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What the direct/retrograde motion of Venus looks like



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 5th 18, 06:59 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default What the direct/retrograde motion of Venus looks like

http://www.popastro.com/images/plane...ary%202012.jpg
  #2  
Old January 5th 18, 10:23 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default What the direct/retrograde motion of Venus looks like

http://www.popastro.com/images/plane...ary%202012.jpg

The dovetailing between orbital perspectives and timekeeping and specifically proof of the Earth's annual circuit of the Sun is founded on the transition from an evening to a morning appearance of the stars close to the orbital plane or the faster moving Venus and Mercury.

I cannot imagine any adult being unable to make the call on the transition of the stars from an evening to morning appearance due solely to the orbital motion of the Earth. As a location passes through the circle of illumination it sees all objects to the left of the Sun so that when an observer continues to rotate they exit the circle of illumination and see the stars and celestial objects to the right of the Sun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeQwYrfmvoQ&t=30s


How to ignore proof of the Earth's orbital motion while simultaneously ignoring the direct/retrogrades resolution of the faster moving planets along with phases/size increases is delinquency of the highest order in astronomy or any other science.



  #3  
Old January 6th 18, 12:36 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
palsing[_2_]
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Default What the direct/retrograde motion of Venus looks like

On Friday, January 5, 2018 at 9:59:27 AM UTC-8, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
http://www.popastro.com/images/plane...ary%202012.jpg


Just where does one need to be standing to see this particular view?
  #4  
Old January 6th 18, 01:29 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default What the direct/retrograde motion of Venus looks like

On Friday, January 5, 2018 at 11:36:52 PM UTC, palsing wrote:
On Friday, January 5, 2018 at 9:59:27 AM UTC-8, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
http://www.popastro.com/images/plane...ary%202012.jpg


Just where does one need to be standing to see this particular view?



The same place you see the motions of Jupiter's satellites as they run their circuits around their parent planet -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcrBAuLBXag


There are of course notable differences as Venus moves from right to left (direct) from behind the Sun and from left to right between the Earth and the Sun (retrograde). There is no real opposition to the sequence of phases which point to a central/stationary Sun and the smaller/faster circuit of Venus apart from small people who have made astronomy smaller than themselves..

http://www.popastro.com/images/plane...ary%202012.jpg

The header of the image fills in all the information needed in terms of time it took to assemble the montage.


Being the first people who can discern between the imaginary loops of the slower moving planets seen from a moving Earth and the actual loops of the faster moving Venus and Mercury relies on a simple observation which uses the transition of the stars from an evening to morning appearance in setting the Sun up as a central reference.


This is the way direct/retrogrades work and will eventually be taught whereas today it only exists in this much maligned newsgroup.







  #5  
Old January 6th 18, 01:47 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
palsing[_2_]
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Default What the direct/retrograde motion of Venus looks like

On Friday, January 5, 2018 at 4:29:11 PM UTC-8, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
On Friday, January 5, 2018 at 11:36:52 PM UTC, palsing wrote:
On Friday, January 5, 2018 at 9:59:27 AM UTC-8, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
http://www.popastro.com/images/plane...ary%202012.jpg


Just where does one need to be standing to see this particular view?



The same place you see the motions of Jupiter's satellites as they run their circuits around their parent planet -


No, you misunderstand my question; where does one stand to see Venus appear to have the same diameter as the Sun. There is certainly nowhere on Earth that you can stand to see this.
  #6  
Old January 6th 18, 10:31 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default What the direct/retrograde motion of Venus looks like

On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 12:47:07 AM UTC, palsing wrote:
On Friday, January 5, 2018 at 4:29:11 PM UTC-8, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
On Friday, January 5, 2018 at 11:36:52 PM UTC, palsing wrote:
On Friday, January 5, 2018 at 9:59:27 AM UTC-8, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
http://www.popastro.com/images/plane...ary%202012.jpg

Just where does one need to be standing to see this particular view?



The same place you see the motions of Jupiter's satellites as they run their circuits around their parent planet -


No, you misunderstand my question; where does one stand to see Venus appear to have the same diameter as the Sun. There is certainly nowhere on Earth that you can stand to see this.



Notwithstanding that the same question you asked previously was where the observer was standing when he took the picture 'below' the Sun, indicating you were not familiar with the transit from left to right of the Sun or from evening to morning appearance or visa versa.

"But the telescope plainly shows us its horns to be as bounded and distinct as those of the moon, and they are seen to belong to a very large circle, in a ratio almost forty times as great as the same disc when it is beyond the sun, toward the end of its morning appearances.

SAGR. Oh Nicholas Copernicus, what a pleasure it would have been for you to see this part of your system confirmed by so clear an experiment!

SALV. Yes, but how much less would his sublime intellect be celebrated among the learned! For as I said before, we may see that with reason as his guide he resolutely continued to affirm what sensible experience seemed to contradict. I cannot get over my amazement that he was constantly willing to persist in saying that Venus might go around the sun and be more than six times as far from us at one time than at other times as at another, and still look always equal, when it should have appeared forty times larger." Galileo

The direct/retrograde loops of Venus and Mercury eluded the original Sun centered astronomers like Galileo because they didn't make the distinction between the faster moving and slower moving planets seen from a moving Earth and what our motion brings to the observation. There is no illusion in the loops of Venus and Mercury due to the orbital motion of the Earth but as the original heliocentric astronomers were bound to antecedent geocentric observations they couldn't adapt to the partitioning you and everyone else sees now.

Doesn't say much about you or the rest but then again when did something inspiring ever touch your souls.

  #7  
Old January 6th 18, 01:32 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Default What the direct/retrograde motion of Venus looks like

On Friday, January 5, 2018 at 5:47:07 PM UTC-7, palsing wrote:

No, you misunderstand my question; where does one stand to see Venus appear to
have the same diameter as the Sun. There is certainly nowhere on Earth that
you can stand to see this.


Looking at the image in question, Venus on the far side of the Sun is too big
for this to be an accurate representation of things as seen from a vantage point
close enough to Venus to make the apparent angular diameters of the two equal
when Venus is nearest the viewpoint.

Hence, the diagram must be regarded as schematic in nature.

John Savard
  #8  
Old January 6th 18, 01:36 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Mike Collins[_4_]
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Default What the direct/retrograde motion of Venus looks like

Gerald Kelleher wrote:
On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 12:47:07 AM UTC, palsing wrote:
On Friday, January 5, 2018 at 4:29:11 PM UTC-8, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
On Friday, January 5, 2018 at 11:36:52 PM UTC, palsing wrote:
On Friday, January 5, 2018 at 9:59:27 AM UTC-8, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
http://www.popastro.com/images/plane...ary%202012.jpg

Just where does one need to be standing to see this particular view?


The same place you see the motions of Jupiter's satellites as they run
their circuits around their parent planet -


No, you misunderstand my question; where does one stand to see Venus
appear to have the same diameter as the Sun. There is certainly nowhere
on Earth that you can stand to see this.



Notwithstanding that the same question you asked previously was where the
observer was standing when he took the picture 'below' the Sun,
indicating you were not familiar with the transit from left to right of
the Sun or from evening to morning appearance or visa versa.

"But the telescope plainly shows us its horns to be as bounded and
distinct as those of the moon, and they are seen to belong to a very
large circle, in a ratio almost forty times as great as the same disc
when it is beyond the sun, toward the end of its morning appearances.

SAGR. Oh Nicholas Copernicus, what a pleasure it would have been for you
to see this part of your system confirmed by so clear an experiment!

SALV. Yes, but how much less would his sublime intellect be celebrated
among the learned! For as I said before, we may see that with reason as
his guide he resolutely continued to affirm what sensible experience
seemed to contradict. I cannot get over my amazement that he was
constantly willing to persist in saying that Venus might go around the
sun and be more than six times as far from us at one time than at other
times as at another, and still look always equal, when it should have
appeared forty times larger." Galileo

The direct/retrograde loops of Venus and Mercury eluded the original Sun
centered astronomers like Galileo because they didn't make the
distinction between the faster moving and slower moving planets seen from
a moving Earth and what our motion brings to the observation. There is no
illusion in the loops of Venus and Mercury due to the orbital motion of
the Earth but as the original heliocentric astronomers were bound to
antecedent geocentric observations they couldn't adapt to the
partitioning you and everyone else sees now.

Doesn't say much about you or the rest but then again when did something
inspiring ever touch your souls.



From Encyclopaedia ,com

“It is interesting to note in passing that Copernicus’ disappointment at
being anticipated by Aristarchus has recently come to light. Copernicus
deliberately suppressed a statement acknowledging his awareness of
Aristarchus’ theory; the statement, deleted from the autograph copy of the
De revolutionibus, appears in a footnote in the Thorn edition (1873) of
that work. Elsewhere Copernicus tells of his search for classical
precedents for his novel ideas about the heavens and of his finding in
Plutarch the views of Philolaus, Heraclides, and Ecphantus; but he omits
mention of the clear statement about Aristarchus’ theory that appears a few
pages earlier. Lastly, Copernicus’ almost certain acquaintance with
Archimedes’ The Sand-Reckoner, the work containing our best account of
Aristarchus’ theory, has recently been pointed out.”

  #9  
Old January 6th 18, 06:43 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Posts: 1,551
Default What the direct/retrograde motion of Venus looks like

People with a genuine attachment to astronomy would have no difficulties with the sequence of images which present a story of a faster moving Venus and how we see it from a slower moving Earth and especially the resolution of direct/retrogrades, not an an illusion as with the slower moving planets, but as an actual loop with phases and size increases guiding the story -

http://www.popastro.com/images/plane...ary%202012.jpg

Using the transition of the stars along the orbital plane from left (evening appearance) to right (morning appearance) due to the orbital motion of the Earth is crucial to set the Sun up as a central reference but first and foremost proves the Earth runs a circuit of the central Sun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeQwYrfmvoQ&t=30s

A teacher instructing students on the two main principles for the motions of Venus and Mercury as seen from a slower moving Earth will be admired for having intelligence and dignity while I have nothing to say about those who would diminish this new insight.

  #10  
Old January 6th 18, 07:50 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
palsing[_2_]
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Posts: 3,068
Default What the direct/retrograde motion of Venus looks like

It is NOT a new insight, except for you. You are at least a century behind.
 




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