Photos of NK missile in flight and during liftoff

http://www.irandefence.net/showthrea...t=47276&page=2
It looks like the "satellite fairing" has a ablative heatshield at its
tip, like a warhead would have.
Honking big graphite control vanes on the first stage engines.

Pat

Pat Flannery wrote:

http://www.irandefence.net/showthrea...t=47276&page=2
It looks like the "satellite fairing" has a ablative heatshield at its
tip, like a warhead would have.

It has something colored differntly than the rest of the rocket, sure.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
...
http://www.irandefence.net/showthrea...t=47276&page=2
It looks like the "satellite fairing" has a ablative heatshield at its
tip, like a warhead would have.
Honking big graphite control vanes on the first stage engines.

Scud-derived. Seems they've just copied Russian/Soviet work.

Clearly an ICBM.

Pat, you are seeing things.

South Korea is putting up satellites - with USA help. Why isn't
anyone saying they're developing missles to threaten China with?
Even while that is part of the avowed mission of KARI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_...arch_Institute

North Korea began developing a space launch capability to show that it
was the equal of the South. End of story.

The point is - the USA - as is the case with the Reagan Doctrine and
radical muslim backed terror - CREATED THIS PROBLEM IN THE FIRST
PLACE!!

We didn't need to give South Korea US missile technology, and had we
stood firm against that and given the South an alternative to
developing space satellites using US and other launchers for hire - we
would have gotten Chinese support to help pressure North Korea from
developing this technology on its own.

Furthermore, had we worked more closely with China, Russia, France and
Britain, we would have had developed an international system and means
for nations like Iran to launch their own satellites on pre-existing
launchers - while instituting an enhanced non-proliferation treaty.

The USA needs a thorough and critical review of its global military
and intelligence stance, and needs to address in a different way
issues of missile and nuclear proliferation, as well as issues of
loose-nukes and anti-terror.

The USA through the Reagan Doctrine, CREATED the present radical
muslim movement, to act as a proxy to attack the former Soviet Union.
When the Soviets collapsed, we lost control of this movement, and it
turned on us. We can end this, if we give up the notion that some of
the elements are useful to us in keeping the Russian Republics down -
and harassing China's border - and work with Russia and China - using
moderate muslim leaders - along with secret data we developed in
building this movement - to destroy the power of radical muslims in
the world today.

Similarly, our intransigence in working cooperatively with other space
faring nations, and nations seeking space faring presence, has created
much of the difficulty with missile proliferation. There are elements
within the US defense community that WANTS TO SEE NORTH KOREA IRAN AND
OTHER 'ENEMIES' DEVELOP A LIMITED MISSILE TECHNOLOGY SO THE USA HAS A
RATIONALE TO DEVELOP SDI BASED TECHNOLOGY. We need to take a
different approach.

If we work with all nations to build a common defense against terror,
against international crime, against warfare generally, and against
pollution, disease, and privation - we can reduce the $1.7 trillion we
now spend on defense to $0.2 trillion worldwide - and take the $1.5
trillion savings - to create a global development corporation - that
seeks to attract a portion of the $40 trillion in investment capital
in the world to the poorest nations - and then charge fees against
businesses to build the fund to continue to provide development that
helps build world peace and prosperity to counter the roots of war and
violence.

The following early programs are recommended;

1) Communications and unemployment along with availability of capital,
insurance, and other information intensive services limit the
efficiency of markets in certain regions. A Global wireless hotspot -
broadband wireless communications available at zero cost to users -
paid for by charging a modest surcharge on the chipsets used to
communicate with the network based on bandwidth. This along with
adopting standards for biometric and virtual reality signalling
provide a new way for everyone to communicate and create an
information rich environment for all.

2) Energy shortages, rising energy costs, and pollution from primary
fuels is a significant problem on Earth. Global wireless power
transmission - a network of solar pumped lasers on orbit beam bandgap
matched energy to recievers in sight of the orbiting lasers, providing
safe reliable clean power anywhere in any quantity at costs too cheap
to meter - power is paid for by a modest surcharge on each receiver
based on receiver wattage - resolves this problem.

3) Two-thousand tons of fissile materials pose the single greatest
threat to Earth's environment, and is the single largest public safety
hazard facing humanity today. An enhanced non-proliferation treaty
that gives control of ALL nuclear materials to a single international
body, that ends the construction, use, design, operation of ALL
nuclear power stations, that converts the two thousand tons of fissile
materials into two billion nuclear triggers for two billion Teller-
Ulam aneutronic fusion pulse units, along with the construction of a
fleet of 250 nuclear pulse rockets each capable of transporting 50,000
tons of payload across the solar system in weeks - would provide a
means to establish cities on the moon and mars, a nuclear research
station on the moon, a nuclear repository and interplanetary shipyard
on the moon and mars, and inspire universal cooperation with the goals
of the enhanced non-proliferation treaty. Spacecraft are leased out
to qualified users (those who are trained and meet safety inspections)
who then use them for any legal purpose - and the current space
treaties are modified to allow private users to lease on long term
contracts from the UN for a modest fee, and generous credits for
improvements - with 'ownership like' easements around such
improvements - to and on celestial bodies and on and around regions of
celestial bodies. These are very similar to offshore leases used by
oil companies and others to develop offshore resources.


4) Telecheric and virtual reality technologies allow a great expansion
of work and more efficient use of labor. Transport still remains an
issue for planet Eearth. For this reason MEMs based rockets powered
by laser energy from space - formed into a propulsor technology that
makes ballistic transport widely available for the production of
personal spacecraft as well as ballistic automated package delivery.

5) Rising living standards and increased impact of industry and
agriculture on Earth pose huge threats to our continued existence.
Meanshile, higher living standards are proven to reduce population
growth rate. For this reason, movement of our primary energy, along
with primary communications and primary energy and primary strategic
defense, off world is important to achieve, and achieve quickly.
Asteroid capture using advanced nuclear pulse technology, brings the
riches of the solar system to Earth - and other habitable places where
humans decide to live - such as cities on the moon and mars. Advanced
nuclear pulse technology bring rich asteroids into orbit around
EArth. There large launchers loft teleoperated factories to these
asteroids. Asteroids orbiting Earth feed earth orbiting solar powered
factories operated by remote control. They make products for use on
orbit, in space, and on Earth. Products are projected where they are
desired by solar powered rail gun, and final delta vee applied by MEMs
based propulsors - powered by laser energy. In this way anyone
anywhere recieves anything they desire - while the system expands on
orbit to include large pressure vessels that house orbiting farms and
forests to supply wood and food fiber cloth and leather to the mix of
products made on orbit. As teleoperated robots are replaced by
autonomous robots - as software develops - without material or energy
shortages - growth in availability of AI based labor allows limitless
growth of living standards while ending pollution on Earth.
Ultimately low cost ballistic transport combined with large numbers of
pressure vessels on Earth orbit - give rise to the space home - and
orbital housing developments.

6) Increasing numbers of people living and working on orbit and on
orbit above the moon and mars aboard large space stations each housing
their own owner chosen ecology - lead naturally to a desire to move
these large space stations throughout the solar system and beyond.
For this reason advanced high-intensity powersats are developed that
work a scant 3 million miles above the surface of the sun. Here 2.5
MW per square meter are converted with nearly perfect effciency to IR
laser energy for beaming through very large optics across the solar
system and beyond. Not only do collections of these satellites power
worlds, they also provide the means for extremely low cost thrust
through laser propelled rockets as well as laser light sails. This
includes moving free flying personal space stations throughout the
solar system at will, as well as moving these same stations beyond the
sun to the stars nearby.

7) Expanding human presence beyond the solar system gives rise to
demand for advanced tech. Coordinating the extensive infrastructure
developed to support industrial life on Earth, creates new
opportunities for expansion and rising living standards throughout the
galaxy.
7a) High energy proton beams powered by intense laser energy
operating in remote locations in the solar system are used to create
industrial quantities of anti-matter at low cost, and technology is
developed to use this anti-matter in a variety of ways to augment the
laser light sails in interstellar trade.
7b) Furthermore, establishing counterpropagating beams in parallel
with the outbound beams permit a low cost high speed interstellar
trade to develop - so establishing intense laser beams and optics in
remote star systems to support this trade is of obvious public
interest.
7c) Finally, once counter-propagating flows of materiel between star
systems is established, R&D at remote locations from the interstellar
trade routes, allow experimentation with high-speed, high-mass
collisions of shaped iron-56 elements - to attemtp to create
engineered black holes. The development of such 'black hole dusts'
permits the creation of a new class of engineered device not possible
with atomic dusts. Devices that can directly affect spacetime which
possibly has significant application including;
7c.i ) zero point energy production
7c.ii ) time signalling, time travel
7c.iii) faster than light travel (related intimately to 7c.ii)
7c.iv) other applications unknowable at this time

wrote in message
...
Pat, you are seeing things.

South Korea is putting up satellites - with USA help. Why isn't
anyone saying they're developing missles to threaten China with?

Several reasons;

1 The SK satellites are launched by the USA, so SK isn't developing the
launcher.

2 Only a nut would think NK is developing a satellite launch program.

Derek Lyons wrote:

http://www.irandefence.net/showthrea...t=47276&page=2
It looks like the "satellite fairing" has a ablative heatshield at its
tip, like a warhead would have.


It has something colored differntly than the rest of the rocket, sure.


It could be a simple heatshield atop the fairing to protect it from
ascent heating, but what it actually resembles is the nose of a Corona
reconsat RV like were launched attached to a Agena upper stage.

Pat

On Apr 8, 11:15*am, "Alan Erskine" wrote:
wrote in message

...

Pat, you are seeing things.

South Korea is putting up satellites - with USA help. *Why isn't
anyone saying they're developing missles to threaten China with?

Several reasons;

1 * *The SK satellites are launched by the USA, so SK isn't developing the
launcher.

WRONG!

KARI began in 1990 to develop its own rockets. It produced the KSR-I
and KSR-II, one and two-stage rockets in the early 1990s.

In December 1997 it began development of a LOX/kerosene rocket engine.
KARI wished to develop satellite launch capability. A test launch of
the KSR-III took place in 2002.

2 * *Only a nut would think NK is developing a satellite launch program.

I never said that - so, who's the nut? You are. The point is

a) had the USA not pushed South Korean rocket development North
Korea would not make it such a high priority.

b) had the USA not pushed South Korean rocket development, China
would have helped us put pressure on North Korea to end its program

c) had the USA worked more openly with nations to help them orbit
payloads, there would be less incentive to develop their own launchers
- as all space faring nations cooperate to end missile proliferation.


South Korea turned to Russia to develop its own launcher. South Korea
decided to speed up development by joining with Russia, and
cooperation began in 2004.

KARI is now developing the Korea Space Launch Vehicle, whose first-
stage is based on the Angara rocket. First launch of the KSLV is
expected in 2009. Russia is also helping to build the Korea Space
Center, a spaceport in Goheung County.

A deal was also struck on October 24, 2005 to send a Korean into space
aboard a Russian Soyuz spaceflight.

Through the Korean Astronaut Program, Russia has trained two South
Koreans and has sent one (Yi So-yeon) to the International Space
Station in 2008.

wrote in message news:63786a62-815f-4529-93cc-

a) had the USA not pushed South Korean rocket development North
Korea would not make it such a high priority.

Bull. They're not aimed at SK; they have enough range to get a third of the
way around the world.

b) had the USA not pushed South Korean rocket development, China
would have helped us put pressure on North Korea to end its program

In what way did the USA "push" SK towards rocket development?

c) had the USA worked more openly with nations to help them orbit
payloads, there would be less incentive to develop their own launchers
- as all space faring nations cooperate to end missile proliferation.

The US does help nations orbit payloads. Openly. For that matter, why
doesn't NK use Chinese LVs to launch their satellites?

South Korea turned to Russia to develop its own launcher. South Korea
decided to speed up development by joining with Russia, and
cooperation began in 2004.

KARI is now developing the Korea Space Launch Vehicle, whose first-
stage is based on the Angara rocket. First launch of the KSLV is
expected in 2009.

Says who? Cites?

A deal was also struck on October 24, 2005 to send a Korean into space
aboard a Russian Soyuz spaceflight.

Through the Korean Astronaut Program, Russia has trained two South
Koreans and has sent one (Yi So-yeon) to the International Space
Station in 2008.

That's a long way from developing missile technology.

North Korea has been and remains less of a threat to international
security than our Bush/Cheney faith-based wizards of the dark side.

Your glory-hole idealism of the Mook New World Order is noted, and
perhaps within a century or more after you are quite dead and gone is
when we'll start running ourselves out of affordable fossil fuels, and
perhaps even thorium will be forbidden to use because it simply
doesn't make weapons grade plutonium.

With China, secondly India and then perhaps third being Canada in
charge of most terrestrial energy and matters related to our Selene/
moon and of its L1, we'll be lucky to even have a working DARPA or
that of its puppet NASA.

Why not simply instead deliver upon your green/renewable hydrogen.
Making 100 million tonnes/year of such green hydrogen can't possibly
be all that insurmountable, and we can always import whatever millions
of h2o2 tonnes plus nifty synfuels and loads of energy created
products so that none of your precious PV farmed energy ever gets
diverted or wasted.

~ BG


On Apr 7, 10:58*pm, wrote:
Pat, you are seeing things.

South Korea is putting up satellites - with USA help. *Why isn't
anyone saying they're developing missles to threaten China with?
Even while that is part of the avowed mission of KARI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_...arch_Institute

North Korea began developing a space launch capability to show that it
was the equal of the South. *End of story.

The point is - the USA - as is the case with the Reagan Doctrine *and
radical muslim backed terror - CREATED THIS PROBLEM IN THE FIRST
PLACE!!

We didn't need to give South Korea US missile technology, and had we
stood firm against that and given the South an alternative to
developing space satellites using US and other launchers for hire - we
would have gotten Chinese support to help pressure North Korea from
developing this technology on its own.

Furthermore, had we worked more closely with China, Russia, France and
Britain, we would have had developed an international system and means
for nations like Iran to launch their own satellites on pre-existing
launchers - while instituting an enhanced non-proliferation treaty.

The USA needs a thorough and critical review of its global military
and intelligence stance, and needs to address in a different way
issues of missile and nuclear proliferation, as well as issues of
loose-nukes and anti-terror.

The USA through the Reagan Doctrine, CREATED the present radical
muslim movement, to act as a proxy to attack the former Soviet Union.
When the Soviets collapsed, we lost control of this movement, and it
turned on us. *We can end this, if we give up the notion that some of
the elements are useful to us in keeping the Russian Republics down -
and harassing China's border - and work with Russia and China - using
moderate muslim leaders - along with secret data we developed in
building this movement - to destroy the power of radical muslims in
the world today.

Similarly, our intransigence in working cooperatively with other space
faring nations, and nations seeking space faring presence, has created
much of the difficulty with missile proliferation. *There are elements
within the US defense community that WANTS TO SEE NORTH KOREA IRAN AND
OTHER 'ENEMIES' DEVELOP A LIMITED MISSILE TECHNOLOGY SO THE USA HAS A
RATIONALE TO DEVELOP SDI BASED TECHNOLOGY. *We need to take a
different approach.

If we work with all nations to build a common defense against terror,
against international crime, against warfare generally, and against
pollution, disease, and privation - we can reduce the $1.7 trillion we
now spend on defense to $0.2 trillion worldwide - and take the $1.5
trillion savings - to create a global development corporation - that
seeks to attract a portion of the $40 trillion in investment capital
in the world to the poorest nations - and then charge fees against
businesses to build the fund to continue to provide development that
helps build world peace and prosperity to counter the roots of war and
violence.

The following early programs are recommended;

1) Communications and unemployment along with availability of capital,
insurance, and other information intensive services limit the
efficiency of markets in certain regions. *A Global wireless hotspot -
broadband wireless communications available at zero cost to users -
paid for by charging a modest surcharge on the chipsets used to
communicate with the network based on bandwidth. *This along with
adopting standards for biometric and virtual reality signalling
provide a new way for everyone to communicate and create an
information rich environment for all.

2) *Energy shortages, rising energy costs, and pollution from primary
fuels is a significant problem on Earth. *Global wireless power
transmission - a network of solar pumped lasers on orbit beam bandgap
matched energy to recievers in sight of the orbiting lasers, providing
safe reliable clean power anywhere in any quantity at costs too cheap
to meter - power is paid for by a modest surcharge on each receiver
based on receiver wattage - resolves this problem.

3) Two-thousand tons of fissile materials pose the single greatest
threat to Earth's environment, and is the single largest public safety
hazard facing humanity today. *An enhanced non-proliferation treaty
that gives control of ALL nuclear materials to a single international
body, that ends the construction, use, design, operation of ALL
nuclear power stations, that converts the two thousand tons of fissile
materials into two billion nuclear triggers for two billion Teller-
Ulam aneutronic fusion pulse units, along with the construction of a
fleet of 250 nuclear pulse rockets each capable of transporting 50,000
tons of payload across the solar system in weeks - would provide a
means to establish cities on the moon and mars, a nuclear research
station on the moon, a nuclear repository and interplanetary shipyard
on the moon and mars, and inspire universal cooperation with the goals
of the enhanced non-proliferation treaty. *Spacecraft are leased out
to qualified users (those who are trained and meet safety inspections)
who then use them for any legal purpose - and the current space
treaties are modified to allow private users to lease on long term
contracts from the UN for a modest fee, and generous credits for
improvements - with 'ownership like' easements around such
improvements - to and on celestial bodies and on and around regions of
celestial bodies. *These are very similar to offshore leases used by
oil companies and others to develop offshore resources.

4) Telecheric and virtual reality technologies allow a great expansion
of work and more efficient use of labor. *Transport still remains an
issue for planet Eearth. *For this reason MEMs based rockets powered
by laser energy from space - formed into a propulsor technology that
makes ballistic transport widely available for the production of
personal spacecraft as well as ballistic automated package delivery.

5) Rising living standards and increased impact of industry and
agriculture on Earth pose huge threats to our continued existence.
Meanshile, higher living standards are proven to reduce population
growth rate. *For this reason, movement of our primary energy, along
with primary communications and primary energy and primary strategic
defense, off world is important to achieve, and achieve quickly.
Asteroid capture using advanced nuclear pulse technology, brings the
riches of the solar system to Earth - and other habitable places where
humans decide to live - such as cities on the moon and mars. *Advanced
nuclear pulse technology bring rich asteroids into orbit around
EArth. *There large launchers loft teleoperated factories to these
asteroids. *Asteroids orbiting Earth feed earth orbiting solar powered
factories operated by remote control. *They make products for use on
orbit, in space, and on Earth. *Products are projected where they are
desired by solar powered rail gun, and final delta vee applied by MEMs
based propulsors - powered by laser energy. *In this way anyone
anywhere recieves anything they desire - while the system expands on
orbit to include large pressure vessels that house orbiting farms and
forests to supply wood and food fiber cloth and leather to the mix of
products made on orbit. *As teleoperated robots are replaced by
autonomous robots - as software develops - without material or energy
shortages - growth in availability of AI based labor allows limitless
growth of living standards while ending pollution on Earth.
Ultimately low cost ballistic transport combined with large numbers of
pressure vessels on Earth orbit - give rise to the space home - and
orbital housing developments.

6) Increasing numbers of people living and working on orbit and on
orbit above the moon and mars aboard large space stations each housing
their own owner chosen ecology - lead naturally to a desire to move
these large space stations throughout the solar system and beyond.
For this reason advanced high-intensity powersats are developed that
work a scant 3 million miles above the surface of the sun. *Here 2.5
MW per square meter are converted with nearly perfect effciency to IR
laser energy for beaming through very large optics across the solar
system and beyond. *Not only do collections of these satellites power
worlds, they also provide the means for extremely low cost thrust
through laser propelled rockets as well as laser light sails. *This
includes moving free flying personal space stations throughout the
solar system at will, as well as moving these same stations beyond the
sun to the stars nearby.

7) Expanding human presence beyond the solar system gives rise to
demand for advanced tech. *Coordinating the extensive infrastructure
developed to support industrial life on Earth, creates new
opportunities for expansion and rising living standards throughout the
galaxy.
* *7a) High energy proton beams powered by intense laser energy
operating in remote locations in the solar system are used to create
industrial quantities of anti-matter at low cost, and technology is
developed to use *this anti-matter in a variety of ways to augment the
laser light sails in interstellar trade.
* 7b) Furthermore, establishing counterpropagating beams in parallel
with the outbound beams permit a low cost high speed interstellar
trade to develop - so establishing intense laser beams and optics in
remote star systems to support this trade is of obvious public
interest.
* 7c) Finally, once counter-propagating flows of materiel between star
systems is established, R&D at remote locations from the interstellar
trade routes, allow experimentation with high-speed, high-mass
collisions of shaped iron-56 elements - to attemtp to create
engineered black holes. *The development of such 'black hole dusts'
permits the creation of a new class of engineered device not possible
with atomic dusts. *Devices that can directly affect spacetime which
possibly has significant application including;
* * 7c.i *) zero point energy production
* * 7c.ii ) time signalling, time travel
* * 7c.iii) faster than light travel (related intimately to 7c.ii)
* * 7c.iv) other applications unknowable at this time

On Apr 8, 1:32*pm, "Alan Erskine" wrote:
wrote in message news:63786a62-815f-4529-93cc-

* a) had the USA not pushed South Korean rocket development North

Korea would not make it such a high priority.

Bull. *They're not aimed at SK; they have enough range to get a third of the
way around the world.

b) had the USA not pushed South Korean rocket development, China
would have helped us put pressure on North Korea to end its program

In what way did the USA "push" SK towards rocket development?

c) had the USA worked more openly with nations to help them orbit
payloads, there would be less incentive to develop their own launchers
- as all space faring nations cooperate to end missile proliferation.

The US does help nations orbit payloads. *Openly. *For that matter, why
doesn't NK use Chinese LVs to launch their satellites?

South Korea turned to Russia to develop its own launcher. *South Korea
decided to speed up development by joining with Russia, and
cooperation began in 2004.
KARI is now developing the Korea Space Launch Vehicle, whose first-
stage is based on the Angara rocket. First launch of the KSLV is
expected in 2009.

Says who? *Cites?

A deal was also struck on October 24, 2005 to send a Korean into space
aboard a Russian Soyuz spaceflight.
Through the Korean Astronaut Program, Russia has trained two South
Koreans and has sent one (Yi So-yeon) to the International Space
Station in 2008.

That's a long way from developing missile technology.

Lord Mook simply wants to be No.1 alpha dog, and the other lord knows
you can't do that by way of sharing technology. If lord Mook had it
his way, fire would still be taboo/nondisclosure rated, plus witch and
book burnings standard policy (of course always in denial should the
topic arise)

~ BG