NK rocket fails to orbit satellite

Sounds like the third stage never separated from stage two:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/7984254.stm

Pat

On Apr 5, 8:22*am, Pat Flannery wrote:
Sounds like the third stage never separated from stage two:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/7984254.stm

Pat

This shows the need to reconfigure our approach to space travel.

I wonder why N. Korea claims the satellite is orbiting if its not.
I wonder why USA claims the satellite isn't orbiting if it is.

Because,

It should be pretty easy to confirm that the satellite is up there or
not.

What are the orbital parameters they're claiming? They filed a launch
request with the UN and followed all international laws. No one
objected strongly enough to stop the approvals before the launch. So,
the US, Japan and South Korea are just posturing.

Why didn't the UN stop them from launching? I think maybe because
they couldn't? But I think they could have if they really wanted to.
That's what the rules are for. US South Korea and Japan were the only
objectors? What's the story there?

I always worry that any powerful Democratic President will be mislead
by a right-leaning military to do things that ultimately embarass
the Democrats. They did it to JFK, they did it to LBJ, they did it to
Carter, and they did it to Clinton.

There is no more outrage over this launch outside those three nations
listed, than there are WMDs in Iraq! I can imagine if there is a
satellite and its independently confirmed, Obama will catch heat
unfairly for 'lying'.

I also imagine that if we get caught in a pointless war with N.
Korea, to add to our existing war on terror, ignoring real trouble
with nukes in Pakistan threatening India, while war drags on in
Afghanistan and Iraq - the US economy will just have a massive
coronary - as people refuse to reinvest in the US.

Finally, the real threat facing the USA is loose nukes from the former
Soviet republics. We need to organize an enhanced non-proliferation
treaty - and organize an international approach to space travel as
I've said. This will stop covert missile development, and nuclear
development, and get a hand on loose nukes, if done right.

I propose we create a UN agency for space exploration and development,
modify the NPT and OST with a view toward commercial space
development, and transform the 2,000 tons of fissile materials into 2
billion harmless nuclear triggers for Teller-Ulam aneutronic fusion
pulse units to power a fleet of clean nuclear pulse spacecraft.

Then, build a fleet of 200 ships, 50,000 ton capacity, operated by the
UN space exploration agency and carry out a program of global
development using them.

This includes;

1) launch 660 satellites to create a global wireless hotspot and new
services
2) launch solar power satellites to end our reliance on fossil fuels
and nuclear fuels
3) explore the small bodies of the solar system
4) capture the richest small bodies bringing them to EO with nuclear
pulse
5) deploy remotely operated solar powered factories on EO asteroids
6) build large pressure vessels for remotely operated orbiting farms
and forests
7) deploy food, fiber, raw materials, and finished goods on demand
everywhere

Then, we can build a city on Luna, and Mars, and develop housing on
orbit. We can also build and deorbit large vessels - that float in
Earth's atmosphere like Buckminster Fuller's 'Cloud Nine' cities.

http://www.bluejayway.net/html_docs/...n_science.html

These would have teleoperation VR suites that allow folks to work from
the floating cities anywhere on Earth or space, by remote control - by
driving humaniform robots. The cities would be protected by
international law, and people would be free to come and go among
them. It would be an alternative to the camps around the world, a
refuge for the destitute and starving and a challenge to rogue regimes
everywhere.

What would North Korea do if its people could leave and find work and
a better life? What would any repressive nation do? They would cease
to exist as people vote with their feet. And that's a good thing.

Just as I thought! In 1998 the US 'missed' North Korea's launch that
time as well - but later analysis showed that it had been orbited, and
for some reason failed after two orbits - even though the third stage
is easily detected today.



UNCONFIRMED LAUNCH REPORT - PRELIMINARY ENTRY ONLY

1998 Aug 31.13 (No name) Musudan-ri 50 kg?
Reported orbital launch Taepo Dong 1

On September 4, 1998 the Korean Central News Agency of the
Democratic People's Republic of Korea announced that North Korea had
launched its first satellite on August 31 at 12.07 local time (03.07
GMT). The launch announcement claimed that what had been though to
have been a missile launch which had caused international comment on
August 31 had actually been their first satellite launch. The three-
stage launch vehicle is said to have been flown from Musudan-ri,
Hwadae County, North Hamgyong Province (estimated to be approximately
41 deg N, 130 deg E) at an azimuth of 86 deg (which implies an orbital
inclination close to 41 deg) and "correctly put the satellite into
orbit" after four minutes 53 seconds. The launch vehicle's first stage
separated 95 seconds after the launch: the second stage "opened the
capsule" (possibly meaning the separation of the payload shroud) 144
seconds after launch and separated at 266 seconds: the third stage is
claimed to have put the satellite into orbit 27 seconds after the
separation of the second stage.

The launch announcement stated that the satellite was in an orbit
with a period of 165 minutes, perigee 218.82 km and apogee of 6,978.2
km: no orbital inclination was given. It went on to claim that:-

The satellite is equipped with necessary sounding instruments.
It will contribute to promoting scientific research for [the] peaceful
use of outer space. It is also instrumental in confirming the
calculation basis for the launch of practical satellites in the
future. The satellite is now transmitting the melody of the immortal
revolutionary hymns "Song of General Kim Il Sung" and "Song of General
Kim Jong Il" and the Morse signals "Juche Korea" in 27 Mhz.

None of the usual amateur radio satellite observers have reported
hearing anything of these claimed transmissions.

Although the North Koreans claimed that this was a successful
orbital launch there is no evidence that anything actually reached
orbit. USSPACECOM tracked nothing in orbit which could relate to this
launch and this cannot be a repeat of the "missed" EXPRESS 1 orbital
launch in January 1995. In the case of EXPRESS 1 the satellite came
down after less than two orbits and a retrospective search of
USSPACECOM's data found some preliminary tracking data from the launch
which was never officially assigned to a launch: on the other hand the
announced data for the North Korean launch would result in the
satellite and third stage remaining in orbit for an extended period -
ie, if USSPACECOM had initially missed the launch then with the
announced data it would be easy to back-track and find the satellite
in orbit. Although ITAR-TASS announced on September 4 that the
Russians had tracked the launch as an orbital one, the orbital
parameters which they gave were identical to those announced by North
Korea, including the omission of an orbital inclination. Therefore,
the veracity of the Russian claims must be in doubt with no supporting
evidence.

There are two possibilities: one is that this was an unsuccessful
orbital attempt and the other is that this was a missile test (as
originally reported on August 31) and that the claim of an orbital
flight was simply a cover story to try and make the missile test less
threatening. The latter option appears to be the most probable one.

The launch vehicle has been identified as Taepo Dong 1 (believed
to be named after a geographical region near the launch site): if it
has any basis in reality then this would be a liquid-propellant two-
stage Taepo Dong 1 missile with a small solid-propellant third stage
added for the final orbital injection.


----------------------------
WORLDWIDE SATELLITE LAUNCHES
----------------------------

Publication of the monthly Worldwide Satellite Launches started in
February 1993 following the demise of the Tables of Earth Satellites
which had been issued via the DRA/Royal Aircraft Establishment.

It is a monthly listing of new launches which took place during the
preceding month, plus up-dates concerning previous launches,
newly-released data, re-locations of geosynchronous orbit
satellites, etc. For new launches the listing includes full
orbital data (with the exception of some classified missions),
satellite descriptions, orbiting rocket body descriptions, mission
descriptions, launch dates/times, descent dates (times for
landings), launch sites and launch vehicles.

Fully collated and indexed comb-bound volumes of previous years'
Worldwide Satellite Launches including data (for example, complete
listings of unclassified objects in geosynchronous orbits) not
included in the monthly issues are available. Subscription details
and/or a specimen issue are available from the contact address below.


WORLDWIDE SATELLITE LAUNCHES MONTHLY (ISSN 1352-8203)
Current subscription runs from February 1998 to January 1999 and
covers 1998 launches. Back issues for early 1998 launches are sent
out to new subscribers.


CONTACT DETAILS
Phillip S Clark
Molniya Space Consultancy
25 Redfern Avenue, Whitton, Middx TW4 5NA (U.K.)

wrote:

This shows the need to reconfigure our approach to space travel.

I wonder why N. Korea claims the satellite is orbiting if its not.


They did that last time also.

I wonder why USA claims the satellite isn't orbiting if it is.


It's not, nor is it playing patriotic music:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...najHwD97C9QT00
If it were doing that, they would give the frequency it was transmitting
on to prove it was in orbit.

Pat

On Sun, 05 Apr 2009 07:22:24 -0500, Pat Flannery
wrote:

Sounds like the third stage never separated from stage two:

Shocked! Shocked I am that this rocket failed to orbit a satellite!
Why, it is almost like it was never supposed to in the first place!
I'm just shocked!

Brian

Brian Thorn wrote:
On Sun, 05 Apr 2009 07:22:24 -0500, Pat Flannery
wrote:


Sounds like the third stage never separated from stage two:


Shocked! Shocked I am that this rocket failed to orbit a satellite!
Why, it is almost like it was never supposed to in the first place!
I'm just shocked!


If it was a ICBM test one assumes that the third stage was supposed to
fire also, or if it was a warhead simulator at least separate from the
second stage.
They still haven't stated if the second and third stages went into the
drink separately or still attached to each other.

Pat

"Brian Thorn" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 05 Apr 2009 07:22:24 -0500, Pat Flannery
wrote:

Sounds like the third stage never separated from stage two:

Shocked! Shocked I am that this rocket failed to orbit a satellite!
Why, it is almost like it was never supposed to in the first place!
I'm just shocked!

Brian

===========================================

Good words, Brian. Appropriate. However, *what is* the deeper game in
this?

Titeotwawki -- mha [2009 Apr 05]

On Apr 5, 5:22*am, Pat Flannery wrote:
Sounds like the third stage never separated from stage two:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/7984254.stm

The media goes to great pains to state that such a rocket could strike
Hawaii, Alaska and the western US. But surely if it is designed to
reach orbit, it is quite capable of hitting any place on Earth within
its inclination?

Or are they implying that its payload capacity is too small to orbit a
significant warhead, and its useful military range is much smaller?

On Apr 5, 6:24*pm, OM wrote:
Which means, of course, that we have a great opportunity to do what we
didn't do the last time this happened, and drop a few nukes of our own
on the Commie *******s...:-P

No, North Korea is completely invulnerable to attack. If provoked
they could annihilate Seoul within minutes, since the South Korean
capital is only 50 km from the border. They don't need a nuke to do
it, they have entrenched artillery and short-range conventional
missiles which would do the job at the push of a button.

If use want to send a message to North Korea, use Western Union, not a
B52.

Here's one:

http://www.boston.com/news/world/asi...er_to_sout h/

300,000-500,000 shells per hour.

I've seen this cited elsewhere. I don't have primary documentation on this
though.

--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.

"OM" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 5 Apr 2009 19:07:29 -0700 (PDT), Neil Fraser
wrote:

No, North Korea is completely invulnerable to attack. If provoked
they could annihilate Seoul within minutes, since the South Korean
capital is only 50 km from the border. They don't need a nuke to do
it, they have entrenched artillery and short-range conventional
missiles which would do the job at the push of a button.

...Do we have a cite somewhere with the estimates of just how much
artillery the NK's have pointed at Seoul?

OM

--

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