NK rocket fails to orbit satellite

"OM" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 5 Apr 2009 17:45:52 -0700 (PDT), Neil Fraser
wrote:

The media goes to great pains to state that such a rocket could strike
Hawaii, Alaska and the western US. But surely if it is designed to
reach orbit, it is quite capable of hitting any place on Earth within
its inclination?

...Yes, but the issues is with *what*? The implication is fhat if this
us a Sputnik-class satellite launcher, then the nuclear payload isn't
going to be that big. Secrecy aside, what's the smallest nuke with the
biggest yield that fits within even, say, 2x Sputnik I's size and
weight? We're back again to whether or not we should panic when a
bunch of peasant Commies start lobbing basketballs into orbit.

Which means, of course, that we have a great opportunity to do what we
didn't do the last time this happened, and drop a few nukes of our own
on the Commie *******s...:-P

OM

--

]=====================================[
] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[

===================================

Seek treatment.

Titeotwawki -- mha [sci.space.policy 2009 Apr 05]

Neil Fraser wrote:
On Apr 5, 5:22 am, Pat Flannery wrote:

Sounds like the third stage never separated from stage two:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/7984254.stm


The media goes to great pains to state that such a rocket could strike
Hawaii, Alaska and the western US. But surely if it is designed to
reach orbit, it is quite capable of hitting any place on Earth within
its inclination?

Or are they implying that its payload capacity is too small to orbit a
significant warhead, and its useful military range is much smaller?


That's basicly it, yes.
There's a map of where things came down at he
http://www.armscontrolwonk.com/2242/another-failure

Pat

For the sake of arguement, let's take North Korea at their word and it
is/was a communications satelite. Successful or not, just what
realistic use does NORTH KOREA of all places on the planet have with a
communications satellite that's not cheaper/more effective using
conventional (cheaper) alternatives????

On Apr 5, 7:22*am, Pat Flannery wrote:
Sounds like the third stage never separated from stage two:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/7984254.stm

Pat

Good article. Before the test, I was wondering if the U.S. had
intentions to shoot it down... but since it failed during second
stage, that's really a moot point. I personally see a lot of benefit
to NOT shooting down future missile tests from NK. For one, we get A
LOT of good data from these launches, specifically about their
capabilities. Like the saying goes, keep your friends close, and your
enemies closer...". So long as the trajectories don't pose a danger
to U.S. territory, let them keep tipping their hand to us. More
importantly, it lets us know their payload capabilities and how close
they are to getting a nuke across the pacific.

Secondly, shooting it down would tip our hand and let the rest of the
world know a lot about our missile defense capabilities. Sure, it'd
be awesome to shoot it down, thumb our nose at them, and feel all-
powerful for a short time... until other unfriendly countries realize
our defense system DOES work and they need better countermeasures.

Third, if we tried to shoot it down and we failed, that would
effectively eliminate our system as a deterrent. Then it's back to
mutually assured destruction for the short term.

Dave

wrote:
For the sake of arguement, let's take North Korea at their word and it
is/was a communications satelite. Successful or not, just what
realistic use does NORTH KOREA of all places on the planet have with a
communications satellite that's not cheaper/more effective using
conventional (cheaper) alternatives????


"It's The Kim Jong-il Show! Staring Korea's King Of Comedy For Life, Kim
Jong-il!
(applause)
Hello people... why, I walked into a restaurant today and asked for a
handburger, and that foolish cook gave me a _hamburger_ instead. When I
want meat, I want human meat, not some dirty cow meat.
('Yay, that's what we want too!')
Let's just say there is one less cook in Korea today, and two more
handburgers on the grill!
(laughter...'Go Kim, Go!" )
And my kids... they are no treat either; why yesterday I caught Kim
Jong-nam reading one of those filthy Playboy magazines that some running
dog had smuggled into the country... and he hadn't even intended to let
his old man see it...
('A-w-w-w')
Well, number one son was looking a lot more like number two at that
moment, let me tell you!
(laughter)
Maybe tomorrow there will be two more handburgers on the grill!
('Yay!')
And a couple of foot-longs also!
(Outrageous laughter and applause)" :-)

Pat

Dave wrote:
On Apr 5, 7:22 am, Pat Flannery wrote:

Sounds like the third stage never separated from stage two:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/7984254.stm

Pat


Good article. Before the test, I was wondering if the U.S. had
intentions to shoot it down... but since it failed during second
stage, that's really a moot point. I personally see a lot of benefit
to NOT shooting down future missile tests from NK.


If anyone shoots one down, it will probably be the Japanese.. they are
not at all keen about having these things flying over Japanese territory.
I completly agree with your arguments for not shooting one down.
Considering that the rocket apparently isn't doing what it's supposed to
be doing - assuming the intent really is to launch a satellite, not test
a ICBM - they may end the program fairly shortly out of embarrassment
over its failures.

Pat

OM wrote:

On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 04:18:56 GMT, "Martha Adams"
wrote:

Seek treatment.

...Personal attack, Martha? I'd have expected better of you.

I don't see any 'attack'.

I see someone who cares enough about you to give you good advice.

On Apr 5, 11:37*am, Pat Flannery wrote:
wrote:

This shows the need to reconfigure our approach to space travel.

I wonder why N. Korea claims the satellite is orbiting if its not.

They did that last time also.

I wonder why USA claims the satellite isn't orbiting if it is.

It's not, nor is it playing patriotic music:http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...Rxt19w6MXrTH_B...
If it were doing that, they would give the frequency it was transmitting
on to prove it was in orbit.

Pat

Agreed - but N. Korea did file with the ITU - which has the frequency
- I visited the ITU website to find out what it was, and its orbital
parameters, so I could call a friend of mine who runs a radio
telescope to see if we could pick it up - but ITU wasn't returning
calls, nor did they have the filing online - which is weird since
everyone agrees that N. Korea DID file.

According to World Satellite Launches the earlier launch resulted in
SOMETHING in the orbit they claimed last time - presumably the third
stage. The satellite failed to transmit that time too - after two
orbits. Could the Russians or the US or someone else be sending
powerful lasers to the satellite to disable it? The Russians did that
against US satellites in the 1980s - things could only have gotten
better (or worse?) in the past 30 years.

Its consistent - if the US wishes to make it difficult to use space
launch as a fig leaf for missile development they would not recognize
a satellite and attempt to covertly disable one if it were orbited.
Of course you are now going to tell me that World Satellite Launches
is wrong in their assertion that a third stage is orbiting from the
earlier launch right? lol.

Pat Flannery writes:
"It's The Kim Jong-il Show! Staring Korea's King Of Comedy For Life, Kim
Jong-il!

I can picture this along with a row of white-gloved military drummers to do the
precision rim shots!

Pat thanks, you made my day!

;-)

Dave


(applause)

On Apr 7, 2:10*pm, wrote:
On Apr 5, 11:37*am, Pat Flannery wrote:

wrote:

This shows the need to reconfigure our approach to space travel.

I wonder why N. Korea claims the satellite is orbiting if its not.

They did that last time also.

I wonder why USA claims the satellite isn't orbiting if it is.

It's not, nor is it playing patriotic music:http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...Rxt19w6MXrTH_B...
If it were doing that, they would give the frequency it was transmitting
on to prove it was in orbit.

Pat

Agreed - but N. Korea did file with the ITU - which has the frequency
- I visited the ITU website to find out what it was, and its orbital
parameters, so I could call a friend of mine who runs a radio
telescope to see if we could pick it up - but ITU wasn't returning
calls, nor did they have the filing online - which is weird since
everyone agrees that N. Korea DID file.

According to World Satellite Launches the earlier launch resulted in
SOMETHING in the orbit they claimed last time - presumably the third
stage. *The satellite failed to transmit that time too - after two
orbits. *Could the Russians or the US or someone else be sending
powerful lasers to the satellite to disable it? *The Russians did that
against US satellites in the 1980s - things could only have gotten
better (or worse?) in the past 30 years.

Its consistent - if the US wishes to make it difficult to use space
launch as a fig leaf for missile development they would not recognize
a satellite and attempt to covertly disable one if it were orbited.
Of course you are now going to tell me that World Satellite Launches
is wrong in their assertion that a third stage is orbiting from the
earlier launch right? *lol.

Just leave them alone. Considering what happened to Iraq even after
she followed all the UN resolutions, can you blame North Korea and
Iran for not paying real attention to what the "international
community" says? Only an idiot would listen to the US when essentially
what the US is offering is "it's legal for us to reserve the rights to
fu*k you at any time for any excuse, but you can never develop the
only real deterrent, namely the nuclear weapon, against US military
threat." Saddam was an idiot, he deserved what he got just for being
such an idiot. But I don't think Kim or Iranian leaders are that
stupid, not after what happened to Saddam.