produce the fleet. As I mentioned before. This is a production rate of 1 airship every 10 seconds once in full- scale production. This will take about 2,000,000 workers at 100 centers and total $190 billion in capital expense along with another $3.2 billion in development cost. The cost of each airship will be $800,000 out the door and another $600,000 will be spent over its useful life which is estimated to be 10 years. Over that time it will ship 73,000 tons of material at a cost of $20 per ton - a penny a pound. We will produce a factory that makes factories - largely unmanned production cells - one per week - like Henry Kaiser produced aircraft carriers. Over a two year period we will grow from 1 production cell to 100 - and production rate will grow from 32,000 per year to 3.2 million per year. As a point of reference that's about 10 times the number of aircraft built since the Wright brothers (100 years). True, but since we won't be building these airships using existing infrastructure, this isn't relevant. Besides, most of those aircraft you cite were built during World War 2 - which proves my point about supply chain because of the 1.5 million aircraft built since 1903 over half were built in the period from 1939 to 1945 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_W...aft_production The world in this 7 year period produced nearly 800,000 aircraft of all types. This shows that when production is organized, significant things can be done relatively quickly. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militar...g_World_War_II Look at aircraft carriers produced by the Allies. Note the vast difference Henry Kaiser played in aircraft carrier production for the Allies. His Vancouver shipyard produced its first Aircraft Carrier in April 1943. He produced 50 carriers in less than a year! That's 3x more than all the Axis powers put together. Throughout the war Kaiser's dry docks and shipyards put out 140 major ships. Now consider Automobile production figures before Henry Ford's supply chain innovations and after Henry Ford's supply chain innovations. Henry Ford organized an assembly line and outproduced all other manufacturers at vastly less cost than anyone else - notwithstanding the low levels of production and high prices before that time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Au...uction_Figures From 1899 through 1901 there were fewer than 700 automobiles produced per year. Five years later Ford alone produced over 8,700 cars and the industry nearly 20,000 copying his methods. Ten years after that Ford produced over 500,000 cars and industry copying many of his methods produced nearly 200,000 more. By 1923 Ford alone produced over 1.8 million cars and the rest of the industry produced another million. This vast increase in the rate of production reflected the rate of investment in new productive techniques and new supply chains. Building and keeping in service 16 million airships of the type you describe is far, far beyond global industrial capacity. That is correct. To produce this many airships in five years and maintain them over 10 years and produce replacements over that time will require investment in a supply chain designed to achieve this end. The present industrial supply chain is not organized to produce vehicles of this type on this scale. Its a classic make-buy strategy favoring make. The same supply chain that produces the vehicles will make parts and maintain them and produce replacement vehicles recycling parts and materiel from retired vehicles. Jim Davis |
#20
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The First Step in Creating a Space Age - Treat Earth as a Planet
On Nov 7, 10:24*pm, Brad Guth wrote:
On Nov 7, 5:26*pm, William Mook wrote: Earth as a planet means Earth treated as a single entity of production and consumption. *Which stands in marked contrast to treating Earth as a divided and fractious collection of 266 nations each on their own geopolitical position defined by their access or not to resources and defined by their ability to trick, cajole or force others to hand over what they need at the expense of the rest. It is clear that despite well defined limits and options we have not made good decisions related to the development of energy resources on this planet. It is likely we have not made good decisions related to the development of other primary resources as well. So, its worth thinking of a goal and determining if this goal is at all feasible! It turns out that it may be! 8 billion millionaires is one place to start. *Its a well defined target. *We find that to achieve this goal we need vastly more than is currently being produced in terms of food, energy, wood, metals, and so on. When, we look at what the entire planet has to offer we find that we have enough - surprisingly. In the end, we look at the Earth as we might look at a space colony - and we find that we have plenty of everything to go around - if we trouble ourselves to invest in the most productive infrastructure possible and apply it as broadly as possible leaving no one out. When we do this we find that approximately 800,000 sq km of solar collectors, 800,000 sq km of green houses in the desert, a few large water works programs, and careful management of 800,000 sq km of Taiga forest, combined with the development of a yet to be determined number of deep sea trenches - connected together with space based communications, space based navigation, space based sensing, and a network of hydrogen filled hydrogen fueled UAV - creates a system that achieves the initial target of 8 billion millionaires. From the productivity of this asset we can see how our economy might adopt it as a private public partnership - allocating what Ford calls efficiency bonuses to workers, management, investors, government, and buyers alike. This is all well and good, except for the usual part where William Mook does nothing. Motivating poor folks to do whatever they can't possibly afford to accomplish isn't exactly a working plan, and especially dysfunctional if there's no actual leadership by anyone other than yourself. *Do you even have a short list of who would be put in charge of what, and have any of them been contacted by you? *~ BG The 10 million millionaires have $40 trillion. With the collapse of the US banking system and the imminent unraveling of the US monetary system they're looking for a place to put their money. A few billion to build a 'production cell' that puts all the pieces together is the first step. Then, building a factory that makes factories to make the things we need to live. Like I said; Five Years to Engineer and Develop Five Years to build the supply chain Five Years to build the products We start with 1 cell and grow it 100x over three years by building a production cell per year - of each type needed to support the supply chain. |
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