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ion drive as a tunnel boring device?
So, from deep within the peanut gallery come a couple
questions/comments and such that will perhaps sound absurd but if nothing else I suspect the responses it might trigger will be good learning. Just how well might an ion drive work to bore a hole in the ice on say Europa? Would it even be able to get to the bottom of the ice? I suppose that if it could one would have to worry about a blow-out... I was just wondering if after landing something useful could be done with the powerplant that got one to Europa in the first place. Getting more general, is one better-off trying to dig mechanically through the ice? If one were to try to melt through it - say not with the ion drive, but with a probe that is simply sufficiently warmer than the ice and just let gravity pull you in (wouldn't think you need to go very fast) I guess you wouldn't need to worry about the blowout because the ice would reform behind/above the probe as it went. But comms back to the lander and thence Earth might be dodgy through the ice (?) so I guess the probe needs to trail some wires beind it? Say four of them for (supplemental?) power and comms? Pointers to URLs would be great, rick jones -- a wide gulf separates "what if" from "if only" these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com but NOT BOTH... |
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ion drive as a tunnel boring device?
Rick Jones wrote in news:_Vs_b.954$1h5.93
@news.cpqcorp.net: Just how well might an ion drive work to bore a hole in the ice on say Europa? An ion drive can only work in a vacuum. Europan ice might contain materials other than water, and may not be free of solid debris; otherwise a resistive heater from a very ample power supply (nuclear) might work. Perhaps even an RTG, which has ample waste heat. --Damon |
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ion drive as a tunnel boring device?
Damon Hill wrote:
Rick Jones wrote in news:_Vs_b.954$1h5.93 @news.cpqcorp.net: Just how well might an ion drive work to bore a hole in the ice on say Europa? An ion drive can only work in a vacuum. Is there an atmosphere on Europa? I figured that any ice melted/vaporized by the drive exhaust would simply vent into space. I see now with a bit of web searching that there is indeed atmosphere on Europa. So much for that... Europan ice might contain materials other than water, and may not be free of solid debris; otherwise a resistive heater from a very ample power supply (nuclear) might work. Perhaps even an RTG, which has ample waste heat. I'd not considered non-meltable debris in the ice. That is a good point. That would indeed do a number on just melt and drop. I wonder what the chances are of there being such stuff in the ice? rick jones -- Wisdom Teeth are impacted, people are affected by the effects of events. these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com but NOT BOTH... |
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ion drive as a tunnel boring device?
Rick Jones wrote in message ...
Just how well might an ion drive work to bore a hole in the ice on say Europa? Not well. The exhaust doesn't involve a lot of mass. Arguably, Jupiter's radiation belts give an example of the effects of ion drives on the Galilean moons. Getting more general, is one better-off trying to dig mechanically through the ice? Yes, I strongly suspect so. If you've got the kilowatts to operate an ion drive in Jovian space, you've probably got a lot of heat and electricity from a nuclear power supply, which can power a reasonable drill or hot melting surface. Mike Miller, MatE |
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ion drive as a tunnel boring device?
In article ,
Rick Jones wrote: An ion drive can only work in a vacuum. Is there an atmosphere on Europa? I figured that any ice melted/vaporized by the drive exhaust would simply vent into space. I see now with a bit of web searching that there is indeed atmosphere on Europa. So much for that... Europa's atmosphere is much too thin to be a significant issue, actually. But the water vapor boiling off from the bottom of the hole will be coming straight up into the ion engine; it doesn't dissipate into space instantly. Europan ice might contain materials other than water, and may not be free of solid debris... I'd not considered non-meltable debris in the ice. That is a good point. That would indeed do a number on just melt and drop. I wonder what the chances are of there being such stuff in the ice? Probability pretty high, considering things like the assorted colors seen on the surface. -- MOST launched 30 June; science observations running | Henry Spencer since Oct; first surprises seen; papers pending. | |
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ion drive as a tunnel boring device?
Unfortunately, if the ice shifts -- which it may -- those wires are very
likely to break. Communication through that ice is just a really difficult problem no matter how you tackle it. -- MOST launched 30 June; science observations running | Henry Spencer since Oct; first surprises seen; papers pending. | Nawwww..... ultrasonic sound waves should propogate very nicely through Ice......IMHO take care Blll |
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ion drive as a tunnel boring device?
How to keep the drill warm? Friction or ..
Lubrication? At the temps I believe we are talking it will be very cold? Mike Rick Jones wrote: So, from deep within the peanut gallery come a couple questions/comments and such that will perhaps sound absurd but if nothing else I suspect the responses it might trigger will be good learning. Just how well might an ion drive work to bore a hole in the ice on say Europa? Would it even be able to get to the bottom of the ice? I suppose that if it could one would have to worry about a blow-out... I was just wondering if after landing something useful could be done with the powerplant that got one to Europa in the first place. Getting more general, is one better-off trying to dig mechanically through the ice? If one were to try to melt through it - say not with the ion drive, but with a probe that is simply sufficiently warmer than the ice and just let gravity pull you in (wouldn't think you need to go very fast) I guess you wouldn't need to worry about the blowout because the ice would reform behind/above the probe as it went. But comms back to the lander and thence Earth might be dodgy through the ice (?) so I guess the probe needs to trail some wires beind it? Say four of them for (supplemental?) power and comms? Pointers to URLs would be great, rick jones -- a wide gulf separates "what if" from "if only" these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com but NOT BOTH... |
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