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China wants to catch up to US rockets in 2020 and then get nuclearspaceships in 2045



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 18th 17, 09:02 AM posted to sci.space.policy
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Default China wants to catch up to US rockets in 2020 and then get nuclearspaceships in 2045

"China plans a fleet of nuclear carrier rockets and reusable hybrid-power carriers by the
mid-2040s. They will be ready for regular, large scale interplanetary flights, and carrying
out commercial exploration and exploitation of natural resources by the mid-2040s.

China plans to catch up with the United States on conventional rocket technology by
2020.

If Spacex and Elon Musk achieve fully reusable rockets with the Falcon 9 or the BFR in
the 2020-2022 timeframe then China would be 13-15 years behind if they hit their
target for reusable rockets in 2035.

By 2030, China will put astronauts on the moon and bring samples back from Mars."

See:

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/1...s-in-2045.html

  #2  
Old November 18th 17, 11:51 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
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Default China wants to catch up to US rockets in 2020 and then get nuclear spaceships in 2045

wrote:

"China plans a fleet of nuclear carrier rockets and reusable hybrid-power carriers by the
mid-2040s. They will be ready for regular, large scale interplanetary flights, and carrying
out commercial exploration and exploitation of natural resources by the mid-2040s.

China plans to catch up with the United States on conventional rocket technology by
2020.

If Spacex and Elon Musk achieve fully reusable rockets with the Falcon 9 or the BFR in
the 2020-2022 timeframe then China would be 13-15 years behind if they hit their
target for reusable rockets in 2035.

By 2030, China will put astronauts on the moon and bring samples back from Mars."

See:

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/1...s-in-2045.html


China frequently 'plans' things that it just can't execute. They
'planned' to build 20 aircraft carriers in 20 years, too. They built
one.

I don't understand why nuclear thermal rockets are 'necessary'. NASA
says it's to get trip times to Mars down to 3 months or so. SpaceX
plans to do that with conventional rockets, where BFR Spacecraft will
have Mars transit times of around 3 months (because they depart fully
fueled from Earth orbit). Yes, nuclear thermal rockets get you a
higher Isp, but why wait for that? As for nuclear electric, you get a
really high Isp with a really low acceleration. Again, I don't see
the point.


--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw
  #3  
Old November 18th 17, 01:59 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Alain Fournier[_3_]
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Posts: 548
Default China wants to catch up to US rockets in 2020 and then getnuclear spaceships in 2045

On Nov/18/2017 at 5:51 AM, Fred J. McCall wrote :
wrote:

"China plans a fleet of nuclear carrier rockets and reusable hybrid-power carriers by the
mid-2040s. They will be ready for regular, large scale interplanetary flights, and carrying
out commercial exploration and exploitation of natural resources by the mid-2040s.

China plans to catch up with the United States on conventional rocket technology by
2020.

If Spacex and Elon Musk achieve fully reusable rockets with the Falcon 9 or the BFR in
the 2020-2022 timeframe then China would be 13-15 years behind if they hit their
target for reusable rockets in 2035.

By 2030, China will put astronauts on the moon and bring samples back from Mars."

See:

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/1...s-in-2045.html


China frequently 'plans' things that it just can't execute. They
'planned' to build 20 aircraft carriers in 20 years, too. They built
one.

I don't understand why nuclear thermal rockets are 'necessary'.


They are not necessary. Neither are fly-back reusable first stages.
But in the long run, once development costs are paid for, they can
make things cheaper. Once in orbit, high ISP is very useful.


Alain Fournier
  #4  
Old November 18th 17, 11:31 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
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Posts: 10,018
Default China wants to catch up to US rockets in 2020 and then get nuclear spaceships in 2045

Alain Fournier wrote:

On Nov/18/2017 at 5:51 AM, Fred J. McCall wrote :
wrote:

"China plans a fleet of nuclear carrier rockets and reusable hybrid-power carriers by the
mid-2040s. They will be ready for regular, large scale interplanetary flights, and carrying
out commercial exploration and exploitation of natural resources by the mid-2040s.

China plans to catch up with the United States on conventional rocket technology by
2020.

If Spacex and Elon Musk achieve fully reusable rockets with the Falcon 9 or the BFR in
the 2020-2022 timeframe then China would be 13-15 years behind if they hit their
target for reusable rockets in 2035.

By 2030, China will put astronauts on the moon and bring samples back from Mars."

See:

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/1...s-in-2045.html


China frequently 'plans' things that it just can't execute. They
'planned' to build 20 aircraft carriers in 20 years, too. They built
one.

I don't understand why nuclear thermal rockets are 'necessary'.


They are not necessary. Neither are fly-back reusable first stages.
But in the long run, once development costs are paid for, they can
make things cheaper. Once in orbit, high ISP is very useful.


You misunderstand me. NASA has claimed that they are NECESSARY to get
fast trip times and that's how they're justifying funding. It's a
lie.


--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw
  #5  
Old November 19th 17, 03:37 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley[_6_]
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Posts: 2,307
Default China wants to catch up to US rockets in 2020 and then get nuclear spaceships in 2045

In article ,
says...
See:

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/1...s-in-2045.html


China frequently 'plans' things that it just can't execute. They
'planned' to build 20 aircraft carriers in 20 years, too. They built
one.

I don't understand why nuclear thermal rockets are 'necessary'.


They are not necessary. Neither are fly-back reusable first stages.
But in the long run, once development costs are paid for, they can
make things cheaper. Once in orbit, high ISP is very useful.


You misunderstand me. NASA has claimed that they are NECESSARY to get
fast trip times and that's how they're justifying funding. It's a
lie.


Agreed. All you really need is "cheap access to space", then you can
launch as much LOX/methane and/or LOX/hydrogen propellant to achieve the
delta-V necessary to make the mission "fast" (whatever that means).

Rather than throwing multi-billions of dollars down the rat-hole of SLS
funding, it would be more efficient to fund "commercial HLV" with down-
selects to three and eventually two providers. With the current trends
in the industry, no doubt at least one of those providers would
incorporate reuse of at least the first stage.

Instead, SLS will reuse absolutely nothing. With likely more than $1
billion dollars of hardware wasted on each and every flight, the program
is a complete economic disaster. It's from this (dismal) point of view
that some people at NASA reason that nuclear propulsion is "necessary"
for a trip to Mars. But, when you start with the wrong assumptions, you
arrive at the wrong conclusions.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.
  #6  
Old November 19th 17, 08:50 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Greg \(Strider\) Moore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 752
Default China wants to catch up to US rockets in 2020 and then get nuclear spaceships in 2045

"Jeff Findley" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...
See:

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/1...s-in-2045.html


China frequently 'plans' things that it just can't execute. They
'planned' to build 20 aircraft carriers in 20 years, too. They built
one.

I don't understand why nuclear thermal rockets are 'necessary'.


They are not necessary. Neither are fly-back reusable first stages.
But in the long run, once development costs are paid for, they can
make things cheaper. Once in orbit, high ISP is very useful.


You misunderstand me. NASA has claimed that they are NECESSARY to get
fast trip times and that's how they're justifying funding. It's a
lie.


Agreed. All you really need is "cheap access to space", then you can
launch as much LOX/methane and/or LOX/hydrogen propellant to achieve the
delta-V necessary to make the mission "fast" (whatever that means).


Yeah, all this "we have to study more and more" etc is really BS.

Getting to Mars ultimately comes down to mass. The more mass you can throw
at the problem, the easier it becomes.

And SpaceX is certainly making it a lot easier to throw mass at the problem.

Even w/o BFR, Falcon Heavy is promising to throw a lot more mass to orbit at
a lower cost than SLS ever will.

I'm betting on the Heavy or BFR long before SLS.

Rather than throwing multi-billions of dollars down the rat-hole of SLS
funding, it would be more efficient to fund "commercial HLV" with down-
selects to three and eventually two providers. With the current trends
in the industry, no doubt at least one of those providers would
incorporate reuse of at least the first stage.

Instead, SLS will reuse absolutely nothing. With likely more than $1
billion dollars of hardware wasted on each and every flight, the program
is a complete economic disaster. It's from this (dismal) point of view
that some people at NASA reason that nuclear propulsion is "necessary"
for a trip to Mars. But, when you start with the wrong assumptions, you
arrive at the wrong conclusions.

Jeff


--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net
IT Disaster Response -
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