Fate of the outer planets as the Sun enters red giant phase

On Oct 9, 12:57 am, wrote:
But your attempt to steer the thread onto another question is not relevant
to the OP question. See

I-J Sackmann, A I Boothroyd, and K E Kraemer, Astrophysical Journal vol 418,
p. 457, 1993. Essentially what they predict is that the Sun will lose mass
via an increase in the solar wind as it evolves into a red giant. Enough
mass will be lost eventually to reduce the Sun to about 0.54 of its present
mass. Although the Sun's radius will reach 0.99 AU (Earth's present orbital
mean distance is by definition 1.00 AU), it will have lost so much mass
that, in accord with Newtonian gravitation and Kepler's laws, Venus will
have moved outwards to 1.22 AU and Earth itself to 1.69 AU. Thus neither
planet will experience engulfment, although both will get pretty
hot--probably enough to melt the surface rocks, possibly enough to vaporize
the planets. (There are still some uncertainties in the data used in their
calculations.)

All of this lies about 7.5 billion years in the future.

Some of these calculations may have been slightly modified by later work.

I understand there is a Sky & Telescope article on this subject:

Laughlin,G.P., From Here to Eternity: The Fate of the Sun and the Earth, v.
112, p 32, June 2007 but I haven't got it available here.

That's quite interesting but my question pertains to the fate of the
outer planets-Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune.

Basically will they stay intact or will (especially for Jupiter as
it's the closest to the sun) as the Sun's luminosity increases and its
mass loss due dramatically increased solar wind and coronal mass
ejections. Strip most if not all their atmospheres off essentially
leaving their rocky cores behind. Would Jupiter's core be big enough
to retain an atmosphere consisting of the remaining heavier gases
(such as nitrogen, carbon dioxide, methane, ammonia and inert gases),
with the hydrogen and helium preferentially stripped from their
atmospheres. Although as a fraction the gases(excluding hydrogen and
helium) in Jupiter's atmosphere for instance only make a tiny
proportion of it, but in absolute terms must be greater than Earth's
atmospheric mass.

Scrumpy.

e

It's the fairly sudden flash-over or transition from red giant to
white dwarf that's going to push hardest on planets and otherwise
cause the most loss of tidal radius.

Once again; Sirius B.

The relatively nearby event of a Sirius B flash-over was most likely
of what became Earth's environmental demise to our dinosaurs.

~ BG

On Oct 5, 9:06 pm, wrote:
On a number of documentaries (such as NG's "Naked Science" series) and
in text books it discusses in some detail the fate of the inner
planets (Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars) as the Sun enters the final
stages of its existence and swells into a red giant. What i'd like to
know is what will happen to the outer planets (Jupiter, Saturn,
Uranus, Neptune and Pluto), I know they'll start to migrate outward as
the Sun sheds mass and weakens its gravity well (I believe it swelling
up to a red giant will have some effect as this will effect the
distribution of its remaining mass). Will the massive increase in
solar luminosity and solar wind start stripping off the gas giants
atmospheres (which should be exponential as the further mass is lost
the weaker their gravity and hence the grip on the gaseous envelopes
plus the effects of increased surface to area ratio allowing any
remaining heat of formation to escape and further swell their
atmospheres).

It's the fairly sudden flash-over or transition from whatever red
giant phase to white dwarf that's by far going to push hardest on
planets and otherwise cause the most sudden loss of tidal radius.

Once again; Sirius B.

The relatively nearby event of a Sirius B flash-over was most likely
of what became Earth's environmental demise to our dinosaurs. Not
only via radiation but eventually due to whatever physical gauntlet
was incoming from the Sirius B inventory of planets, moons and icy
Oort cloud debris.

~ BG

"BradGuth" wrote in message
...
On Oct 8, 10:10 am, "Mike Dworetsky"
wrote:
"BradGuth" wrote in message

...



On Oct 7, 11:36 pm, "Mike Dworetsky"
wrote:
"BradGuth" wrote in message

...

On Oct 6, 12:36 am, "Mike Dworetsky"
wrote:
wrote in message

...

On a number of documentaries (such as NG's "Naked Science"
series)
and
in text books it discusses in some detail the fate of the inner
planets (Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars) as the Sun enters the
final
stages of its existence and swells into a red giant. What i'd
like
to
know is what will happen to the outer planets (Jupiter, Saturn,
Uranus, Neptune and Pluto), I know they'll start to migrate
outward
as
the Sun sheds mass and weakens its gravity well (I believe it
swelling
up to a red giant will have some effect as this will effect the
distribution of its remaining mass). Will the massive increase in
solar luminosity and solar wind start stripping off the gas
giants
atmospheres (which should be exponential as the further mass is
lost
the weaker their gravity and hence the grip on the gaseous
envelopes
plus the effects of increased surface to area ratio allowing any
remaining heat of formation to escape and further swell their
atmospheres).

Interesting questions.

The expansion itself will not have any effect on solar gravity.
But
mass
loss, as you rightly say, will have this effect. I'm not sure
exactly
how
much the Sun's luminosity will increase at this stage but at times
I
think
it will reach about 1000 times current luminosity (I could look it
up
but
I'm in a hurry). Even with larger orbits, Jupiter and Saturn will
get
pretty warm, warmer than Earth now. Ice moons may vaporize.
Though
there
will be an increase in atmospheric loss, I doubt the giant planets
will
lose
all their atmospheres.

One claim that I think is justified, is that conditions on Titan
will
become, briefly (cosmically speaking), ideal for development of
life
in
terms of temperature and chemistry.

--
Mike Dworetsky

(Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)

The 7x1x solar mass flashover of Sirius B becoming a white dwarf
seems good enough. Why don't you supercomputer simulate it for us?

~ BG

Why bother? It's been done for a 1-solar mass star of solar
composition...

--
Mike Dworetsky

(Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)

What a pathetic cop out.

Idiot. Troll. Why should I have to do "supercomputer simulations" just
to
make you "happy"?

My goodness, Sirius B as having recently gone from a 7x solar mass
down to a 1x and having lost its planets is really ****ing you off.
Why is that?


No it isn't. It's simply irrelevant to the question in this thread which I
am answering. But perhaps you could explain what evidence there is that
Sirius B (or Sirius A for that matter) ever had any planets at all? None,
of course.


Why don't you want to know of how and perhaps when some of our planets
and moons came to past?

They were created in a binary system with two stars far more massive that
the Sun? Who'd a thunk it? Why would I want to answer that question
when
the OP asked a perfectly reasonable one that I did answer? Just to
please a
troll?

The question was about how giant planets might end up, not how they
originated. Reading comprehension is not your strong point.

And where exactly do you think some of those Sirius B planets went?

There is no evidence that they every existed. Sirius B was originally the
more massive star of a binary system. When it evolved into a red giant, it
lost its mass to the entire system. Relatively little if any mass was
transferred to Sirius A because the two stars were too far apart (see
reference that I quote below).


What's the matter this time?

Well, you are a famous net-loon, for one thing. But I digress.

Digress all you like, but meanwhile those once upon a time planets of
Sirius B went somewhere, and lo and behold the nearest other somewhere
was our passive solar system.

This is complete lunacy and is an example of why you are considered a
net-loon. Sirius B underwent evolution many millions of years ago. At that
time the pair was nowhere near our system. Its current distance is 2.64
parsec. The system radial velocity is -7.6 km/s. 1 km/s is near enough 1
pc/10^6 yr for estimation purposes. Even 1 million years ago its distance
was at least 10.2 pc, not taking into account transverse space velocity.

In a recent paper, Liebert et al have analyzed the Sirius system and quote
the derived cooling age of Sirius B to be 124 million years (they quoted
other authors for this figure, and you can chase the references yourself)
and an initial mass of 5 Msun. This was so long ago that we have no easy
way to say where in the galaxy Sirius was relative to the Sun, other than
that is was likely a very long way off (thousands of parsecs).

Liebert et al, Astrophys. J., 630, L69-L72 (2005) [paper freely available
through the ADS system].


Why do you think our interstellar association with Sirius is not in
any way connected with ice ages or global warming (ice age thawing)
cycles?


Because Sirius was much further away from us than it is now. Even at its
current distance it would have no effect on Earth whatsoever. Sirius B was
too small to become a supernova, and went through the AGB stage of
evolution, throwing off mass. We have no interstellar association with
Sirius.


Isn't a seriously nearby 7x solar mass star that's flashing itself
down to a 1x solar mass white dwarf, good enough?

That's fine. Why don't YOU run the simulation on a supercomputer, then
report back to us after you have submitted the paper to a peer-reviewed
journal and had it accepted?

I'd love to do just that. Of course it's obvious that you'd never
care to help others, not even Einstein.


If he were alive, I'd be delighted to help Einstein. But you can bugger
off.


But your attempt to steer the thread onto another question is not
relevant
to the OP question. See

I-J Sackmann, A I Boothroyd, and K E Kraemer, Astrophysical Journal vol
418,
p. 457, 1993. Essentially what they predict is that the Sun will lose
mass
via an increase in the solar wind as it evolves into a red giant. Enough
mass will be lost eventually to reduce the Sun to about 0.54 of its
present
mass. Although the Sun's radius will reach 0.99 AU (Earth's present
orbital
mean distance is by definition 1.00 AU), it will have lost so much mass
that, in accord with Newtonian gravitation and Kepler's laws, Venus will
have moved outwards to 1.22 AU and Earth itself to 1.69 AU. Thus neither
planet will experience engulfment, although both will get pretty
hot--probably enough to melt the surface rocks, possibly enough to
vaporize
the planets. (There are still some uncertainties in the data used in
their
calculations.)

All of this lies about 7.5 billion years in the future.

Some of these calculations may have been slightly modified by later work.

I understand there is a Sky & Telescope article on this subject:

Laughlin,G.P., From Here to Eternity: The Fate of the Sun and the Earth,
v.
112, p 32, June 2007 but I haven't got it available here.

--
Mike Dworetsky

I happen to agree that Earth at 1.7 AU will not have come to its final
demise simply because our sun eventually goes into its red giant
phase.

Then why not use Sirius B as a perfectly good and nearby example of
what happens when a big star with any number of planets goes red
giant, and then rather quickly flashes itself over into a little white
dwarf.

Sirius B started out with 5 times the mass of our Sun. I'll repeat what I
said--you have no evidence that it ever had planets. If you can quote some
peer-reviewed study that says it did, then please go ahead.

Seems to me that any 7x that's going down to 1x tidal radius is going
to have problems holding onto whatever planets that had been gradually
allowed to orbit further away, especially when it quickly flashes over
from the red giant into that little 1x white dwarf.

Maybe, but you have no evidence that it ever had planets. And you have an
incorrect or obsolete value for the initial mass of Sirius B.

--
Mike Dworetsky

(Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)

"BradGuth" wrote in message
...
On Oct 5, 9:06 pm, wrote:
On a number of documentaries (such as NG's "Naked Science" series) and
in text books it discusses in some detail the fate of the inner
planets (Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars) as the Sun enters the final
stages of its existence and swells into a red giant. What i'd like to
know is what will happen to the outer planets (Jupiter, Saturn,
Uranus, Neptune and Pluto), I know they'll start to migrate outward as
the Sun sheds mass and weakens its gravity well (I believe it swelling
up to a red giant will have some effect as this will effect the
distribution of its remaining mass). Will the massive increase in
solar luminosity and solar wind start stripping off the gas giants
atmospheres (which should be exponential as the further mass is lost
the weaker their gravity and hence the grip on the gaseous envelopes
plus the effects of increased surface to area ratio allowing any
remaining heat of formation to escape and further swell their
atmospheres).

It's the fairly sudden flash-over or transition from whatever red
giant phase to white dwarf that's by far going to push hardest on
planets and otherwise cause the most sudden loss of tidal radius.

Once again; Sirius B.

The relatively nearby event of a Sirius B flash-over was most likely
of what became Earth's environmental demise to our dinosaurs. Not
only via radiation but eventually due to whatever physical gauntlet
was incoming from the Sirius B inventory of planets, moons and icy
Oort cloud debris.

~ BG

As I demonstrate from peer-reviewed literature in another post today, this
is complete fantasy on your part. The age of Sirius B from the WD cooling
time puts its formation much further back in time than 65 million years.
And that long ago, Sirius was probably thousands of light years away.

--
Mike Dworetsky

(Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)

"Mike Dworetsky" wrote in message
...
"BradGuth" wrote in message
...
On Oct 5, 9:06 pm, wrote:

On a number of documentaries (such as NG's "Naked Science" series) and
in text books it discusses in some detail the fate of the inner
planets (Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars) as the Sun enters the final
stages of its existence and swells into a red giant. What i'd like to
know is what will happen to the outer planets (Jupiter, Saturn,
Uranus, Neptune and Pluto), I know they'll start to migrate outward as
the Sun sheds mass and weakens its gravity well (I believe it swelling
up to a red giant will have some effect as this will effect the
distribution of its remaining mass). Will the massive increase in
solar luminosity and solar wind start stripping off the gas giants
atmospheres (which should be exponential as the further mass is lost
the weaker their gravity and hence the grip on the gaseous envelopes
plus the effects of increased surface to area ratio allowing any
remaining heat of formation to escape and further swell their
atmospheres).

It's the fairly sudden flash-over or transition from whatever red
giant phase to white dwarf that's by far going to push hardest on
planets and otherwise cause the most sudden loss of tidal radius.

Once again; Sirius B.

The relatively nearby event of a Sirius B flash-over was most likely
of what became Earth's environmental demise to our dinosaurs. Not
only via radiation but eventually due to whatever physical gauntlet
was incoming from the Sirius B inventory of planets, moons and icy
Oort cloud debris.

As I demonstrate from peer-reviewed literature in another post today, this
is complete fantasy on your part. The age of Sirius B from the WD cooling
time puts its formation much further back in time than 65 million years.
And that long ago, Sirius was probably thousands of light years away.

Why would you think that last part, Mike? That the
star, Sirius, was probably thousands of light years
away 65 MY ago?

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine Ellsworth

P.S.: http://yummycake.secretsgolden.com
http://garden-of-ebooks.blogspot.com
http://painellsworth.net

On Oct 9, 9:09 am, "Mike Dworetsky"
wrote:
"BradGuth" wrote in message

...



On Oct 5, 9:06 pm, wrote:
On a number of documentaries (such as NG's "Naked Science" series) and
in text books it discusses in some detail the fate of the inner
planets (Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars) as the Sun enters the final
stages of its existence and swells into a red giant. What i'd like to
know is what will happen to the outer planets (Jupiter, Saturn,
Uranus, Neptune and Pluto), I know they'll start to migrate outward as
the Sun sheds mass and weakens its gravity well (I believe it swelling
up to a red giant will have some effect as this will effect the
distribution of its remaining mass). Will the massive increase in
solar luminosity and solar wind start stripping off the gas giants
atmospheres (which should be exponential as the further mass is lost
the weaker their gravity and hence the grip on the gaseous envelopes
plus the effects of increased surface to area ratio allowing any
remaining heat of formation to escape and further swell their
atmospheres).

It's the fairly sudden flash-over or transition from whatever red
giant phase to white dwarf that's by far going to push hardest on
planets and otherwise cause the most sudden loss of tidal radius.

Once again; Sirius B.

The relatively nearby event of a Sirius B flash-over was most likely
of what became Earth's environmental demise to our dinosaurs. Not
only via radiation but eventually due to whatever physical gauntlet
was incoming from the Sirius B inventory of planets, moons and icy
Oort cloud debris.

~ BG

As I demonstrate from peer-reviewed literature in another post today, this
is complete fantasy on your part. The age of Sirius B from the WD cooling
time puts its formation much further back in time than 65 million years.
And that long ago, Sirius was probably thousands of light years away.

--
Mike Dworetsky

(Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)

Actually we were likely cruising very close to Sirius, as we have done
each 100,000 and some odd years (more frequently as we go back in
time).

btw, stars have been known to collide with one another, meaning that
Sirius may have been a trinary or perhaps even a quad star system that
we're still a part of.

What if anything would happen if even a Jupiter mass collided with our
sun?

~ BG

"Painius" wrote in message
...
"Mike Dworetsky" wrote in message
...
"BradGuth" wrote in message
...
On Oct 5, 9:06 pm, wrote:

On a number of documentaries (such as NG's "Naked Science" series) and
in text books it discusses in some detail the fate of the inner
planets (Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars) as the Sun enters the final
stages of its existence and swells into a red giant. What i'd like to
know is what will happen to the outer planets (Jupiter, Saturn,
Uranus, Neptune and Pluto), I know they'll start to migrate outward as
the Sun sheds mass and weakens its gravity well (I believe it swelling
up to a red giant will have some effect as this will effect the
distribution of its remaining mass). Will the massive increase in
solar luminosity and solar wind start stripping off the gas giants
atmospheres (which should be exponential as the further mass is lost
the weaker their gravity and hence the grip on the gaseous envelopes
plus the effects of increased surface to area ratio allowing any
remaining heat of formation to escape and further swell their
atmospheres).

It's the fairly sudden flash-over or transition from whatever red
giant phase to white dwarf that's by far going to push hardest on
planets and otherwise cause the most sudden loss of tidal radius.

Once again; Sirius B.

The relatively nearby event of a Sirius B flash-over was most likely
of what became Earth's environmental demise to our dinosaurs. Not
only via radiation but eventually due to whatever physical gauntlet
was incoming from the Sirius B inventory of planets, moons and icy
Oort cloud debris.

As I demonstrate from peer-reviewed literature in another post today,
this is complete fantasy on your part. The age of Sirius B from the WD
cooling time puts its formation much further back in time than 65 million
years. And that long ago, Sirius was probably thousands of light years
away.

Why would you think that last part, Mike? That the
star, Sirius, was probably thousands of light years
away 65 MY ago?


The evolution of Sirius B into its white dwarf stage was about 125 MY ago.
The relative speed of Sirius system and Sun is more than 8 km/sec
(approaching). 1 km/sec is ~ 1 parsec/megayear.

So Sirius must have been a long way off that long ago, as its current
distance is less than 3 pc. Take 125MY, multiply by 8, and you get
something like 1kpc as the likely minimum distance of Sirius when B turned
into a WD. Any allowance for transverse V would increase this estimate.
1kpc ~ 3.26 kLY. Hence "thousands of light years".

You can't really do this as a linear extrapolation because both stars are in
(curved, unclosed) orbits around the centre of the galaxy, but they are
clearly unlikely to have ever been as close to one another as they are now.



--
Mike Dworetsky

(Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)

In article ,
Mike Dworetsky wrote:

1 km/sec is ~ 1 parsec/megayear.

Indeed !!!! 1 km/s turns out to be 1.022 parsec/megayear so the agreement
was really close!



--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stjarnhimlen dot se
WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/

On Oct 9, 9:04 am, "Mike Dworetsky"
wrote:
"BradGuth" wrote in message

My goodness, Sirius B as having recently gone from a 7x solar mass
down to a 1x and having lost its planets is really ****ing you off.
Why is that?

No it isn't. It's simply irrelevant to the question in this thread which I
am answering. But perhaps you could explain what evidence there is that
Sirius B (or Sirius A for that matter) ever had any planets at all? None,
of course.

And your evidence that it didn't have planets or any Oort cloud
is ?????????


Why don't you want to know of how and perhaps when some of our planets
and moons came to past?

They were created in a binary system with two stars far more massive that
the Sun? Who'd a thunk it? Why would I want to answer that question
when
the OP asked a perfectly reasonable one that I did answer? Just to
please a
troll?

The question was about how giant planets might end up, not how they
originated. Reading comprehension is not your strong point.

And where exactly do you think some of those Sirius B planets went?

There is no evidence that they every existed. Sirius B was originally the
more massive star of a binary system. When it evolved into a red giant, it
lost its mass to the entire system. Relatively little if any mass was
transferred to Sirius A because the two stars were too far apart (see
reference that I quote below).

Once again, your all-knowing expertise is beyond that of all other
human and machine knowledge, and perhaps then some.

I'd say one solar mass went into Sirius A. Since they were pretty
darn close to one another (much closer to one another than they are
now), why the hell not?


What's the matter this time?

Well, you are a famous net-loon, for one thing. But I digress.

Digress all you like, but meanwhile those once upon a time planets of
Sirius B went somewhere, and lo and behold the nearest other somewhere
was our passive solar system.

This is complete lunacy and is an example of why you are considered a
net-loon. Sirius B underwent evolution many millions of years ago. At that
time the pair was nowhere near our system. Its current distance is 2.64
parsec. The system radial velocity is -7.6 km/s. 1 km/s is near enough 1
pc/10^6 yr for estimation purposes. Even 1 million years ago its distance
was at least 10.2 pc, not taking into account transverse space velocity.

Sirius was more recently reported as by far the reddest and brightest
star (other than Sol) in our sky, and we're not talking about tricks
played by our polluted atmosphere. I tend to favor that we're on an
elliptical trek of perhaps as tight as 10:1, but then I'd need to run
a fully interactive 3D orbital simulator in order to further improve
upon my argument.


In a recent paper, Liebert et al have analyzed the Sirius system and quote
the derived cooling age of Sirius B to be 124 million years (they quoted
other authors for this figure, and you can chase the references yourself)
and an initial mass of 5 Msun. This was so long ago that we have no easy
way to say where in the galaxy Sirius was relative to the Sun, other than
that is was likely a very long way off (thousands of parsecs).

Liebert et al, Astrophys. J., 630, L69-L72 (2005) [paper freely available
through the ADS system].

The flash-over into becoming a little white dwarf probably didn't take
very long, perhaps merely hours or at most a few days, because I'd
doubt it would take a month for that final demise.


Why do you think our interstellar association with Sirius is not in
any way connected with ice ages or global warming (ice age thawing)
cycles?

Because Sirius was much further away from us than it is now. Even at its
current distance it would have no effect on Earth whatsoever. Sirius B was
too small to become a supernova, and went through the AGB stage of
evolution, throwing off mass. We have no interstellar association with
Sirius.

If that's what makes you a happy camper, then so be it. Just don't
let any of those smart 5th graders near any of our supercomputers that
could rather easily run off a few interactive simulations as a class
project.

btw, at 7+ solar mass, Sirius B was one downright impressive star,
especially impressive when we'd been so much closer, not to mention
its impressive red giant phase that would have made it look from Earth
as another small sun might look, except much brighter because of it's
faster and hotter phase was perhaps more of a vibrant yellow if not
greenish.


Isn't a seriously nearby 7x solar mass star that's flashing itself
down to a 1x solar mass white dwarf, good enough?

That's fine. Why don't YOU run the simulation on a supercomputer, then
report back to us after you have submitted the paper to a peer-reviewed
journal and had it accepted?

I'd love to do just that. Of course it's obvious that you'd never
care to help others, not even Einstein.

If he were alive, I'd be delighted to help Einstein. But you can bugger
off.

But you'd treat Einstein like so much ****, because you've already
figured everything out before anyone else, and therefore Einstein
would only have been stealing your research.


But your attempt to steer the thread onto another question is not
relevant
to the OP question. See

I-J Sackmann, A I Boothroyd, and K E Kraemer, Astrophysical Journal vol
418,
p. 457, 1993. Essentially what they predict is that the Sun will lose
mass
via an increase in the solar wind as it evolves into a red giant. Enough
mass will be lost eventually to reduce the Sun to about 0.54 of its
present
mass. Although the Sun's radius will reach 0.99 AU (Earth's present
orbital
mean distance is by definition 1.00 AU), it will have lost so much mass
that, in accord with Newtonian gravitation and Kepler's laws, Venus will
have moved outwards to 1.22 AU and Earth itself to 1.69 AU. Thus neither
planet will experience engulfment, although both will get pretty
hot--probably enough to melt the surface rocks, possibly enough to
vaporize
the planets. (There are still some uncertainties in the data used in
their
calculations.)

All of this lies about 7.5 billion years in the future.

Some of these calculations may have been slightly modified by later work.

I understand there is a Sky & Telescope article on this subject:

Laughlin,G.P., From Here to Eternity: The Fate of the Sun and the Earth,
v.
112, p 32, June 2007 but I haven't got it available here.

--
Mike Dworetsky

I happen to agree that Earth at 1.7 AU will not have come to its final
demise simply because our sun eventually goes into its red giant
phase.

Then why not use Sirius B as a perfectly good and nearby example of
what happens when a big star with any number of planets goes red
giant, and then rather quickly flashes itself over into a little white
dwarf.

Sirius B started out with 5 times the mass of our Sun. I'll repeat what I
said--you have no evidence that it ever had planets. If you can quote some
peer-reviewed study that says it did, then please go ahead.

Sirius B was more likely 7+ times the mass of our sun, but what's a
couple of solar mass units here or there.

Since you can not objectively prove Sirius B never had planets, that
makes us even.


Seems to me that any 7x that's going down to 1x tidal radius is going
to have problems holding onto whatever planets that had been gradually
allowed to orbit further away, especially when it quickly flashes over
from the red giant into that little 1x white dwarf.

Maybe, but you have no evidence that it ever had planets. And you have an
incorrect or obsolete value for the initial mass of Sirius B.

You also have no peer replicated form of objective science or physics
as to the lesser original mass of Sirius B, or the matter of Sirius B
not having its fair share of planets. Thus far we're 1:1, and I'm not
exactly certain that I'm so entirely wrong, or that you're so entirely
correct. Why don't we let a public owned supercomputer help prove
which one of us is most correct?

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG

On Oct 9, 12:44 pm, (Paul Schlyter) wrote:
In article ,

Mike Dworetsky wrote:
1 km/sec is ~ 1 parsec/megayear.

Indeed !!!! 1 km/s turns out to be 1.022 parsec/megayear so the agreement
was really close!

--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stjarnhimlen dot se
WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/

Whatever you do, don't tell our Mike Dworetsky about tidal radius and
otherwise about elliptical stellar trek, and keep those public owned
supercomputers locked up and unplugged.

~ BG