Engaging in a discussion

The empirical dominance of astronomy and its foundations in an agenda based on predictions would be hard to pin down for anyone encountering it however ,where the proponents of empiricism are at their weakest, is the Equation of Time which is perhaps the most easily recognizable comment and does refer to a timekeeping facility which is calendar based -


"Absolute time, in astronomy, is distinguished from relative, by the equation of time. For the natural days are truly unequal, though they are commonly considered as equal and used for a measure of time; astronomers correct this inequality for their more accurate deducing of the celestial motions.The necessity of which equation, for determining the times of a phænomenon, is evinced as well from the experiments of the pendulum clock, as by eclipses of the satellites of Jupiter." Newton


Anyone can discuss what the Equation of Time refers to in terms of timekeeping but also the cyclical dynamics which create the reference out of the return of the Sun to noon,or in dynamical terms, the two surface rotations to the central Sun which creates the time inequality from one cycle to the next.

On Sun, 19 Oct 2014 00:33:24 -0700 (PDT), oriel36
wrote this crap:

The empirical dominance of astronomy and its foundations
in an agenda based on predictions would be hard to

You have a way of putting people to sleep.


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There is a lot of propaganda out there regarding the issue of the Equation of Time insofar as that astronomical facility has more to do with timekeeping than an issue of time itself hence the difficulty many have when encountering it as a conjuring trick Newton used rather than a basis for the early 20th century whimsical ideology -

http://science.howstuffworks.com/sci...-dilation1.htm

If a lot of fuss is going to be made about 'genius' and human achievement then it is proper to look at the foundations which began as the 'universal theory of gravitation' and the assertion that the behavior of objects at a human level scale up to celestial motions rather than deal with the dumb notion that the universe changes for an individual if they move faster.

I invite anyone and everyone to put a face on the Equation of Time and even allow it to exist as the idiosyncratic description of absolute/relative time as Newton describes it even though fundamentally the EoT refers to timekeeping an the difference between the natural reference and the human devised cyclical reference.

"Absolute time, in astronomy, is distinguished from relative, by the equation of time. For the natural days are truly unequal, though they are commonly considered as equal and used for a measure of time; astronomers correct this inequality for their more accurate deducing of the celestial motions" Newton

That is not true, the Equation of Time is the average period between successive noon cycles which takes in the entire calendar framework. It is this scaffolding which allows the Ra/Dec guys to predict astronomical events and so on using clocks and the calendar system. It really needs people willing and able to work through all the various complications without prejudice so that astronomy can make a return and those wanting to look at celestial dynamics will have a fresh background to work of.

It is quite a journey for those willing to take it and more than worth any initial effort.

On Sunday, October 19, 2014 12:10:28 PM UTC-6, oriel36 wrote:

I invite anyone and everyone to put a face on the Equation of Time

http://www.quadibloc.com/science/eot.htm

John Savard

Humanity shouldn't have to endure the notion that only a few understand the early 20th century notions based on variations of those absolute/relative distinctions and especially the most well known facility which provides the foundations for timekeeping in tandem with the Lat/Long system. Newton was paraphrasing Huygens in this respect -

" Here take notice, that the Sun or the Earth passes the 12 Zodiacal signs,or makes an entire revolution in the ecliptic in 365 days, 5 hours 49 min. or there about, and that those days, reckon'd from noon to noon, are of different lenghts; as is known to all that are vers'd in Astronomy" Huygens

http://adcs.home.xs4all.nl/Huygens/06/kort-E.html

There is a lot to comment on that statement, not so much when measured against Newton's imitation but with the technical aspects however ,for the purpose here, it is enough to ascertain that indeed when discussing Newton's idiosyncratic expression of the Equation of Time as 'absolute/relative time'. Over the last 15 years or so, people have been able to see that Newton was not defining time but floundering around with the basis of timekeeping -

"Absolute time, in astronomy, is distinguished from relative, by the equation of time. For the natural days are truly unequal, though they are commonly considered as equal and used for a measure of time.The necessity of which equation, for determining the times of a phænomenon, is evinced as well from the experiments of the pendulum clock, as by eclipses of the satellites of Jupiter." Newton

Far removed from the dreariness of voodoo, people today can actually appreciate what they couldn't over a 100 years ago but this is a point of departure for looking at the dynamics behind the variations in the natural noon cycle and from there into a myriad of different topics including a better understanding of the dynamics behind the seasons.

Many people looking out their window,not just stargazers, will have noticed that the leaves are changing color from green to gold,red,orange and other colors, it happens every year as the Earth reaches the same point in its orbit and the dynamics behind the seasonal changes are the same as the ones which create the variations in the natural noon cycle.

It must be great mesmerizing the wider population with nonsensical words when,on the other hand, these new visual narratives can explain why we go through and experience the seasons and where the Equation of Time comes from.

The world is not so cruel nor hard hearted that it would rather not know what exists with all those experiences just to lounge around with meaningless concepts inherited from an age enamored with clocks even though those tools themselves were created out of the Equation of Time and the dynamics behind it. Showing up every day with the hope of encountering a genuine soul with intelligence has now turned into the greatest challenge of all.

oriel36 wrote:
Many people looking out their window,not just stargazers, will have
noticed that the leaves are changing color from green to gold,red,orange
and other colors, it happens every year as the Earth reaches the same
point in its orbit and the dynamics behind the seasonal changes are the
same as the ones which create the variations in the natural noon cycle.

It must be great mesmerizing the wider population with nonsensical words
when,on the other hand, these new visual narratives can explain why we go
through and experience the seasons and where the Equation of Time comes from.

The world is not so cruel nor hard hearted that it would rather not know
what exists with all those experiences just to lounge around with
meaningless concepts inherited from an age enamored with clocks even
though those tools themselves were created out of the Equation of Time
and the dynamics behind it. Showing up every day with the hope of
encountering a genuine soul with intelligence has now turned into the
greatest challenge of all.

Autumn happens twice a year.
There is a Southern hemisphere.

On Monday, October 20, 2014 4:25:44 PM UTC+1, Mike Collins wrote:
oriel36 wrote:

Many people looking out their window,not just stargazers, will have

noticed that the leaves are changing color from green to gold,red,orange

and other colors, it happens every year as the Earth reaches the same

point in its orbit and the dynamics behind the seasonal changes are the

same as the ones which create the variations in the natural noon cycle.



It must be great mesmerizing the wider population with nonsensical words

when,on the other hand, these new visual narratives can explain why we go

through and experience the seasons and where the Equation of Time comes from.



The world is not so cruel nor hard hearted that it would rather not know

what exists with all those experiences just to lounge around with

meaningless concepts inherited from an age enamored with clocks even

though those tools themselves were created out of the Equation of Time

and the dynamics behind it. Showing up every day with the hope of

encountering a genuine soul with intelligence has now turned into the

greatest challenge of all.



Autumn happens twice a year.

There is a Southern hemisphere.

As the leaves start to fall for observers out walking in the countryside there are others on the other side of the Earth watching new leaves appear on the trees and these events represent a specific orbital position of the Earth in space and around the Sun. It takes that spirit inside a person to fill the spectacle with the wonder it deserves and the grand scale of the changing seasons is matched in detail by the daily variations in the natural noon cycle and the underlying dynamical cause of two separate rotations working together.

There are no answers as to why people choose to ignore the surface rotation as a component of the orbital motion of the Earth nor why something as simple as recognizing that Newton is talking about the Equation of Time when he uses phrases like absolute/relative time. People want to know and don't want to know at the same time, just so long as nobody disturbs the sense of what they have of themselves rather than what they perceive of their surroundings whether it is terrestrial or celestial.

You won't be drawn into discussing the hamfisted attempt of Newton to describe the Equation of Time even when such a fuss was made a century ago about absolute/relative time and still is . It is not those who won't or can't but those who can discuss matters of great importance that is most challenging.

oriel36 wrote:
On Monday, October 20, 2014 4:25:44 PM UTC+1, Mike Collins wrote:
oriel36 wrote:

Many people looking out their window,not just stargazers, will have

noticed that the leaves are changing color from green to gold,red,orange

and other colors, it happens every year as the Earth reaches the same

point in its orbit and the dynamics behind the seasonal changes are the

same as the ones which create the variations in the natural noon cycle.



It must be great mesmerizing the wider population with nonsensical words

when,on the other hand, these new visual narratives can explain why we go

through and experience the seasons and where the Equation of Time comes from.



The world is not so cruel nor hard hearted that it would rather not know

what exists with all those experiences just to lounge around with

meaningless concepts inherited from an age enamored with clocks even

though those tools themselves were created out of the Equation of Time

and the dynamics behind it. Showing up every day with the hope of

encountering a genuine soul with intelligence has now turned into the

greatest challenge of all.



Autumn happens twice a year.

There is a Southern hemisphere.

As the leaves start to fall for observers out walking in the countryside
there are others on the other side of the Earth watching new leaves
appear on the trees and these events represent a specific orbital
position of the Earth in space and around the Sun. It takes that spirit
inside a person to fill the spectacle with the wonder it deserves and the
grand scale of the changing seasons is matched in detail by the daily
variations in the natural noon cycle and the underlying dynamical cause
of two separate rotations working together.

There are no answers as to why people choose to ignore the surface
rotation as a component of the orbital motion of the Earth nor why
something as simple as recognizing that Newton is talking about the
Equation of Time when he uses phrases like absolute/relative time. People
want to know and don't want to know at the same time, just so long as
nobody disturbs the sense of what they have of themselves rather than
what they perceive of their surroundings whether it is terrestrial or celestial.

You won't be drawn into discussing the hamfisted attempt of Newton to
describe the Equation of Time even when such a fuss was made a century
ago about absolute/relative time and still is . It is not those who won't
or can't but those who can discuss matters of great importance that is most challenging.

I could be drawn into a discussion but you refuse to answer any questions
so a meaningful discussion is impossible. You need to develop some empathy.

On Mon, 20 Oct 2014 21:23:56 +0000 (UTC), Mike Collins
wrote this crap:

I could be drawn into a discussion but you refuse to answer any questions
so a meaningful discussion is impossible. You need to develop some empathy.

He needs to develop some better sentence patterns.

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power in the universe